I was tired late last night, so perhaps it still does not make much sense. This world and the attitudes have been going on for a very long time (well actually since after WWII) so that will be that. What is happening now? It can be an opinion about the Feds either way, but all the info is really never known, perhaps even by them. The de-value of the dollar is reducing the trade deficit so their goods from China cost more and our goods from the USA start costing less so other foreign Nations will buy more of our goods. People go to the store like Wal-mart and look for the cheapest price a lot instead of buying quality. I like to think of it as my pair of shoes I bought many years ago at Floreshiem (something like that). I paid more for those shoes but those shoes I can still wear. It is like anything else, you get usually what you pay for. But now, it seems that a lot of people can only afford the cheap stuff or may only buy cheap stuff. Others still in this world still make money and never tell you what expensive goods that they do buy. But nonetheless -- if you do not make money, you tend to think more negative about the future perhaps.

Like Dr. Brown stated in his reply -- let's all try and lead productive lives -- and go on (and simply to me he was stating that this is this world and read the lines above again -- it has been going on since the end of WWII).

All I can state is that there are to me errors on the Wikipedia page about John Titor (but the time traveling part is only theory so far - until you actually read the article and understand what the physicists is really stating).

It may not even be that a human can go at angles into a heavy gradiant gravity zone and survive, but that particles can. Right now, even they can not say, and all of it is only theory anyway. Then it takes experimentation and then it takes a very brave person (if time traveling is actually thought of as involving a human traveling that way in the first place) and that is what it may take to "time travel" but really it is crossing over to parallel worldlines.

But again, you can make a difference (just as Titor stated) by really thinking and perhaps being more involved if you want to in any political agenda or endeavor. I can only state that to some people so opinionated that sometimes that is hard to do.

If they can not sell it, then no one will buy it. (sometime else Titor said). But again, if you are selling something, then you are trying to sell it, and if some people want to amuse theirselves (like recent home loans going under with the way that some people think) then they are the ones that made the decision. Do I think that is correct? Not actually, but people fool his/her/spacealien self everyday.

One political party insists that they will fight the world if they have to and hope it never evolves into a N-day, but that has been going on so long with the posturing that I never would relie on anyone telling me a date on if and when it might happen. That has been going on in that fashion ever since the Cuban Missile Crisis (when ? 1962) when I was young.

No one really likes it, and anyone in any Government, would have to know that all can fall apart at any moment. (the world can fall apart any moment). Let's all hope that it does not fall apart, and the world is not really all that insane. It may fall apart, but the world used to actually be worse, when I was young, then the Acting Out More perhaps back then.

Still the Feds are still here to prevent or try to prevent that, and protect the people with what they can. So any News report can bring up emotions, and all of that, but again, you have to understand what it is that the Feds are trying to do. Balance out the Acts that the other Governments are doing -- like China hoarding our dollar and using that as a currency. If the Feds can de-value it and make them sell it, then in the future, our dollar may be worth more because their products are too expensive to buy, and we buy more of our own goods. This all takes time and all the posturing back and forth tries to maintain this worldline from going bonkers at any moment, but it does not and never has "guaranteed it".

Dr. Brown is actually more of a Condensed Matter physicists, and all the some of other physicists write popular books about such things as "Time Travel" and "Parallel Universes" according to what they think that they know now.

It is like reading anything, except if you take college courses to work in that field. Even physicists will not agree, so experiments are needed. Even with Einstein for the next 75 years, people were out to prove his theories were correct or not. Those scientists now have concluded that Einstein's Theories are correct, but then further advanced thought has to also be a concern on what it really means. The same with Quantum Theory. What does it really mean?

So far, those scientists think that singularities will be neutral (in theory) and black holes are negative charge (in theory) and Titor's is stating "positive singularities" which by the way have to be invented or created in a lab, perhaps, or a particle or something found that will even first be considered. The bending of the laser can be as simple (in the car photo example) as the gravity not be as much as some other people would think it would be -- actually Titor stated it was only 2G's which is not enough to bend anything in that car -- given that even the photo is a real photo. All of that, would have to be acheived, and so far only a person can speculate about anything.

This is the seesaw back and forth about this subject. But it takes real science, real math, real experiments and real proof beyond a shadow of a doubt or any theory.

So people will make mistakes, let's all hope it is not a real bad mistake and the future comes along like Titor said, when you are all in the world, and you all can make a difference, beyond working a job, living a life, buying the next toy or not, and anything else -- like thinking and critical thinking about anything that comes along.


Let's have some humor also.

Let me state that it has affected me, and part of that has been my fault.

If anyone is of a certain age, I sure you can find all the political candidates running for President in California -- it was on the News of a website that listed all of them - but again most of them are only registered in California. You would have to be registered in all fifty States to actually have any hope of winning and all the expenses whether given money or anything else.

But liberals or conservatives or whatever name of whatever fad it is nowadays with the older people my age whom I will state that I do not agree with and now they certainly will know it -- that the prejudice and biases and baseless rhetoric that usually stems from them or anyone else:

Why just vote-- you can also register to run!

I am not a politician but in my opinion that is only what some others want in this Country or they will be --- less than concerned if partically good and even worse if you get viewed the wrong way according to them. To me, sorry to say they have no image anymore, and some of them may have never had any image - - they let the world get to them -- they let this Country get to them - they prefer just to be anti-social and call it normal -- I do not -- I also do not expect anyone to bend over backwards or anything else.

So, with that in mind -- anyone like that or anyone who disagrees or anything else -- you can register to run -- but of course - I would not expect much from them - and I certainly would not expect much from you.

I think with that while some people are quiet about what they ever do, and others who seem to want to know everything -- although most people are not political candidates just annoyed with that kind of conversation -- all I can state is:

You Can Register to Run!
Good luck!

Perhaps a Flaming Cross as described seen by the British Army in the book "The Holographic Universe" is something they did not know that they expected to see up in the sky, and as for Islam or the Extremists, perhaps they want to see their Prophet Mohammad chopping off his/her own head up in that virtual reality in the sky of the imagination or insanity or crossed feelings or anything else that politics seem to bring out of people in this World.

I just have not seen anyone else yet bring up any solutions except some slogans again -- called -- Going Green!

Back in the '70's under President Carter there were gas lines and rationed gas -- I wonder what some of these people have been doing for the last 30 or so years --- Going Green! Perhaps they just mean that they should "Glow Green" or whatever color happens when those stupid ideas came out in the Past, like in case of nuclear attack -- You Should Duck -- underneath your Desk!

I bet they do have NBC suits (nuclear- chemical- biological) and gas masks also and many other things -- that some people consider whether they actually would help any Civilians Out or not.

So, anyone can Register to Run -- but I would expect that if you did -- you would meet extreme opposition.

But then, I wonder why they do not see a Flaming Cross in the Sky or anything else, except what they think of his/her self and what it is that they think they are actually selling anymore with either political party. Superbugs and all anymore since the world is what it is lately!

Originally posted by section8citizen

I realize you are saying you have seen nothing in the last 2 years that resembles a "Civil War" but I see the foundation being laid very clearly. All one has to do is look. The dissent is there.

Not only that, think about this for a second: If we do have WW3, our perspective on what started it will be different after the fact than before the fact. Right now we tend not to pay attention to all the minor details of what is happening because we try not to think such a horrific thing could happen. But after a WW3 and when the people of communities from all over the world come together in peace and analyze what started it all, they will look back and recognize all the triggers. So the concept of John Titor thinking that civil war started in 2005 is not hard to believe at all even on our worldline, and even moreso if it was on a different worldline.

I, for one, believe the John Titor story. He didn't come up with some crazy looking futuristic time machine contraption that one would expect to see. If you go to the website it talks about things that are coming true that he claimed, such as fighting cancer with specialized virii. And let's not forget all the work that is going on in the Sandia Labs' Z Machine.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by pjslug]

One could be forgiven for thinking, given my nickname on ATS, that i am a die hard believer in John Titor.

That is not the case. I do not subscribe to outright believing Titor's claims or disbelieving.

What i found fascinating about the words of Titor is, rather impressively, he managed to get both believers, cynics and people in between talking about the issues he discussed.

Considering that his words have led to countless debates by thousands of people to discuss theories of time travel, physics, American Civil Rights, war (to name but a few of the topics) indicates to me that even if not telling the truth about WHO he was, WHAT he did was remarkable and a positive thing.

The fact that discussions of Titor today, years after his emergence on the internet, still arouse such interest and passion (as evidenced by the original poster) is testimony to how remarkable a feat it was.

[edit on 11-11-2007 by the titor experience]

Haven't thought about John Titor in a long time.

His story strangely enough made sense. He layed out the "rules" and painted details that really took everyone by surprise.

Are we all forgetting he made a fool out of Stephen Hawking? Something about micro singularities and event horizons. And he states it so casually, like it's just a fact of life, poor Hawking had to go back and fix his errors.

and that old computer that he needed... I vaguely recall one of the last things he alluded to was why, our world line, didn't experience the wrath of the "Millenium Bug". I think he was trying to say subtlely that he had a hand in fixing our Y2k coding glitch when he went back through time.

Oh and what he said about CERN? Spot on.

Originally posted by SmokingGun420
and that old computer that he needed... I vaguely recall one of the last things he alluded to was why, our world line, didn't experience the wrath of the "Millenium Bug". I think he was trying to say subtlely that he had a hand in fixing our Y2k coding glitch when he went back through time.

1. We fixed our own Y2K situation.
2. If he fixed it he did a crappy job. See 1.

I can't see why 1 computer, even though it could run software written in two languages, would do much good. How many computers are in use today in business and industry.

geemony, you make some great points! I just turned 45 and have seen this progression as well. An 18 yr old just has not lived long enough to appreciate the passing of time, but he will and I'm sure his opinions will evolve as well.

Although I am conservative I can also recognize when something is just wrong. The way the Patriot Act is written is just wrong. The proof is in how many times it has been used to further an agenda that has nothing to do with terrorism. Like I said before, I do see a need for some type of Patriot Act but it needs to be completely rewritten.
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John Titor while a very intelligent person is not IMO from an future. He does make some interesting observations though and believe him or not he did impart some knowledge if you took the time to pay attention.

a few quick points on the american civil war of 2004

JT specifically states it begins in 2004
JT specifically states it involves organized troops engaged in combat
JT specifically states it will be at everyones doorstep by 2008
JT specifically states the spark for the war is monthly waco like events that are covered by the mainstream media like elian gonzales, and these events steadily get worse
JT specifically states the divergence between his original timeline and the one we are on is only 2%

also, those who feel the US is on the verge, or the climate is ripe for a war, please research american history from 1963 to 1973.

If there was no civil war then, there won't be one now

Originally posted by AmoebaSizedThe bending of the laser can be as simple (in the car photo example) as the gravity not be as much as some other people would think it would be -- actually Titor stated it was only 2G's which is not enough to bend anything in that car -- given that even the photo is a real photo.

The bending I'm referring to is of the light path, and not any physical distortion of the car. If the laser beam is bent, then so must be all other light rays traveling through the same curved space in its vicinity. Curved light paths imply optical distortion; the curved space would act as a lens to distort the appearance of the objects behind the laser. But there is no such distortion, except in the laser's beam. Therefore, the picture is a fake. There's no uncertainty whatsoever.


[edit on 15-11-2007 by green dog]

That laser beam is nothing more than a fishing rod and it really bugged me that they spent so many pages talking about lasers and all this complex stuff. I was just lurking at the time but could easily see what it was.

Don't know why I didn't sign upright there but I guess the thread was moving so fast it would have been too late.

The picture or anything else does not make any difference to me. All I can say is that I have been in a clearing out in a Park (forest preserve) looking through a telescope. The night was pitch black and the trees could still be seen although just the outline and like the height from being in the opening field looking at the stars. I see nothing in that picture beyond the passenger door as it is pitch, darker pitch and darker than being in that park that night, beyond that passenger door. That is where the machine is suppose to be. Of course it could be the exposure or anything else like that with the camera, if the picture is a real picture. If someone missed the Civil War of the late '60's and whenever it was, and the LA Riots and anything else going on back then about Vietnam, then why would someone in it (and of course taking Orders) state that 5000 people were shot for Acting Out and getting violent. On a smaller scale was Katrina and the Military showing up there and shooting some people which was on the News. No I do not know, if anything Titor showed is actually what he claimed it is, the supposed time machine pictures or anything else. It seems right now all to be old equipment back from the '60's and '70's in the case of the geiger counter on top of the supposed machine (which may be a mining type of low radiation device someone else thought it was -- from the British Mining Corp. back then or similiar - I would have to look it up on the other forum to actually know what Darby stated for it is there).

I do not know, but I do know what it seems political parties are doing nowadays, how they still act in Congress and how everything else in the world right now is going. That is all I can read is the News, and the bickering about Global Warming, the Sunspot Cycle coming up, and anything else, that may or may not be - as people can not seem to come together on anything nowadays and actually decide what is happening.

I do know how some babyboomers think, and how they Act, and how some others think that this world is heading towards WWIII and how all the posturing from Governments are similiar to the Cold War and how all of it is what it is. When anyone else states that they will take care of it, I can only go by my own personal experience, and if I go by that -- I would say that most of the time -- they won't actually tell you -- that to them -- you do not need to know - and that I find it harder to vote for any political candidate that is running out of either of those two political parties which only they think should exist. How those political Platforms have their own agenda, and the rest of us are kind of dragged along with their type of thinking. I only see where they think that their opinions are better than anyone's elses opinion and how they all decide what is best for you and this Country. (or any other Country in this World). And then, some of these people also have to state how a N-war can happen, and all of that. To me, what they state is that -- they think that they are more important for the most part then others here in the USA -- and like I stated -- although I am not important -- I also think that such personal opinions will not help this Country out or this World. It is a stubborn attitude, and by my personal experience they do not listen or actually see anyone else as important as they are.
I am suppose to be above their personal problems, and in the end, I am the one that is put upon by these others. I do have real reasons and if necessary I may just get as mad as they are or seem to be -- as I was attacked in ths Country and I know there are those who only seek revenge, hate, and spite upon others in this World. I was not in Vietnam, but really, if you do not clean up your own kind some of which were drug-dealers, and you think that everyone may not begin running around with guns and protect theirselves and quit listening to the BS coming out of them or anyone else of these babyboomers I suppose you can vote for them, I was there, I was alive at the time back in the '60's and early '70's, I have proof and witnesses, and I am damn tired of listening to their types of rituals and diatribes they continue to come out with. If anyone wants to be hypnotized, one can do that to his/her self as self-help books are written and there are professionals who work in the psychological field. I keep hearing the same thing -- how they do not need any of it. I really beg to differ on their opinion about that. I know what they are and how they think they can make other people think. If you think God is only in a Church, or you have to pass some test, or actually even listen to any of them, then that is your problem and not mine. I have work to do, as I am not actually really listening to Titor also. But I do read how the world is going on today and on the News, and everything that even is mentioned here on this forum or bought up. And like Will Rogers would say -- "all I know is what I read".
Otherwise I may consider that a computer can be programmed smarter than some of the people that I read about in the News nowadays.

No, the Govenment here in the USA is not perfect. What again is not going to happen is that some Vets coming back from Vietnam, with this Country and its protestors and others who want to Act Out like before back in time, act like Fed Employees because of the way this Government seems to tell them sometimes what to do and what foreign Countries also do. If any Liberals want to continue arguing throught their Acts and the others with their Holier-Than-Thou Attitude want to complain about only what some Americans do, and some people want a different Country to live in with different rules and anything else -- then do not start attacking Civilians in this Country then try and twist things around. Republicans and Democrats you are close to being Fascists, and the rest of us, are not going to put up with your continual self-denial over what it is that you really do, along with the rest of the anarchy going on that some of these people running as candidates still continue to think that the rest of this World would be better off because some of these people think that they are so Grand. Like China, or Russia, or their spys or anything else, or any other crappy Country like Iran, they all are close to being fascists and threaten this world. If Hell is what they all want, then please go quietly back to Hell. God ain't helping at least in my opinion, and this posturing going on is not other people who may end up standing up straight and not putting up with it anymore. I see someone invented a backpack vest for kids that stop bullets for some of this crap going on in the Past, and it is a liner that costs $195 for drive-by fanatics. Fanatics of any Country --- better grow a brain -- a real brain because some people have had it up to their necks, and more Americans may just end up walking around cockier than hell, including some over-rated management and others with their fanatic vision of this World. If there is a God, then He controls this Universe, and none of you humans ever did, and being humble instead of Acting Out is about what better happen also. It may all go to Hell in an instant. The adults should not Act worse then the kids do -- who pick up on it, but do not get to see the other adults helping out more than the negativity heard on any News or even seeing Congress Members on TV with their self-heralding viewpoints coming forth to spew their venom also. If those in Congress continue to think that they also give Orders, they do not. They can't even do what they are suppose to, and they still continue to say it is the will of the American People. They take in only what they want to see and take in, the rest is their Selective Memory and Acts and Thoughts.