Souls: Yes I do feel that immigrants (legal and illegal) at this point have more rights than American citizens.

Dan: You make a good point regarding the Olympics... however a lot of Titor believers would state that he was referring to the Summer Olympics and not the Winter Games. That most people associate the "Olympics" with the Summer games and not the Winter games.

It has always been my belief that a solid argument can be made on BOTH sides of the Olympic prediction and it really comes down to what you want to believe.

Again I am not a believer or a non believer of Titor, I do however think some of what he said holds merit.

I remember reading somewhere that Tennessee and a few other states wanted to do the same thing. I recall a thread here on ATS that discussed it. I am sure a search would find it easily, however I really need to start getting ready for work so I am not going to look for it

Great point though.

Has anybody thought about the paradox's surrounding a time traveler coming back in time and mentioning things that have yet to come before they happened?

I suppose I could go back in time (if it was possible!) and warn people about something that happened - but it wouldn't reverse my timeline, much like the "killing your own grandfather" paradox - apparantly the change would not manifest.

Maybe John Titor split a timeline off when he mentioned the civil war - resulting in a timeline with a bunch of people on ATS watching for a civil war, and anyone else (gov?) that may have been paying attention to it. This would not have been present originally - when the civil war supposedly happened (2005 on Titor's timeline), so who knows what may have "happened" to it?

Also, pretty much everything he said and did (if real) could be applied this way - meaning we can really put no value in his "predictions", or devalue him by "debunking" his claims!

One thing remains, John Titor or not - the world is what you make it.

The entire subject about JT and his non predictions could easily be a way out for him not to lessen the value of his big claim about coming from the future.

At the same time you have people like Nostradamus and Da Vinci that did a really good job in predicting some of the most important events in our timeline. My point being that this entire arguement about not revealing specifics events because some way could alter our present is a non starter, you could easily look at this guys predictions from the past Nostradamus in specific and still nothing is being done to avert some of the disasters that he has predicted.

Add to that, that when he has decided to point some of the events that had happen in his reality, they have not come to pass here it just lessen the validity of his claim.

John Titor's unwillingness to discuss specific events is what gives him away as a fraud in my mind. Yes, some of his predictions are seemingly happening in a broad sense. But those predictions themselves were so broad that that's not hard to see.

You could claim an American Civil War started in 2001 after September 11th, when there was debate over to go into Iraq or not. That's still a major issue, in fact.

We'll have to wait until next year to see if things get violent, I guess...

Originally posted by adjay
Has anybody thought about the paradox's surrounding a time traveler coming back in time and mentioning things that have yet to come before they happened?

This is a good point adjay.

Originally posted by John Titor
30 December 2000 11:47

In trying to imagine a superuniverse with infinite possibilities and worldlines, I think of a room with mirrors on all the walls. You are aware of your captivity but as you look in the distance, you see an infinite number of �yours� in an infinite number of mirrored rooms. The gravity distortion machine allows you to �step� out of your room and into another next to you. The closer you are to your original room, the closer it looks like yours, the farther away, the stranger it looks to you.

Using his logic, our reality would be one of the reflections in that room with the differences dependent on the *temporal divergence.

*

Timetravel_0: For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other teams...things like that. I would guess the temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.

So it's Catch 22!

I think one of the most significant aspects of titor is he claims, in 2036, after a nuclear holocaust, that the polar ice caps are not melting at a faster rate than when he was posting, around 1999



The reason it's significant is the pictures of the polar ice caps melting at a much faster rate came out after he "returned to the future", so he is exposed as a fraud right there.

he also claims the 2002 olympics are the last, and of course, the american civil war of 2004 with organized troops engaged in combat.

He got celebrity status when he apparently predicted cern was planning on creating micro singularities in their LHC collider, the mini black holes that power his delorean.

The thing is, that announcement was rumored on the internet in technical circles before the announcement, so it is certainly plausible that he knew that before he predicted it

he had huge misses on 9/11, katrina, and the tsunami.

The ony reason anyone can believe he is a time traveller from 2036 sent here to pick up an obscure IBM PC (they can time travel, but can't write code ?) is because they want to, for whatever reason.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
he had huge misses on 9/11, katrina, and the tsunami.

Wouldn't these also be specific events that would have violated his rules for disclosing future events?

I think you make a great point about traveling back in time for an IBM CPU... but again. I do not consider myself a believer in Titor or a non believer in Titor. I just think some of the things he said holds some merit.

I believe Titor claimed there would be Civil War/Wars here already.

Now that has not happened, so chalk that up to a miss.

Not taking anything away from the folks involved at Waco, and Ruby Ridge, but those are not Wars at all. Ruby ridge was just a small family, (bless their souls), and Waco I don't know exactly how many people, but they were basically massacred by our government, then set thier place on fire. Branch Davidians, it was more of a cult than anything. No civil Wars there.

I have yet to see any evidence that John titor is anything but a mediocre story teller.

Again extraordinary claims require extraorniary evidence. He has shown us nothing.

I put him about 20 rungs below Billy Meier. At least Meier tried to make some evidence.

Titors Time Machine, was a box on a passenger seat in a car from what I can tell. But again, I can't get past his answering questions with questions, and being able to convienently say i cannot answer that because it can have adverse effects on the future. Pretty nice to have that up your sleeve when the heat get's turned up a bit too much.

His followers can even say well if it didn't happen here, it is probably happening in another timeline. That's another convienent out he leaves himself. Multiple timelines(dimensions?).

I mean his claims are OUTRAGEOUS, I can't believe anyone here would even bite at this junk.

If there is some solid proof, pictures something tangible he brought back from the future perhaps. Video of his Time machine in action, or pictures (not drawings) of the entire thing.

I mean anyone can claim to be a prophet, and make general/vauge statements that can be looked at as semi-accurate no matter what, I mean that's an old parlor trick.

Scum like Sylvia Brown, and whatever that other guys name is, still make money doing it today.

John Titor,

I was wondering if you read the book on him?

Out of the infinite worlds that could be sprouting out of the quantum foam each nanosecond, I can imagine one like his easily. It took a different branch some time ago it seems. His not telling us details could have been for a reason too.

When I read the material, I allowed for some military training he might have had on paradox damage control. (Loose lips sink realitys?)

I thought that knowing could help us avoid such futures, but his already traveling back to this time "thread" from a world already in conflict, would be less useful to us causing undue attention. Too much has transpired already in his time line to be prophetic to ours.

I do not believe in paradox theory. I believe infinite potential makes new branches to the time line constantly, and sometime down range the new time line diverges sometimes greatly in appearance and events .

I think if he was here, he was from a very different time stream. Yet if he goes back before his time lines divergence from ours, I could see how his mission could be successful to get the IBM gear.

As far as time travel as a working theory?, I'll wait to see what comes of the new collider results at Fermi this coming year.

ZG

John Titor discussed a lot of specific events, just the wrong ones