I had some of these same questions these are the answers I came up with.
Originally posted by quixotical
With the idea of Free will:
What about people born in lands from the beginning of human history to the present who have never heard or seen of God as you know. What will be
their fate? Will they by default go to heaven? Will they be reincarnated until they hear the word of GOD?
I am a follower of Jesus, I know how he saved me, and I believe he will save far more people then most know. I don't know how, and don't need to.
Maybe he comes to them in the last second of life. Maybe he is with them their entire life in spirit, putting love in their heart, and at the last
second before they die introduces himself. I don't know. I only know what he did for me, and if he saved me, I am sure he will find a way to save
some of those others. Or so I like to believe.
If they make it to heaven by default how could they have possibly made a choice provided by their free will to choose or deny god?
You may be touching on purgatory. Although I do not see it the way Roman Catholics do. Imagine an in between where people chosen by God have the
opportunity to swirl down in deeper and deeper darkness, or look up and grab the rope that is the savior Jesus Christ. I have lots of opinions on
this place, it seems to be the purification as spoken of, but I do not see the mechanism the same as the Catholic Church. And you did want many
How could that be just or fair to me, if I had the knowledge they do not have, but they were admitted into heaven? Sure you can't be
penalized for what you don't know, but If I have to live this life and go through its trials, why should I be in heaven with some one who got a
freebie? How is that just?
You are not the first to ask this. It is specifically addressed in the bible with the parable of the workers at the vineyard
"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2"When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3"And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place;
4and to those he said, 'You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' And so they went.
5"Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing.
6"And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, 'Why have you been standing here idle all day
7"They said to him, 'Because no one hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too.'
8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to
9"When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius.
10"When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.
11"When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner,
12saying, 'These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the
13"But he answered and said to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?
14'Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
15'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your (G)eye envious because I am generous?'
16"So the last shall be first, and the first last."
It is faith not works. And the gift of salvation is given by him, and all recieve equally his gift, we work not for salvation, but to please one who
loves us so much.
If I am to make a clear choice, it must be an educational one, and a well studied one. Why am I to believe that Christians have it
Well I have two answers, First he showed me who he was, and that is all I need, I don't need to judge others, I am sure Jesus will take care of them,
he took care of me after all.
And this, If you really get to chose a God, I figure it better be the God who teaches Love, and only Love. Jesus Christ of the new testament. If God
was Neutral I would show him he can be better then average by worshiping Love, if he was evil, well we would all be screwed anyway. So logically the
only God who would take care of you and you really would want to be around is the one of perfect love, for me that is my Jesus Christ. Now you may
say, but what about when Christians say this or that. Well that is not how I chose to worship except when I fail.
No Christian has it right, we are all flawed. Don't worship who they tell you Jesus is, pray and make that connection yourself, however they can
tell you of there experiences, and can even teach from there lessons, but run it all through the heart and discernment Jesus gave you.
To further this, how can it be that there are countless denominations of Christianity itself,
As I said, we are all flawed, and read this next bit, it can illuminate that some of sin is what you chose it to be. If you wash your head to give
glory to God he loves it. If you hop on one foot, he loves it. What ever you do, do it with thanks and glory to God. So now you can where a funny
hat, have a necklace, be quiet in church or loud and dance. He doesn't need us to do anything, but he loves when we return his love.
40Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, "(AQ)We are not blind too, are we?"
41Jesus said to them, "(AR)If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, '(AS)We see,' your sin remains.
Paul also speaks about this
1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
What ever you need to be, or do, he will guide you, if you chose to help another he will give you what you need, or if you just chose to sing on
Sunday great, he loves us all, and tries to help us be closer to what he wants from us. Love.
It is almost as if actions are sins when a person believes them to be sins. Adam and eve being naked was not a sin, yet when they realized it was a
sin it became one. Almost as if the shame or guilt is what hides us from God. However this is dangerous doctrine and easily gets spun into there is
no good or evil. But remember we must also obey the law of "love your God, love your neighbor". You might say if we hurt others and are sociopath,
we do not really sin. This is not true, because even a sociopath has some guilt and that guilt leaves him where God can't reach him which is why he
sent his son. We also have to remember we should obey God, or live with him in us. It is clear that when we do good we please God. And he has
written on our hearts what is good so we know what we should do. But in many things, it is just how you chose to worship him, as long as it is with
love. If it is not of love, well then you are misguided, as we all are at times, and I believe he will lead you back, or use where ever you are based
on your faith and willingness to serve.
So if you know God loves you weather you chose to wear a hat or not, then it is not a sin, yet don't wear a hat and get people who do think it is a
sin to follow you and then sin. For this reason many things that under the law of Love are allowed, we still should not do, because we would lead
others who do not understand it is about love to sin because they believe it is about a set of rules.
and most times these people truly believe they are doing right and the other wrong.
Judgement, feeling of superiority, if you have faith, then you can speak of what is wrong for you, and then just say God Bless you to others, that is
how he taught wasn't it. Turn the other check, teach by letting our light shine, not by telling others to turn theirs up. Besides we all screw up
at times, that's why Jesus is hear to forgive us.
why is it that a person born in what Pakistan who grows up around islam, and the only thing he ever hears of Jesus, is through contectual
islamic history, how should he be to blame for not accepting christ?
I believe Christ will find a way to reach him, maybe the last second, maybe in that transition part, I believe that when a Muslim shows love it
pleases God to. However they do not have at there disposal the spiritual power of the holy spirit in the battle of light and dark, so I think it is
tougher sometimes for them.
[edit on 11-11-2007 by Redge777]