One nation under God?, page 1

reply to post by Nostradamouse

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It should be taken out. I'm also a very staunch Christian, but once you've established that theology can creep its way into our political life, you've set the stage for all kinds of bad things happening. Sure, evangelical Christianity is on top right now and there really isn't anything to worry about if you're an evangelical Christian as I am, but what about down the road when ec is not on top anymore? Would you want politics and religion to be intermingled if and when Muslims got in control of the government? I know I sure wouldn't. I say we stick to exactly what the Founding Fathers wanted-religion OUT of politics.

reply to post by mentalempire

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Hmm. I can see what you mean. But remember, the Founding Fathers did include God in the Declaration of Independence.

And when I think of what some representitives in the government try to achieve by eliminating Christianty from public places, and promote tolerance to the point where INTOLERANCE is being created, it fills me with hope that Christianty still has a foothold.

This is my opinion. Take it or leave it.

reply to post by Nostradamouse

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As far as I know, no one's liberty to be a Christian is being impinged under the current system. I do admire how God is included in the Declaration of Independence, but any legal scholar will tell you that the DoI is not a legally binding document-the Constitution is what matters.

reply to post by Nostradamouse

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i'm sorry, but this isn't a christian nation, it's a secular one

and those two words were added to the pledge in 1952, the pledge was written in 1892, why should we keep them?

As a Christian, I feel good that Christianty still has a part to play in America. Removing the 10 Commandments from a Courthouse, or allowing an artist do whatever he wants to a crucifix saddens me.

ok... most of the commandments aren't part of our law system. why are they in the courthose?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
no bearing on law, we have freedom of religion in america

"Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol"
no bearing on law, we have freedom of religion in america

"Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God"
no bearing on law, we have freedom of speech in america

"Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy"
no bearing on law, freedom of religion

"Honor thy Father and Mother"
sorry, honoring isn't a requirement under our laws

"Thou shalt not murder"
oh, there's one.
we had to get to the 6th, but we finally found one

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"
oops, not a law either. grounds for divorce, maybe, but not illegal

"Thou shalt not steal"
another one, 2 for 8 so far

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
only really applies to law if it's on the witness stand or in the media, so 2 1/2 here

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house or wife"
coveting? also not against the law..
though treating women as property is...

so you're 2 1/2 or 3 for 10
sorry, i don't think there's any argument in your favor here.

oh, and the crucifix stuff... it's their property, let them do with it as they wish. if i wish to chop up a piece of wood with a tiny statue attached to it, it's my choice. if i choose to dip it in piss, it's my choice. why should it be a difference if that wood happens to be in the shape of a lowercase t?

But I see hope in the pledge.

a hope for destruction of the first amendment?

i'm sorry, but you're really wrong here. there is no INTOLERANCE to christianity, it's all in your head. they're eliminating RELIGION from government-sanctioned public places, not just christianity.

[edit on 11/9/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Am I the only one that thought the pledge was weird as a child? Here's some background info on the pledge for anyone interested, I didn't know any of this until now.

Wikipedia

The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the popular kid's magazine Youth's Companion by Christian Socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on September 7, 1892. The owners of Youth's Companion were selling flags to schools, and approached Bellamy to write the Pledge for their advertising campaign. It was marketed as a way to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus arriving in the Americas and was first published on the following day.

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, and was seen by some as a call for national unity and wholeness after the divisive Civil War. The pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point. Bellamy designed it to be stated in 15 seconds. He had initially also considered using the words equality and fraternity but decided they were too controversial since many people still opposed equal rights for women and blacks. Bellamy said that the purpose of the pledge was to teach obedience to the state as a virtue.

Now for the "under God" reference...

The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity. Appealing to the authority of Abraham Lincoln, the Knights felt that the words "under God" which were from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address were most appropriate to add to the Pledge. In New York City on April 22, 1951, the Board of Directors of the Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution to amend their recitation of Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of each of the meetings of the 800 Fourth Degree Assemblies of the Knights of Columbus by addition of the words "under God" after the words "one nation." In the following two years, the idea spread throughout Knights of Columbus organizations nationwide.

Side note: As a writer and musician I find it amazing that a single person is capable of crafting a piece that could one day become completely ingrained into popular culture and society. To think that a day of writing, which only produces a three minute song, could set me for the rest of my life, and this guy only had to write a few lines.

reply to post by Nostradamouse

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"One nation under, whoever is in control and has enough power to convince me who and what "God" is, with liberty and justice for all."