Turcios said "No' about it flying over. From the new interviews it seemed clear that this plane was very hard to not notice with the sound and everything else. A plane pulling up to a out-of-sight altitude (on a totally clear day) would be extremely loud. Planes already are extremely loud. You can hear them for miles. I cannot percieve how all of these people could not clearly hear and easily notice a jumbojet still flying beyond the Pentagon. I ask you how many miles away on such a clear day that you would be able to see it?

Where did you get that snazzy geo render? Pretty.

OK, I'm not taking sides here, just looking for information. I sure as hell don't want to be part of the Grand 9/11 Argument.

But if I'm planning this thing, sitting on my can in an air conditioned office reserved for Evil Government Minions, how do I know only four people, most too far away to tell what is going on, are going to be all there is? How can they plan such a thing and not take it into consideration?

I can see it now:

Bertha and Bathsheba Butts drive over from Cleveland to see the sites the evening before. After staying in a Motel 8, they hope into their 1977 Buick convertible with the wire spoke wheels, put the top down, and start cruising the Big City.

Bertha is driving and smoking a Virginia Slim in a holder while her 'fro blows in the wind. Ever since crossing the Potomac, Bathsheba has been filming the sights with her new Sony Camcorder she got for her birthday. Not being students of politics, they don't recognize the big building ahead on the right, but Bathsheba is impressed with it's size.

"Who you 'spose lives in that big old place, Bertha?"

"I ain't got a clue Sis, but get a picture and we'll tell everybody back home we took a tour."

And so the Sony whirs, focusing in on the odd shaped building. At just that moment, our mystery plane flies overhead in front of the car, and hops over the Pentagon without touching it. A second later, as they are almost even with the building, a ball of fire erupts, along with a loud roaring boom.

Bertha, always a fast driver anyway, is startled into stomping the accelerator to the floorboards and dropping here Virginia Slim into her lap, all in the same moment The Buick's V-8 easily carries them beyond the expanding turmoil at a cool 94MPH.

Due to interesting inner city lives, both ladies have learned to never go back to something that could cause trouble. And from what little Bathsheba could see over her broad shoulder as they sped away, this was trouble with a capitol T.

Scared that they might be blamed in some way for an obvious arson job, they find the quickest route out of town, and cut their sight seeing short. Heading straight back to Cleveland, Bertha pushes the Buick, furious over the change in plans and the hole in her new red spandex pants. Since the Buick has a monster CD player, but no radio, they never hear word one of what this day has been about.

Once home, the story is told to Eugen "Big E" Ledbetter, Bertha's on again-off again significant other. He, being at least 4 IQ points brighter than the two sisters combined, immediately realizes that this picture of the plane and the explosion must be worth a weeks worth of his favorite "candy", and promptly relieves the girls of this burden.

Eventually, through a couple of hands, each one progressively smarter than the last, this tape makes the evening news on KRAP-TV live from downtown Cleveland, Ohio on 9/13. Now the cat is out of the bag, and the minions are in deep doo-doo.

Now this is how, as an evil genius, I would have to reason it out and discard this plan for becoming the American Il Duce. I couldn't be sure that this hairbrained idea wouldn't get me a room at Sing Sing. I couldn't be reasonably sure that I could control enough factors with a busy highway full of witnesses. Too much could go wrong for this to be a plan for anyone over Jr High age to hope to pull off.

Just my take so far. I'll read on and hope the plot gets less lame in this B rated re-make.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Turcios said "No' about it flying over. From the new interviews it seemed clear that this plane was very hard to not notice with the sound and everything else. A plane pulling up to a out-of-sight altitude (on a totally clear day) would be extremely loud. Planes already are extremely loud. You can hear them for miles. I cannot percieve how all of these people could not clearly hear and easily notice a jumbojet still flying beyond the Pentagon. I ask you how many miles away on such a clear day that you would be able to see it?

Where did you get that snazzy geo render? Pretty.

I have never said that nobody would notice it.

Only that it would not seem strange in any way since planes are CONSTANTLY flying over the building in a fast and steep ascent every 2 to 4 minutes of every day.

People are quite use to it.

The plane on the APPROACH to the building would seem out of place, obvious, and off the normal course of air traffic.

The plane flying AWAY from the building in a fast ascent over the Potomac would seem quite normal and would be overshadowed by the incredible explosion and massive fireball that would serve as a very effective diversion.

For the few that may have still noticed the plane flying away they had more than one back up story of a "2nd plane" or "2nd jet" that even allegedly "shadowed" the AA jet and flew over the Pentagon immediately after the explosion.

Why do you keep ignoring this fact?

It is a very important part of this deception.

The new evidence we present from our trip this weekend will make this 100% clear.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

The only way that the flyover didn't happen after the pull-up that Robert Turcios saw on the north side is if the plane was disappeared with exotic weaponry of some sort or was a hologram like John Lear suggests.

I don't believe in those theories particularly because of the significant 2nd plane cover story evidence and also because there is no reason to have a hologram "pull up" like Robert Turcios saw.

Good point Craig.

What about the discrepency in time between the 9:31 shown on April Gallops watch and the clock at the helicopter pad and the 9:43 allegedly logged by the tower as the time of the crash of the aircraft they were tracking on radar?

I appreciate your untiring and thorough efforts at finding the truth.

I just checked no less than 4 clocks of mine here now, and although they were all set to the same time a couple of months ago, now there is 17 minutes between the slowest and the fastest. Two were within 3 minutes of each other and within 1 and 2 minutes respectively of the actual time.

The slowest was my PC, the fastest my wall clock, and the two that remained pretty close were my wrist-watch and mobile phone.

Regarding the pull-up after passing the Pentagon - remembering that it was traveling fast over the building, it could climb very rapidly, and if the power was brought to idle, it would be doubtful you'd hear it after a brief moment. They could conceivably pull-up at idle power, bleed off some speed, and join the missed approach for DCA, so they'd look like normal traffic to the casual passer-by. Not sure what the tower would make of it, but I understand they were busy looking at the Pentagon before the tower was cleared (can anyone confirm this?).

[edit on 17-11-2007 by mirageofdeceit]