Dollar Plunges on Chinese Central Bank Comments, page 4
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reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 04:54 PM by West Coast
Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Blaine91555

what made our nations wealth was not the baying power but the manufacturing power and that is already almost none exiting.


You do know, that the US, has been for the past several decades, the leading nation in the world in imports while simultaneously remaining as one of the top three exporters of the world....

Marg, you sir/ma'am, are an isolationist.


[edit on 9-11-2007 by West Coast]


reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 07:16 PM by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by SevenThunders


Bravo, well said! Destroying the Middle class is the same thing as destroying america. It really wasn't that long after we had our Revolution to get out from under the Bank of England that they had their hooks back into us. The Federal Reserve was their Crown Jewel over our freedoms. The ability to print our money. What greater power is there?

Since then they've printed away 98% of its value and they're 'bout done with us.



reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 08:10 PM by West Coast
Originally posted by SevenThunders
Originally posted by West Coast

You do know, that the US, has been for the past several decades, the leading nation in the world in imports while simultaneously remaining as one of the top three exporters of the world....

Marg, you sir/ma'am, are an isolationist.


[edit on 9-11-2007 by West Coast]


Let's employ some basic logic here. Suppose the globalist free traders win and all tariffs are eliminated. Explain to me why the lions share of investment capital and manufacturing will not migrate to the nation who possesses the worst human rights laws, the one with no environmental laws, the nation that employs slave labor, child labor, that has no collective bargaining rights and offers no benefits, vacations even weekends off to their enslaved industrial workers?

I believe China and to some lesser extent India proves my point. Even worse, these nations with the abysmal human rights records and a penchant for slave labor seem to have their military geared up to destroy the West. Now isn't that a lovely combination. Yet our leaders blithely continue to support 'free trade', as though we don't notice that they are basically traitors and working for foreign interests.


India is a democracy, and the most pro-US nation out there. You should not worry about india. However, i understand your fears of communist china and there deplorable human rights record.. But we can only hope that in the not-so-distant future, china will become a full fledged democracy that values individual freedoms and rights. China is slowly moving in this direction. And Free trade is one major reason why. Free trade is also a major reason why the world economy has grown at 5% a year now, as opposed to being under 1% in the 18th century. China, along with the likes of India and much of the developing world, as well as developed, are a big reason for that growth over that time period. Economic growth is exponential and accelerating because of this. So it would seem that better times are ahead of us all, if things keep going down the current path.


reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 08:26 PM by SevenThunders
Originally posted by West Coast
However, i understand your fears of communist china and there deplorable human rights record.. But we can only hope that in the not-so-distant future, china will become a full fledged democracy that values individual freedoms and rights. China is slowly moving in this direction. And Free trade is one major reason why. Free trade is also a major reason why the world economy has grown at 5% a year now, as opposed to being under 1% in the 18th century. China, along with the likes of India and much of the developing world, as well as developed, are a big reason for that growth over that time period. Economic growth is exponential and accelerating because of this. So it would seem that better times are ahead of us all, if things keep going down the current path.


I've heard this argument but I haven't seen any real positive change in the Chinese dictatorship. Christians are still being sent to slave labor camps and dissidents are beaten or tortured. Talk about the Tianiamen square incident and you could be doing hard time. If you look at China right now, they are not really communist any more but more fascistic. They are very nationalistic and have harnessed the engines of capitalism to build up their military.

This also hasn't altered my basic thesis of capital and manufacturing flowing to the most repressive nations. By the way, do you know what China's tariffs are? They have a 30% tariff on all foreign goods. Gee for some reason that hasn't crippled their economy. I'm all for competitive trading. But i'm not for providing unfair trade advantages to terrorist or repressive anti-American countries. I think to be fair we should have a 50% tariff on all goods coming from China. The first 30% matches their tariffs and the next 20% is for their unfair advantage in slave labor and pollution laws.


reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 08:48 PM by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by West Coast




So it would seem that better times are ahead of us all, if things keep going down the current path.


What current path? The DEBT path? We can't pay the interest on our debt. If the next TIC report is like the last one we will be facing the music. Congress can vote for all the debt they want but you can't make China buy it! Matter of fact they've already said they don't want to. That's kinda the article this thread is based on.



reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 09:39 PM by SevenThunders
Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by West Coast




So it would seem that better times are ahead of us all, if things keep going down the current path.


What current path? The DEBT path? We can't pay the interest on our debt. If the next TIC report is like the last one we will be facing the music. Congress can vote for all the debt they want but you can't make China buy it! Matter of fact they've already said they don't want to. That's kinda the article this thread is based on.



They can pay back the debt by making the currency worthless. Here's the plan.
1) Stop deficit spending.
2) Print federal reserve notes to pay all outstanding debt.
3) Call in the national guard to quell unrest as hyperinflation destroys the economy.
4) Don't count on ever being able to borrow money again.

See how simple it is?


reply posted on 10-11-2007 @ 01:17 PM by marg6043
reply to post by West Coast


I beg your pardon, sir, but what isolation has to do with the hard realities of our economic problems in this nation.

A nation can not survive alone on imports if the nation buying power is dying also. Is not corporate American and the elites the ones that are doing the trips to Wal-Mart or the malls looking for goods to buy.

The buying power in this nation resides with the middle class, but the middle class is a dying breed due to outsourcing and debt.

The economy of a nation is not base on how much it can import but also how much exports it does to match and balance.

Right now we have a record deficit trade that can not be ignored alone with our national debt, yes the debt that each America is carrying on their back even before they are born.

Trade in Goods (Imports, Exports and Trade Balance) with China

www.census.gov...

China's Monthly Trade Surplus May Top $30 Billion (Update3)

www.bloomberg.com...

pid=20601087&sid=aEphkFtPDgHc&refer=home

Nobody can denied that our nation is in trouble and that the bailing out is running dry.

Average amount of US companies sold to foreign acquirors per day as reported

www.economyincrisis.org...

OWNERSHIP OF U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUBLIC DEBT
US Treasuries in billions of USD (1)


www.economyincrisis.org...

Percentage of Annual US Consumption
Spent on Imports By Product

www.economyincrisis.org...

FOREIGN OWNERSHIP OF SELECTED U.S. INDUSTRIES


www.economyincrisis.org...

Our nation due to greed has been torn apart and sold out, if you think China is going to be democratic any time soon, you are dreaming meanwhile the Chinese hold Americas economy by the bulls horns and not the other way around.

Sinking Currency, Sinking Country

www.economyincrisis.org...

Debt exceeds disposable income by 30% nationwide

www.economyincrisis.org...


reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:33 AM by Jazzyguy
reply to post by marg6043

Oh dear, oh dear, there's just no way that America can beat China economically at this rate. US is definitely declining and China is definitely rising. At some time, it will reach the point of no return when the US won't be able to take on China and survive the outcome intact.
We'll just have to wait until the next president to see what he or she will do about this. Bush is just too focus on Iraq and Iran right now.

I have restrained myself so far. But now, I have to say, people who underestimate the rising China are fools, especially since the US is not in good shape.


reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 07:29 AM by marg6043
reply to post by Jazzyguy


for a long time I has been telling that China's attacks on the US will not come with military might or power.

But they are becoming smarter and they are using the same tools that American used after WWII without any wars to their road as superpower in the economic arena, this only due to the open doors that our own corporate run government have in their globalization scam that now is draining our nation and one thing they didn't want to do was to control how much outsourcing was to be permitted in the America give away.


reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 10:50 PM by SevenThunders
reply to post by Jazzyguy


Our economy is still larger than China's and we could stop the bleeding dead in it's tracks if we just had leaders who weren't sold out to special interests and actually cared about their constituents. (Some of those special interests are in China by the way.) Here's a simple plant to fix the whole mess.

1) Abolish the federal reserve
2) Have congress issue a new currency backed by some commodity or basket of commodities.
3) Slap a 50% tariff on all Chinese imports.
4) Stop all deficit spending (ie stay in budget)

Since we import an awful lot of Chinese stuff this would raise needed capital for the government to retire it's debt. The extra tariff income could also be used to lower taxes for small busineses here in the US. That would start bringing manufacturing and other businesess back to the US and in fact would be a big damper on China Corp. Maybe they'd have to cut back on their missile production.


reply posted on 16-11-2007 @ 07:48 AM by Jazzyguy
reply to post by SevenThunders


No offense but, wake up and smell the green tea. marg6043 is right, twice! You should read her posts (if you haven't done that already). The US won't do any of those 4 points that you called "simple plan". Don't be surprised if within a week, the US is suddenly experiencing recession. Well, we'll just have to wait and see.

I post in this thread again because I just saw BBC news stated that Americans already up to their neck in debt. That's the middle class Americans, not the elites.
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