The "Overlord's" Take On The Revolution

Congrats Boys

Late as usual.
I am honored to be part of this, though my contribution is a nano fragment.
I promote ATS when ever I find a n opportunity. I hope we hit main stream with out being polluted by mainstream conformity.

Go for it Amigos.

WIS

Originally posted by Becker44
Take a look at some of the posts made during the event. So many were enthralled with "B" actors and their dogs! No offense to Belzer, Ice T, and Gottfried but you must agree these are not the endorsers who will lead you to the promise land. They lack punch of any kind.

Actually they are people with similar views, not celebrities as such.

If the "revolution" is to take hold it must be done with a true leader. Someone the entire community will embrace. I hear the question coming so I'll throw a couple of names at you. How about Bill Richardson or perhaps Tony Blair, or even Rupert Murdoch. You get one of these folks to endorse the "revolution" and we'll all see some real action.

Nope, those are people that are biased, political figures.

If Simon, Springer and SO are true to the core they will individually or collectively initiate a true "revolution". I have faith in all mankind that their intentions are inherently good.

I think you just found the leaders.

Gentleman, if the event we witnessed is the precursor to your/our "revolution" I feel you/we are destined to fail. Firing up the troops for battle only to send them naked to the battlefield has only one ending. If you want to lead a "revolution" you must choose your leader wisely. Your respective appearances and speeches indicate a wide variety of talents and ingenuity, however you are in need of a front man or spokesperson. This will allow your/our "revolution" to begin.

I think you may have missed the point.

The leader(s) of this revolution will not be we the members. The obstacles of that thought process may work to further the "revolution" by a small step or two, but in no way can it achieve your vision without a "brand" or recognizable face.

That is exactly it though. I don't remember the thread that it was in but the Amigos said that they don't want to become MSM but SURPASS it. A "face" is just that but the contributions that members provide are THE point. It's what people want to read, not be told. You can get that from MSM.

You will need a positive image associated with your goal. It must be true to the core, believable and most impotantly genuine. This will be a true "revolution"

I wish you all the best,

Becker

Indeed, something different. Let's see what happens.

reply to post by intrepid



Intrepid, I must say your loyalty is unflappable. I'm sure the Amigos greatly appreciate your unwaivering support.

Unfortunatley you have missed some points. While I was hoping to engage in conversation with the Amigos, I would like to clarify a few things for you.

Actually they are people with similar views, not celebrities as such.

I think it's great Belzer, T and Gottfried share the views. I was referring to the many folks enamored with "celebrity sightings". To me it is a sign of less than thoughtful allegiance towards a figure as oppossed to a cause.

I think you just found the leaders.

Again, I see you toeing the company line of "The revolution starts with you". This is destine to fail. This concept must have leadership.

Nope, those are people that are biased, political figures.

I'm sorry you missed the point here. These people mentioned are quite capable and proven in the leadership arena. You may insert your person of choice but it must be someone of high stature.

I do appreciate you responding to my post. I can see we will not agree as you seem determined that the current plan for "revolution" is the only path to take. I, on the other hand think the path has not been thought through to the end.

Hey, just a difference of opinions. Thanks for keeping the northern border safe and sound for all of us down here. We appreciate the effort.

Becker

Originally posted by Becker44
The concept is solid but now you need an identity. It's branding in a sense. A quick and recognizable assimilation of the "revolution". You need the Nike Swoosh or the Golden Arch if you really want this to work.

Well, we have the ATS Presidential Elections coming up soon. And so, if you want a true assimilation, then I suggest you vote for me. I've had plenty of practice at it.

Onto the topic though...

We've all seen and heard the whole gamut of feelings on this event, and I can't say that I didn't have mixed emotions about it. I too was kind of perturbed by the lack of proverbial "bang for the buck" that we had put into that puzzle over the past 4 weeks or so. But, in hindsight, seeing where this site is heading, and taking my personal feelings out of the equation, I've realized that I was sorely mistaken.

To grow as a community, we need to all begin the tedious process of separating ourselves from stories, and start to focus on doing what we do best here, denying ignorance.

TheBorg

sooo...

you intend to do something that public media should be.
by the people(1) for the people(2).

you got the first part as it should be, now we have to make the 2nd part work, and it's done.

i my belief it will spread like wildfire if the topics presented will be on the interest of humanity, not only america or associates. of course id would be selected the most debated topics (i think).

i hope you keep it modulated, so people dont have to see all the past information on one issue to understand the next.

be a little holographic. every part to contain the information of the whole picture.

be interesting so you may swirl dust in your wake.

be honest as this community.

be strong in numbers and not by numbers.

be a general culture and try not to discredit anyone (culture), just knowledge and not more (the hidden knowledge).

could somebody ASSassinate BUSH?
you may discredit him and his 'culture'

and of course, i thank you Bill that you take a concept and reinvent it, for it needs to be reinvented to remain pure, as a baby after birth. hopefully this wont cause much pain and disappointment as any revolution dose. as i in special hope that it will be served as a template to other media creators.

there is nothing more sensitive as information.
there is nothing more powerful as information.

it is easy to turn it against you, so be careful, Bill, you will suffer greatly is it backfires.as i will suffer to. we support all of you, but i must be honest, if something goes wrong i wont support my claims. and i wont rise up like you. at least not now, but let the baby grow, and some day we might say:

"what a nice, strong warrior you have become!
we are proud of you, and we might dye for you!"

now we wait and learn.

I am usually always a day late and a dollar short but on this one I was lost and broke. I know that doesn't make much sense but I am referring to V.

In life I take everything as having a time and a place. When I was working on this puzzle (which I was as usual in the wrong direction) I had no clue what V was.

Last night I came upon one of the grandkids portable DVD players and did something I never have done before. I walked over to the numerous DVD's and started to look. Everything was labeled and in alphabetical order and as I came to the end I almost lost my breath for there before me was V.

As I quickly climbed the staircase to heaven I had great anticipation and was thrilled when I saw and heard Remember, remember the 5th of November.

I do believe you picked the correct date November the 5th but for ATS I believe right now it is still in EVOLUTION in time Revolution.

I think you are giving "we" the members the opportunity to evolve to bring forth the Revolution.

If I was a rich woman I would send you all a V tape a V mask, wig, hat and cape and tell you to awaken put on your V and start your Revolution and to end what a few are doing to you.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

[edit on 9-11-2007 by observe50]

Becker, no disrespect intended, just an observational question.

Are you wanting to do the leading here?

You see, I ask this because there are many strong personality types that always figure they can do a better job. Unfortunately, once they start leading, good as they might be at that, the concept becomes more and more about them, until it is their ideas at the expense of all other ideas.

As I stated in my last post on this thread, the revolution isn't about a "head" that is so very recognizable, but about a million heads that speak the voice of the people. this isn't a product here that is in need of a recognizable spokesman. This is a new concept that cannot follow the perimeters set up in the old ways.

I feel that you mean well, but have a hard time seeing the new vistas, being tied too tightly to the old way of "selling" an idea. This concept doesn't need selling, it needs only awareness. It doesn't need the cult of a leader, for as my friend The Borg would see, it is a collective. The collective minds of the people are greater than the genius of the single individual.

reply to post by NGC2736


Hey NGC,

No I do not want to lead. I understand how you may have come to that question though.

I respectfully would disagree with the notion this "revolution" can gather steam and make an impact without my described front man or spokesperson.

There's no way CNN or any other MSM is going to have a set large enough for all ATS members to apperar simultaneouosly. I personally feel we need one message, one spokesperson and one unified brand or image. That my friend is how it gets done. The other way in my opinion is a pipe dream of sorts.

Becker

reply to post by Becker44


I was worried you were wanting to rule the world through ATS.

Seriously, you are right that CNN and the like will not be able to host all the many voices of such a place as ATS. Nor should they. But when they start choosing news stories because they find them here, and other sites that clone themselves on this template, and start using the people as their guide in what is important, then we the people will be leading the news, instead of the other way around.

This concept puts aside the need for a "leader" figure. Leave these things to them, after all, they're good at that. User Generated Content is what counts, and once there is recognition of the validity of this concept by the MSM, and the desirability of it, then they will scramble to lap from this dish and turn it into profits for themselves.

But we the people win when they start listening to us, as a whole, instead of three or four geniuses of their own, about what is important news. This is revolution. And as more people become aware that they are listening, then more people will become involved at the bottom in deciding what news they want to learn more about.

We, the people, will become a resource for MSM in deciding what is important, because they will have more profit by doing so. Win/win? For some, though in any revolution, there are casualties.

reply to post by NGC2736


You make some excellent points.

I am still remiss with some of the logic however. Let's look at some of today's revolutionary groups and see how much influence they have inflicted upon MSM.

Code Pink
The Ron Paul movement (I like the guy mind you)
Million man march
Illegal imigration movement

These are just 4 (off the top of my head) groups who respectively want their own "revolutions" of sorts.

Our numbers pale in comparrison to the aboves. I love your enthusiam and beliefs of "we the people" but I don't think we can allow our passion for a cause interfere with a rational thought process. Look at the passions above. Where did it get these groups? 1 or 2 nights on the evening news. It's akin to their 15 minutes of fame.

Becker

[size=3.5]Great job guys, this is exactly what I have been waiting for!
for the haters out there who can only think of negative things to mention, it is time yall step up if you gonna speak up. Telling everyone else what you think it should be is one thing, actually doing what you say and carrying your own directives is another.

This is an excellent way to get out all the information you have in a highly visible manner, with career opportunities! These fine businessmen have created an extremely opportunistic outlet for all of us with a real message to put out.

*Do you do citizen patrols in your neighborhood to watch out for mischievous activity? Put it out there!
*Do you hold environmental cleanup rallies to keep your communities in healthy shape for the next generation to enjoy?? Put it out there!
*Have you exposed or are investigating corruption in your local government?? Put it out there!!
*Do you travel regularly or soon be doing so to differet cultures around that world that many of our fellow citizens do not have the opportunity to enjoy?? Post it all here!
*Does your city offer an excellent community service that you believe would be a great addition to other communities without it? Show us about it, and work with your local representatives for approval to talk about it and show us all!

It empowers you, me,us all and the ones who learn to dissemenate negative propoganda and provide the overwhelmingly positive stories of our own communities and the foreign cultures we visit! It allows you, and us all who watch to truly hear from other people around the world, who may not even have access to online technology understand there are others in far away lands, in possibly overwhelming numbers who not only support and agree with each other's views, but would join the cause and do what they can on their sides to assist in the phenomenon and truth movement.

All I be honest, if I see some real quality accounts that invested alot of work and dedication, I feel I would contribute what little I can to support the initiatives and as my own personal show of grattidue and appreciation.

Globalism, no doubt has had some negative consequences with out world, just as virtually any action in human history that has mvoed us forward. But probably the biggest benefit has been that ability for all the small people in the world to utilize new options and opportunities to empower us all to be as the biggest players on Earth!

Those whom only see the negatives are only allowing themselves to continue failing, and discouraging others from even trying. After all, "he who does not try, has failed already."

[edit on 11/9/2007 by DYepes]

reply to post by Becker44


Very true. But these were time/place/idea specific events. Yes, such things need "leader" recognition to a great extent. But people love to talk, why else would places like My Space and You Tube do so well. People love to be involved, and MSM is just now catching on to how much so. Now ATS is focusing the attention of MSM on the idea that this can pertain to world events, and be an ongoing data/idea mining operation for them.

If sites Like ATS were trying to replace MSM, then there would be a fight, which to me appears to have been the reason MSM has ignored it for so long. But the idea that User Generated news is more "in tune" with the consumers will lead to MSM using such sites to respond to demand in a better fashion.

This will not be an overthrow of any established power structures, but an assimilation of them into becoming a better integrated part of the body human. They will be forced to evolve to meet the new desires, as the body of users of this medium grow.

Leaders/spokesmen will come and go. Some great and known, others obscure. Such leaders will have small impact, for it is a growing awareness and frustrations of past stifling of the masses that will be the engine of change. Many "leader types" will emerge to try and gain from the revolution some portion of it's power to call their own. But of themselves, such spokesmen are of no real importance.

You and I disagree on the path of the revolution. There were many who felt the same way about every revolution of the past. Privates always know more than generals. But policy must always be the venue of the people. Revolutions are beasts that have a life of their own, and pick their own generals.

Originally posted by NGC2736
If sites Like ATS were trying to replace MSM, then there would be a fight, which to me appears to have been the reason MSM has ignored it for so long. But the idea that User Generated news is more "in tune" with the consumers will lead to MSM using such sites to respond to demand in a better fashion.

This will not be an overthrow of any established power structures, but an assimilation of them into becoming a better integrated part of the body human. They will be forced to evolve to meet the new desires, as the body of users of this medium grow.

BINGO! Your post hit the concept right on the head.

reply to post by NGC2736

This will not be an overthrow of any established power structures, but an assimilation of them into becoming a better integrated part of the body human. They will be forced to evolve to meet the new desires, as the body of users of this medium grow.

Then I will eagerly await this massive growth in the body of users. This revolution needs sheer numbers to be effective. Are we not kidding ourselves just a bit with simple mathematics?

There are 6.6 billion people on the planet. There are 300 million people in the United States. If ATS has 100,000 registered members (rounded for example) then WE represent .003% of the U.S. population. Heck we need another 2.9 million members just to get to 1%. I'd advise the boys to get another server or two if this is where we're heading!




Look rather than beat a dead horse, I am more than willing and excited to be a part of all of this. I will offer any services some might feel to be helpful. I'm sure by your tone and thoughtfulness you would offer as well. I'm just not convinced we're not swimming against the current.

In closing, I enjoy reading your points of view. I do see things a little differently by virtue of your postings. I want to be on this planet when something mind boggling takes place. I would sacrifice a great deal for such an event.

Becker

reply to post by Becker44


Spoken as a true Son of Liberty! All revolutions have to grow. And when the cause is just, we have a chance. It is better to fail, than never to make the attempt.

Originally posted by Becker44


There are 6.6 billion people on the planet. There are 300 million people in the United States. If ATS has 100,000 registered members (rounded for example) then WE represent .003% of the U.S. population. Heck we need another 2.9 million members just to get to 1%.

The Leading edge will always be a small percentage. Otherwise it wouldnt be the leading edge. By the time abovetopsecret goes maintream, Im off to forums representing the 1%.

I want to be on this planet when something mind boggling takes place. I would sacrifice a great deal for such an event.

You already are. Its called Life. One of the most mind-boggling mass-events in this part of the universe.

Originally posted by Becker44
Again, I see you toeing the company line of "The revolution starts with you". This is destine to fail. This concept must have leadership.

Actually, not. You are now riding comfortably on the crest of a certified revolution for which no leadership has been granted, assumed, or traded... that of the user-web. The revolution began with a quiet buzz of hard-drives as the first emails were exchanged, and peaked with the deafening clamor of sites like ATS being able to derive revenue from people sharing their inner-most hopes and dreams.

There was no leader.

No revolutionary committee.

No manifesto.

And no plan.

But it happened anyway because for the first time ever, the cost of entry for personal global communication has fallen within the grasp of millions of ordinary people. And what did they do with this new ability? They talked, shared, and looked for others like themselves. This new digitally metropolitan culture, the Internet culture, is one of collaboration driven by the ethics of sharing. For the first time in history, a revolution has occurred without leadership... because now, we don't need it.

I respectfully would disagree with the notion this "revolution" can gather steam and make an impact without my described front man or spokesperson.

Now you can see, it already happened once. Whether The Above Network, LLC is the catalyst for the user-generated mass media (UGMM), or someone else is, you can be certain it's going to happen and it is potentially a much larger revolution.

There's no way CNN or any other MSM is going to have a set large enough for all ATS members to apperar simultaneouosly

That's not the idea anyway. What is happening now is that those (and other) mainstream news sources are picking the stories, and treatments of the stories, based on how they believe it will effect their ratings. Invariably the wrong stories receive too much attention, and the important stories receive little or none. With UGMM, the important topics rise to the surface as a result of the wisdom of the crowd.

Let's look at some of today's revolutionary groups and see how much influence they have inflicted upon MSM

Those were not "revolutionary groups," they were activist or reactionary groups... very, very different. And in any event, our longer-term goal is not to influence mainstream media... it is to reinvent it.

This revolution needs sheer numbers to be effective. Are we not kidding ourselves just a bit with simple mathematics?

Run, no really run, and buy The Wisdom of Crowds, a brilliant piece of social anthropology by James Surowiecki. The numbers need only be significant enough to pass the tipping point whereby the group is collectively more astute on a given subject than any individual expert. Look around the higher-profile or highly-active topics here on ATS, we've long since passed that tipping point.

reply to post by SimonGray


Hey! This is sooooooo cool. Can I be MC?
Pleeeeeeaaaasssse?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Actually, we are looking at regional parties for members-only next summer. Which may even be a way to kick-off regional ATS groups/clubs.

Thats a great idea!! You know you have tons and tons of florida members
I would be happy to offer you my catering services if you happen to get anything going here in the Tampa Bay area here in florida.
I could bring the subs, and good eats, to any florida event you have going on And I would give you that at my cost.. I wouldnt make any money off this, as it would be a pleasure just to help out in the only way I know how..

Chef Zy5

T-Town baby yea!!! I stay about 2 blocks NorthEast of Ray Jay stadium, right behind the big office complex.

Man if you need someone to file the permits, I am right here! Need reccomendations for a convention location?

St Pete times forum (in downtown tampa), Florida state fairgrounds auditorium (walking distance of Seminole Casino), Tampa Convention Center (downtown), or if smaller locations are preferred, there are plenty of Hotels in the Westshore area that house well sized auditorium type rooms. At least a hundred people could hang out comfortably in those.

Like I said, I would be more than delighted to make the appointments, file permits, maybe even get a city presence (mayor or city council). I can always go to city hall and just talk to them about it on the public agenda.

And I know zysin5 would do his part, and so will anyone in Tampa, FL.

Holla!!