Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Faith isn't proof, I could have faith the suns gonna implode in 3 seconds. I haven't proved it yet

I didn't say faith equals proof, I said the only way to find proof is to begin with faith.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Faith isn't proof, I could have faith the suns gonna implode in 3 seconds. I haven't proved it yet

I didn't say faith equals proof, I said the only way to find proof is to begin with faith.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

Well they've had around 2000 years of faith to find proof

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Well they've had around 2000 years of faith to find proof

And in that time many billions of people found their proof....YOU may not accept their proof but many have received it through faith.

I received my proof through my near death experience...now you may argue that my experience was some natural condition of a dying brain...well like I said YOU may not accept other peoples proof. I also had what I believe were visits from Jesus or the holy spirit after my NDE.....again it's my proof not anyone else's. I feel very blessed to have received these things. I know there are billions of people that will be more blessed than me because they lived their life without any proof and keep going on faith.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Well they've had around 2000 years of faith to find proof

And in that time many billions of people found their proof....YOU may not accept their proof but many have received it through faith.

I received my proof through my near death experience...now you may argue that my experience was some natural condition of a dying brain...well like I said YOU may not accept other peoples proof. I also had what I believe were visits from Jesus or the holy spirit after my NDE.....again it's my proof not anyone else's. I feel very blessed to have received these things. I know there are billions of people that will be more blessed than me because they lived their life without any proof and keep going on faith.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

Your right they have found THEIR proof and you have found YOUR proof. Thats not proof. Thats subjectivity. And how do you explain people of other religions have NDEs and seeing THEIR gods. Wait I have it, its a natural reaction from the brain to help deal with the trauma.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Your right they have found THEIR proof and you have found YOUR proof. Thats not proof.

Is there an echo in here. That's what I just said. The proof I receive started with faith and was intended for me...not you. I already said you may not accept others proof as proof. sheesh

Lets go another route. What proof would you accept from me, or any other man, that would convince you there is a God?

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Your right they have found THEIR proof and you have found YOUR proof. Thats not proof.

Is there an echo in here. That's what I just said. The proof I receive started with faith and was intended for me...not you. I already said you may not accept others proof as proof. sheesh

Lets go another route. What proof would you accept from me, or any other man, that would convince you there is a God?

How about PROOF. HARD SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE pointing towards not just a god but YOUR god. If you can show me that I'll be more then happy to convert.

Yes I understand...please let me know what proof you would accept.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Yes I understand...please let me know what proof you would accept.

Your right there is an echo. HARD SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE pointing towards not just a god but YOUR god. If you can show me that I'll be more then happy to convert. if you want some specifics, any hard evidence can be used. Can't be subjective, an assumption, circular logic, contradictory or unbacked.

Faith in God is about BELIEVING. How can you BELIEVE when you demand PROOF?
Those who demand proof will receive it, but by then it will be too late.

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
HARD SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE pointing towards not just a god but YOUR god. If you can show me that I'll be more then happy to convert. if you want some specifics, any hard evidence can be used. Can't be subjective, an assumption, circular logic, contradictory or unbacked.

lol Damien_Hell....that's the point of my question (as I'm sure you know). The reason you won't say anything specific is because there is nothing you could reasonably suggest. There is NO hard scientific evidence that ANYONE could possibly provide that you would accept as proof of God. This is why I said it all must begin with FAITH.



[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

Well my belief is let people choose what they want to believe. Why should it matter to someone who doesn't believe in god to worry about people who do believe in god? Your free will is there for a reason. Use your reason and let everything else go. It doesn't matter to me what people believe as long as they don't try to throw it off on me and say I'm going to hell if i don't repent. Be yourself and don't let people change that, unless you do the research and think you've made a mistake and you change it because it goes with your believes and thoughts. Change is a good thing as long as you do it for you and nobody else.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Faith in God is about BELIEVING. How can you BELIEVE when you demand PROOF?

So you base your life around something you know you can't prove? Read my earlier posts, thats called being delusional. Its its true it can be proven, and when I see that proof I'll be more then happy to convert, but if it can't be proven then its not true.

Those who demand proof will receive it, but by then it will be too late.

Plz don't throw around empty threats, do you know how many religions have a hell? You have just as bad a chance as I do. Difference is I'm not scared of my "loving god". kinglizard says he has proof. I am going to give him the chance to present that proof

lol Damien_Hell....that's the point of my question (as I'm sure you know). The reason you won't say anything specific is because there is nothing you could reasonably suggest. There is NO hard scientific evidence that ANYONE could possibly provide that you would accept as proof of God. This is why I said it all must begin with FAITH.

I've always noticed how much theists scream about the proof and the evidence they have, and when I want to see it suddenly it disappears and they have some kind of cover story. I don't want to say anything specific because I want to see EVERYTHING you have.

Why should it matter to someone who doesn't believe in god to worry about people who do believe in god?

Because they are the people who rule the countries, the armies etc. And they limit other peoples freedoms, right etc because of THEIR beliefs and start wars because of THEIR beliefs.

It doesn't matter to me what people believe as long as they don't try to throw it off on me and say I'm going to hell if i don't repent.

You don't deal with theists do you?

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
I don't want to say anything specific because I want to see EVERYTHING you have.

*yawn*

Start a list and we will go through it together.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
I don't want to say anything specific because I want to see EVERYTHING you have.

*yawn*

Start a list and we will go through it together.

Ok I guess I capped the wrong word. I want to see everything YOU have.

Here are most of my posts in this thread....please feel free to misread them again.



1) Finding God and proof of God starts with faith and acts of faith....never the other way around.

2) I didn't say faith equals proof, I said the only way to find proof is to begin with faith.

3) And in that time many billions of people found their proof....YOU may not accept their proof but many have received it through faith.

4)I received my proof through my near death experience...now you may argue that my experience was some natural condition of a dying brain...well like I said YOU may not accept other peoples proof. I also had what I believe were visits from Jesus or the holy spirit after my NDE.....again it's my proof not anyone else's. I feel very blessed to have received these things. I know there are billions of people that will be more blessed than me because they lived their life without any proof and keep going on faith.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Here are most of my posts in this thread....please feel free to misread them again.



1) Finding God and proof of God starts with faith and acts of faith....never the other way around.

2) I didn't say faith equals proof, I said the only way to find proof is to begin with faith.

3) And in that time many billions of people found their proof....YOU may not accept their proof but many have received it through faith.

4)I received my proof through my near death experience...now you may argue that my experience was some natural condition of a dying brain...well like I said YOU may not accept other peoples proof. I also had what I believe were visits from Jesus or the holy spirit after my NDE.....again it's my proof not anyone else's. I feel very blessed to have received these things. I know there are billions of people that will be more blessed than me because they lived their life without any proof and keep going on faith.

So your admitting you have NO scientific evidence to prove your religion is true and will continue to rely on subjectivism to guide you life?

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
So your admitting you have NO scientific evidence to prove your religion is true and will continue to rely on subjectivism to guide you life?

Well duuurrrr, there is no scientific proof that I or anyone else can present to you that would prove the existence of God. What part of FAITH don't you understand?

I have MY proof through my NDE, others have their proof but it's not something you are likely to accept...as I've said from the very beginning.

As for your "subjectivism" comment/insult....I can accept that you think that.

As much as I love repeating myself and playing word games I'm afraid I'm probably done with this "discussion".

Take Care

Originally posted by AncientVoid
none of what you said is proof...

Is this the land of bizarro? lol