Interesting Numbers for you Big Oil Conspiracy people

Trouble ahead for Big Oil!

Despite surging crude prices, profits may be on the wane at the big multinational energy companies.

Trouble for Big Oil

This is an interesting read for those of you who think that everything is linked to Big Oil making tons of profits off of things like the war.

Take it for what it's worth.

OP, that's a bit misleading. Further into the article it states that Exxon made $9.4 Billion. Poor Exxon. That's like feeling sorry for the bank robber who finds profits down because banks start keeping less money on hand to be stolen.

I never made the statement that I felt sorry for Big Oil or that they weren't still making profits. My point was simply that despite the rising cost of crude oil, they oil companies aren't really profiting as much as people think. That's quite a different take on things from what you usually see and hear around here.

Rest assured though, none of these big oil executives will have trouble making their mortgages this month.

OH, I wasn't meaning you were misleading anyone. The heading came from the article you linked to.

And I doubt anyone feels sorry for those fat cats.

Originally posted by nyk537
you Big Oil Conspiracy people

So what does that make you, a Big Oil apologist?
Gas is going up again today, possibly big time price hikes according to Yahoo news. You kicked this thread off with uncanny shill-esque timing, but I think most folks are tuned in enough to know that Oil comapnies are far from scrounging.
They don't call it 'record profits' for nothing you know. A 300% increase in the price of Oil in the last four years, to put a number on it. No conspiracy needed, just greed and warfare, or in the immortal words of David Byrne, 'same as it ever was'.

Big Oil Apologist?

Yes, that's me. I love how much money oil companies make exploiting the general public. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. GO BIG OIL!!

Originally posted by NGC2736
Further into the article it states that Exxon made $9.4 Billion.

Go check the prices on a deep sea drilling platform and the logistics needed to keep it running. Then tell me how far $9.4 Billion will go. I think a basic model will run you around $500 million. Then you have to pay for boats and helicopters to supply the thing, and pay the crew that mans it, as well as the geologist that search for somewhere to drill.

gee dbates maybe your the big oil apoligist?
lol just kidding
but do remember the 9.4 billion is profit.... funds for research development exploration and extraction are buisness expenses, not included in profit margins....these are just the costs of " doing buisness"

Lets also remember that alot of that profit came from selling oil that was in their reserves. As the price of oil went up, these had fixed costs based on earlier production. The new selling prices were well in excess of what they could have dreamed of. Its was almost unlimited profits on these.

As the price of oil has gone way up, so have the costs related to producing these barrels of oil. So think about it. If we see a decline in the prioce of oil, these companies have current reserves based on current prices. If they then have to sell these barrels of oil at reduced prices it won;t be long before the Government is giving subsidies to these companies.

Not sure how old everyone here is, but remember the oil crisi in the late 70's? Remember the record price of oil? Well the same thing happened then. The price came down, oil companies just about went bankrupt. Subisidies and mergers is the only thing that savbed the entire indutry.

Call me an oil apologist, or what ever you want to call me.....Its all about cycles. I keep harping on this in just about ever economic thread I am involved in, and global warming thread. Just like cycles make the world go round, they also make the business world go around.

Right now the biggest reason as to why the price of OIL is rising has nothing to do with supply and demand. Thats a bad thing. Supply and demand is what makes economies work. The price oof oil has nothing to do with "peak oil" (by the way, the theory does not exist). The price of oil is all about the declining US$. As the US $ goes down in value, the price of oil rises. Its an inverse relationship and has been for decades. Want to know who is making on wall street? Commodity and currency traders. The price of oil is going higher, because the trend says so. Traders want $100 per barrel and they will get it. They will use inventory numbers and any mid-east news as a way to get it. They are manipulating the price of oil, as the fundamentals are no where close to the actual price of oil. Currency traders are also trading the trend. The trend is the most important thing to a trader. (The trend is your friend). The safe bet is short the US$. They keep applying pressure so the trend continues.

In effect, each of the traders know that they need each other. As long as the US$ goes down, the price of oil rises. The trade will continued until the trend is broken.

Oh, by the way......this too is a cycle. Cycles repeat, cycles end.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by NGC2736
Further into the article it states that Exxon made $9.4 Billion.

Go check the prices on a deep sea drilling platform and the logistics needed to keep it running. Then tell me how far $9.4 Billion will go. I think a basic model will run you around $500 million. Then you have to pay for boats and helicopters to supply the thing, and pay the crew that mans it, as well as the geologist that search for somewhere to drill.

It wouldn't be 9.4billion profit then would it??? If they had to pay expenses
Oil companies are stinking rich, think of all the companies the big oils own, like plastic manufacturing plants etc. Then think of the people that own the oil companies and what other things they own like Lockheed Martin and the Skunkworks etc.

No sympathy here either.

Look at this statement here from the article "Gasoline prices can't keep pace with the sharp run-up in crude oil prices". Now the article goes on to make the ludicrous statement "Going forward, whatever an oil company can get for crude oil (production), it will forfeit at the pump."

BS...no they won't and no they haven't. They're going to make a profit every single gallon or they won't sell the gallon. In the past year when refining costs have varied from .30/gallon to $1.26/gallon the gas prices have tracked right with that. There hasn't been any perceivable sacrifice on the price of the crude oil.

And let's talk about the fluctuating refining costs. For the past couple of months the refining costs have been running from .30/gallon to .40/gallon, but back in May/June they ran as high as $1.26/gallon. Soooo....the same damned refinery is doing the same damned thing with the same damned equipment but the price to do that function is going up as much as 400% all of a sudden?

By majority who owns the refineries??? OH! Look...the majors do. **

*zoom zoom zoom*

www.eia.doe.gov...

Rank Company Name State Site Barrels per Calendar Day
1 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co Texas Baytown 562,500
2 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co Louisana Baton Rouge 503,000
3 Citgo Petroleum Corp Louisana Lake Charles 429,500
4 Bp Products North America Inc Texas Texas City 417,000
5 Bp Products North America Inc Indiana Whiting 410,000
6 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co Texas Beaumont 348,500
7 Sunoco Inc (R&M) Pennsylvania Philadelphia 335,000
8 Deer Park Refining Ltd Partnership Texas Deer Park 333,700
9 Chevron Usa Inc Mississippi Pascagoula 330,000
10 Wrb Refining Llc Illinois Wood River 306,000
11 Flint Hills Resources Lp Texas Corpus Christi 288,126
12 Motiva Enterprises Llc Texas Port Arthur 285,000
13 Flint Hills Resources Lp Minnesota Saint Paul 279,300
14 Houston Refining Lp Texas Houston 270,200
15 Bp West Coast Products Llc California Los Angeles 265,000
16 Chevron Usa Inc California El Segundo 260,000
17 Premcor Refining Group Inc Texas Port Arthur 260,000
18 Conocophillips Company Louisana Belle Chasse 247,000
19 Conocophillips Company Texas Sweeny 247,000
20 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Louisana Garyville 245,000
21 Chevron Usa Inc California Richmond 242,901
22 Motiva Enterprises Llc Louisana Norco 242,200
23 Conocophillips Company Louisana Westlake 239,400
24 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co Illinois Joliet 238,600
25 Conocophillips Company New Jersey Linden 238,000
26 Motiva Enterprises Llc Louisana Convent 235,000
27 Total Petrochemicals Inc Texas Port Arthur 232,000
28 Bp West Coast Products Llc Washington Ferndale (Cherry Poi 225,000
29 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Kentucky Catlettsburg 222,000
30 Valero Refining Co Texas Texas Texas City 218,500
31 Flint Hills Resources Alaska Llc Alaska North Pole 210,000
32 Conocophillips Company Oklahoma Ponca City 194,000
33 Chalmette Refining Llc Louisana Chalmette 192,760
34 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Illinois Robinson 192,000
35 Valero Refining New Orleans Llc Louisana Norco 185,003
36 Conocophillips Company Pennsylvania Trainer 185,000
37 Premcor Refining Group Inc Delaware Delaware City 182,200
38 Premcor Refining Group Inc Tennessee Memphis 180,000
39 Sunoco Inc Pennsylvania Marcus Hook 178,000
40 Valero Energy Corporation Texas Sunray 171,000
41 Pdv Midwest Refining Llc Illinois Lemont (Chicago) 167,000
42 Tesoro Refining & Marketing Co California Martinez 166,000
43 Sunoco Inc Ohio Toledo 160,000
44 Valero Refining Co New Jersey New Jersey Paulsboro 160,000
45 Citgo Refining & Chemical Inc Texas Corpus Christi 156,000
46 Shell Oil Products Us California Martinez 155,600
47 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co California Torrance 149,500
48 Premcor Refining Group Inc Ohio Lima 146,120
49 Wrb Refining Llc Texas Borger 146,000
50 Shell Oil Products Us Washington Anacortes 145,000
51 Sunoco Inc New Jersey Westville 145,000
52 Valero Refining Co California California Benicia 144,000
53 Valero Refining Co Texas Texas Corpus Christi 142,000
54 Conocophillips Company California Wilmington 139,000
55 Bp Products North America Inc Ohio Toledo 131,000
56 Western Refining Company Lp Texas El Paso 122,000
57 Murphy Oil Usa Inc Louisana Meraux 120,000
58 Tesoro West Coast Washington Anacortes 120,000
59 Coffeyville Resources Llc Kansas Coffeyville 112,000
60 Frontier El Dorado Refining Co Kansas El Dorado 107,500
61 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Michigan Detroit 100,000
62 Pasadena Refining Systems Inc Texas Pasadena 100,000
63 Shell Oil Products Us California Wilmington 97,000
64 Conocophillips Company Washington Ferndale 96,000
65 Tesoro Hawaii Corp Hawaii Kapolei 93,500
66 Valero Energy Corporation Texas Three Rivers 93,000
67 Valero Refining Co Oklahoma Oklahoma Ardmore 87,400
68 Sunoco Inc Oklahoma Tulsa 85,000
69 Navajo Refining Co New Mexico Artesia 84,000
70 Valero Refining Co Texas Texas Houston 83,000
71 Ncra Kansas Mcpherson 81,200
72 Ultramar Inc California Wilmington 80,887
73 Chevron Usa Inc New Jersey Perth Amboy 80,000
74 Shell Chem Lp Alabama Saraland 80,000
75 Valero Refining Co Louisiana Louisana Krotz Springs 80,000
76 Calcasieu Refining Co Louisana Lake Charles 78,000
77 Conocophillips Company California Rodeo 76,000
78 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Ohio Canton 73,000
79 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Texas Texas City 72,000
80 Tesoro Alaska Petroleum Co Alaska Kenai 72,000
81 Sinclair Oil Corp Oklahoma Tulsa 70,300
82 Lion Oil Co Arkansas El Dorado 70,000
83 Marathon Petroleum Co Llc Minnesota Saint Paul Park 70,000
84 Alon Usa Energy Inc Texas Big Spring 67,000
85 Big West Of California California Bakersfield 66,000
86 Sinclair Oil Corp Wyoming Sinclair 66,000
87 United Refining Co Pennsylvania Warren 65,000
88 Suncor Energy (Usa) Inc Colorado Commerce City 62,000
89 Exxonmobil Refining & Supply Co Montana Billings 60,000
90 Giant Yorktown Refining Virginia Yorktown 59,375
91 Conocophillips Company Montana Billings 58,000
92 Delek Refining Ltd Texas Tyler 58,000
93 Tesoro West Coast North Dakota Mandan 58,000
94 Tesoro West Coast Utah Salt Lake City 58,000
95 Placid Refining Co Louisana Port Allen 56,000
96 Cenex Harvest States Coop Montana Laurel 55,000
97 Shell Chem Lp Louisana Saint Rose 55,000
98 Chevron Usa Inc Hawaii Honolulu 54,000
99 Wynnewood Refining Co Oklahoma Wynnewood 54,000
100 Paramount Petroleum Corporation California Paramount 50,000
101 Petro Star Inc Alaska Valdez 48,000
102 Frontier Refining Inc Wyoming Cheyenne 47,000
103 Chevron Usa Inc Utah Salt Lake City 45,000
104 Conocophillips Company California Arroyo Grande 44,200
105 Calumet Shreveport Llc Louisana Shreveport 42,000
106 Us Oil & Refining Co Washington Tacoma 37,850
107 Hunt Refining Co Alabama Tuscaloosa 34,500
108 Murphy Oil Usa Inc Wisconsin Superior 34,300
109 Edgington Oil Co Inc California Long Beach 33,000
110 Citgo Asphalt Refining Co New Jersey Paulsboro 32,000
111 Suncor Energy (Usa) Inc Colorado Denver 32,000
112 Big West Oil Co Utah North Salt Lake 29,400
113 Citgo Asphalt Refining Co Georgia Savannah 28,000
114 Kern Oil & Refining Co California Bakersfield 26,000
115 Holly Corp Refining & Marketing Utah Woods Cross 24,700
116 Little America Refining Co Wyoming Evansville (Casper) 24,500
117 Countrymark Cooperative Inc Indiana Mount Vernon 23,000
118 Ergon Refining Inc Mississippi Vicksburg 23,000
119 Giant Refining Co New Mexico Gallup 20,800
120 Ergon West Virginia Inc West Virginia Newell (Congo) 20,000
121 Petro Star Inc Alaska North Pole 17,500
122 Giant Industries Inc New Mexico Bloomfield 16,800
123 Gulf Atlantic Operations Llc Alabama Mobile 16,700
124 Conocophillips Alaska Inc Alaska Kuparuk 15,000
125 San Joaquin Refining Co Inc California Bakersfield 15,000
126 Wyoming Refining Co Wyoming Newcastle 14,000
127 Calumet Lubricants Co Lp Louisana Cotton Valley 13,020
128 Age Refining Inc Texas San Antonio 13,000
129 Bp Exploration Alaska Inc Alaska Prudhoe Bay 12,500
130 Hunt Southland Refining Co Mississippi Sandersville 11,000
131 Silver Eagle Refining Utah Woods Cross 10,250
132 American Refining Group Inc Pennsylvania Bradford 10,000
133 Greka Energy California Santa Maria 9,500
134 Montana Refining Co Montana Great Falls 9,500
135 Lunday Thagard Co California South Gate 8,500
136 Calumet Lubricants Co Lp Louisana Princeton 8,300
137 Cross Oil Refining & Marketing Inc Arkansas Smackover 7,200
138 Valero Refining Co California California Wilmington 6,300
139 Somerset Refinery Inc Kentucky Somerset 5,500
140 Goodway Refining Llc Alabama Atmore 4,100
141 Silver Eagle Refining Wyoming Evanston 3,000
142 Tenby Inc California Oxnard 2,800
143 Foreland Refining Corp Nevada Eagle Springs 2,000

*P.S. Point being it doesn't matter where the profit is at the pump or the refinery - same people are getting it.

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Valhall]

Originally posted by traderonwallst

Right now the biggest reason as to why the price of OIL is rising has nothing to do with supply and demand. Thats a bad thing. Supply and demand is what makes economies work. The price oof oil has nothing to do with "peak oil" (by the way, the theory does not exist). The price of oil is all about the declining US$. As the US $ goes down in value, the price of oil rises.

In effect, each of the traders know that they need each other. As long as the US$ goes down, the price of oil rises. The trade will continued until the trend is broken.

Well said!
there are so many variables to the price of any and everything but oil in particular is dependent on the value of the dollar, as was stated by the above poster as the dollar continues to decline in value the price of oil is only going to go up..

Sad but true expect to see gas at or above $5.00 a gallon in the not to distant future.. Ouch that's gonna hurt

I thought I would also point out that there was a time not to long ago
that oil companies lost money over and over quarter after quarter..
If I was them I too would be stuffing my coiffure full of money so when the
next big loss comes around (and it will) I can stay afloat..

One last point don't forget this does not just affect the gas tank as petroleum products and byproducts are used in just about everything from Medicines to computer hardware..

Respectfully,
GEO

[edit on 11/7/2007 by geocom]

[edit on 11/7/2007 by geocom]

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Lets also remember that alot of that profit came from selling oil that was in their reserves. As the price of oil went up, these had fixed costs based on earlier production. The new selling prices were well in excess of what they could have dreamed of. Its was almost unlimited profits on these.

And that's been the case for a few years running and true on at least a few former 'oil crisis' occasions.

As the price of oil has gone way up, so have the costs related to producing these barrels of oil.

How do you reckon and explain the economic and market logic involved? I can tell you why some costs did go up ( go look at massive increase in rates for hiring drilling platforms etc) and also that it has absolutely nothing to do with market or economic fundamentals.

So think about it. If we see a decline in the prioce of oil, these companies have current reserves based on current prices. If they then have to sell these barrels of oil at reduced prices it won;t be long before the Government is giving subsidies to these companies.

Sure it wont take long for the oil companies to get even more subsidies but i am still waiting for someone to give me a legitimate reason why they are being bailed out? When are we ever going to get investments in all the alternatives if 'we' are perpetually forced to bail out big oil while it's making fantastical profits?

Not sure how old everyone here is, but remember the oil crisi in the late 70's? Remember the record price of oil? Well the same thing happened then. The price came down, oil companies just about went bankrupt.

So why did they almost go bankrupt? Is there any chance of you sourcing your claims?

Subisidies and mergers is the only thing that savbed the entire indutry.

That's what they told us but ALL industries are and were merging and break neck speed. Merging and the whole sale consumption of the competition has NOTHING to do with market forces and everything to do with creating monopolies that can manipulate the market , us, more effectively.

Call me an oil apologist, or what ever you want to call me.....

How can you be a apologist when you have been indoctrinated to probably believe everything you are telling us? The best apologist aren't as they really think their telling the 'truth'!

Its all about cycles. I keep harping on this in just about ever economic thread I am involved in, and global warming thread. Just like cycles make the world go round, they also make the business world go around.

The problem with the theory of economic cycles is that we can predict them exactly by looking at what primarily banks and industry do to start them and end them. I can't speak for economic cycles a thousand years ago but i can speak to the fact that they have not been natural in a very very long time.

Right now the biggest reason as to why the price of OIL is rising has nothing to do with supply and demand. Thats a bad thing. Supply and demand is what makes economies work.

But since modern economies have very little to do with the interaction between supply and demand they don't work. We do at least seem to be agreeing on the fact that there has not been a shortage of oil on the market for many years running.

The price oof oil has nothing to do with "peak oil" (by the way, the theory does not exist). The price of oil is all about the declining US$. As the US $ goes down in value, the price of oil rises. Its an inverse relationship and has been for decades.

And as i suggested in another thread the current price of oil would have to exceed 200 USD per barrel to even come close to the inflation adjusted prices of oil in 1979.

Want to know who is making on wall street? Commodity and currency traders. The price of oil is going higher, because the trend says so. Traders want $100 per barrel and they will get it. They will use inventory numbers and any mid-east news as a way to get it. They are manipulating the price of oil, as the fundamentals are no where close to the actual price of oil.

Don't find many people who understand this so i should probably start giving you a whole lot more credit while i help you to understand all the areas where you are still making arguments from false data sets.

Currency traders are also trading the trend. The trend is the most important thing to a trader. (The trend is your friend). The safe bet is short the US$. They keep applying pressure so the trend continues.

Trend betting is what those people who do not understand the big picture must rely on and while i do not blame them it makes it easy to understand how currencies can be destroyed and entire nations ruined. If currency traders are sheep you only need a few herders to induce a trend the rest will then speculate into.

In effect, each of the traders know that they need each other. As long as the US$ goes down, the price of oil rises. The trade will continued until the trend is broken.

Like sheep that require proximity for protection with the biggest having the ability to barrel their way to the center where they are far less likely to be exposed to a changing trend ( or in the wild, eaten) or market upheavals in general.

Oh, by the way......this too is a cycle. Cycles repeat, cycles end.

And they would given how the global economy is designed to be manipulated to 'grow' by sucking up investments and then 'crash' so as to allow real property and goods to be taken as payment for the make belief 'debts' that were exposed by the crisis. There is no reason why there must be a boom or a bust but without such it's going to be pretty hard to take people's physical labour, in the form of property& housing and business machinery, from them without armed men. It's basically legalized theft and they cycles will speed up as they gain more power.

Stellar

Originally posted by dbates
Go check the prices on a deep sea drilling platform and the logistics needed to keep it running.

The hiring costs recently went up by a few hundred percent but then they have ample reserves and drilled wells that are currently not being produced from.

Then tell me how far $9.4 Billion will go.

Very very far given a extraction cost of around 8 USD/pb ( at say 1995 prices) in the North sea.

I think a basic model will run you around $500 million. Then you have to pay for boats and helicopters to supply the thing, and pay the crew that mans it, as well as the geologist that search for somewhere to drill.

It just sounds to me like your doing your best to explain away prices that do not on the face of i make any sense. If you wish to give us some more precise numbers and sources we can discuss the issue but right now i don't think you are doing anything different than your norm! You know i like to get the meat of a subject but it's hard when i am given no 'facts' to object to!

Stellar