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BIG Question posed toward "abductees"

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posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Jeff-

I never knew you were an abductee. That is very interesting. You certainly seem like one of the more honest and educated people on this forum.



As far as I'm concerned, all the experiements and medical crap is screen memories. I've had slight (well as slight as they can be) medical things, but they are not the majority. There's alot more going on then the fable of alien babies/hybrids, and DNA harvesting. Thats (again as far as I'm concerned) the product of regression (ugh) therapy (which has been proven to be worthless on a number of occasions), your mind trying to make sense of the experience, or false memory that the engima gives you-and a host of others-cultural contamination, etc..


I take it you've been to a competent hypnotist who has researched the UFO/Alien phenom in depth? What do you think of David M. Jacobs? Have you ever considered seeing him or Bud Hopkins? I'm not sure how difficult it is to get in contact with those folks.

One thing I was curious to find out by reading Jacobs' book was that every abductee who mates will produce children who are also abductees. Even if their mate is a non-abductee. My feeling is that you haven't totally discarded the idea of alien-human hybrids but that you aren't sold on it (at least not in the context of DNA harvesting)?



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76
Jeff-

I never knew you were an abductee. That is very interesting. You certainly seem like one of the more honest and educated people on this forum.


Ick, "abductee" has all sorts of lunacy attached to it, and I'm pretty far from that. Little to "victim-izy" too.
I always called it being an "experiencer". The other term has regulated itself to "aliens" and "ETs", and I dont buy into any of that. I'm surprised ya didnt know, I wrote a *huge* post about it maybe a year ago now...maybe more? I dunno. But yeah, safe to say I am.



Originally posted by Scramjet76
I take it you've been to a competent hypnotist who has researched the UFO/Alien phenom in depth? What do you think of David M. Jacobs? Have you ever considered seeing him or Bud Hopkins? I'm not sure how difficult it is to get in contact with those folks.


Nope. I've read enough and talked to enough psychologists and Doctors to know that hypnosis (regression) is NOT any way to get at missing memories. The area of the brain dealt with in regression is the area now realized by the mental health community as the part dealing with fantasy scenarios. They apparently feel very real, but are a result of cultural contamination and leading "therapists". I wouldnt know, as I've not had it done. The vast majority of experiences I remember outright, with no help. There's little reason to probe into risky nonsense and possibly screw up my perception of events.

As far as Hopkins and Jacobs, while both seem like nice people, they both also have locked on to a theory they wont easily get out of. Both have sold works based on said theory, and therefore have an agenda to fill in that regard. Do I, or would I trust either? No. Again, they base a hell of alot on a faulty method of regression therapy. I do not believe either's theories are vaild for that reason alone.


Originally posted by Scramjet76
One thing I was curious to find out by reading Jacobs' book was that every abductee who mates will produce children who are also abductees. Even if their mate is a non-abductee. My feeling is that you haven't totally discarded the idea of alien-human hybrids but that you aren't sold on it (at least not in the context of DNA harvesting)?


No, I have discarded the hybrid stuff. Totally. As far as I'm concerned thats all screen memory (as described a bit in the last post), to hide something else, something much more profound and very likely past our ability to even percieve it. I think the important part to acknowledge right now is that the enigma has a very big edge in controlling perceptions. That said, it's making itself appear to be (or we are making it appear to be, with our own feeble perceptions) of an extra-terrestrial nature.

As much as people dont want to admit it, not even me...there's every chance these beings exist very close to us, perhaps even in the room youre in now, but we cannt see them, nor percieve them. Humans have only the senses we have, and they are exceedingly limited. I think IR and thermal cameras should have at least taught us that.

The problem is, people dont know where to go with that. It's uncomfortable, and doesnt have much longevity in a discussion. ETs do. Thats why everyone resigns themselves to calling them ETs (here's a hint...no one really knows). People dont want to go outside of the UFO community to look for answers. Maybe we ought to try looking into quantum physics, or the nature of human perception. By-in-large people are lazy. They want the "reader's digest" answer...and there isnt one, or we'd have it by now. But, people like to talk...and here we are today. Still stuck to a ET theory that has no more basis then it ever did. It's just the easy answer. (here's a random scary thought: what if there are ETs here, but also some other quantum presence masquerading as it as well? who knows?)

While I dont have any answers (but alot more questions), I am sincerely looking (and as you may be aware, weeding out the B.S. where I see it). There's alot, and I mean *alot* of very shady people in the UFO field. There's also alot of weak minded people, hence why the scumbags are here too-here's a cash cow to be had.

There's all too much of a draw to "believe", in this theory or that one, this case or that case, this guy or that guy. Everyone wants an answer they think theyre entitled to. Well, there may not be one. The sooner we realize that the better we'll all be.

It's also time to get critical, more now then ever. If I dont know anything else, I know this is an important subject to look at. I saw how it impacted my life, and some around me...I cant imagine how it might impact someone else. For that reason alone, it's time to cease the garbage and get serious. Turn your backs to frauds, and expose the fakes. The sooner thats out of the way the sooner we'll see what we *do* have, rather then argue the obvious like we've been doing. Let the kool-aid drinking community have their delusion, we got looking to do, and better things to study. While we argue with cultists and zealots, the enigma waits.

Maybe it's next showing will give us more to go on.

Christ, someone slap me...I can ramble for hours.


Night night.

[edit on 8-11-2007 by jritzmann]



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by thinkofitnow
 


well i've been through a lot of crap with abductions....and i'm happy to say i've never felt sick, or been ill in relation to the visitations....

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 
Great post jritzmann. I've had a few strange experiences myself but don't like to say it was aliens or ET that caused them so I feel I have to use quotation marks a lot, (till I have more answers). I've also spoken to "abductees", and even though they had their experiences, and remember them with clarity and without hypnosis, they feel the need to surround every second word in inverted commas. It's extremely bizarre, but real, and I'm sure there's much more to it than is commonly thought. I'm sure it's intelligent, definitely invisible, and probably around us a lot, (maybe all the time).

[edit on 9-11-2007 by wigit]



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 




I always called it being an "experiencer". The other term has regulated itself to "aliens" and "ETs", and I dont buy into any of that. I'm surprised ya didnt know, I wrote a *huge* post about it maybe a year ago now...maybe more? I dunno. But yeah, safe to say I am.


Oh right on.
Experiencer is a better word. I probably missed that post as I seem to go in spurts on ATS.




The vast majority of experiences I remember outright, with no help. There's little reason to probe into risky nonsense and possibly screw up my perception of events.


I have heard some experiencers don't remember anything while some rememeber a great deal. Is there any chance that what you remember is actually a false memory?




As far as Hopkins and Jacobs, while both seem like nice people, they both also have locked on to a theory they wont easily get out of. Both have sold works based on said theory, and therefore have an agenda to fill in that regard. Do I, or would I trust either? No.


Yes even the most sincere people can get stuck in one way of thinking and find it difficult to consider options. Especially (as you pointed) out that their books are based on a hypothesis and by shifting stances they could end up discrediting themselves in the eyes of many.

I was impressed with the analysis Jacobs gave on false memory syndrome, pop culture contamination, screen memories, consciously recalled events, leading the witness, confabulation, and mutual confirmational fantasies. I.E. he informs us that screen memories can not account for all experiencers memories. He says this is because screen memories are usually from some experience in the distant past like a bad childhood experience. He states that experiencers have called him literally minutes after being taken and this is not characteristic of screen memories.

He also questions whether experiencers are really believable or if they are just a psychologically generated fantasy. The answer is no due to the physical evidence of people found missing. He gave a good example of an account by a family all having unusual experiences.

"Janet Morgan's younger sister, Beth, came to babsit for her niece, 6-year old Kim, while Janet went out on a date. Beth, who had experienced suspicious, but uninvestigated events, had babysat for Kim before and was familiar with her routine.

This night Kim was sitting on the couch in the living room watching TV, and Beth decided to take a bath, since the child was occupied. She got into the tub with a novel, and began to read. A "mental haze" came over her and she sat in the tub with her eyes trained on the same page in the book for over an hour. Suddenly, she snapped out of it, jumped up and thought, "Kim!" She threw on her clothes and raced downstairs to see if the little girl was ok.

Kim was not on the couch. Beth went into every room in house and called for her. She looked behind the couch and in the closet. Then she searched the rooms a 2nd time. Panicking, she ran outside and looked up and down the street, shouting for Kim. The next door neighbor was outside and asked if everything was ok. Beth told him that Kim was missing. The neighbor ran into the house to search for himself and found Kim sleeping on the couch in plain view. Kim had been taken, Beth had been "switched off," and when she came to consciousness a little too soon, Kim had not yet been returned from the event."

While the "physically missing part" obviously eliminates the possiblity that an experiencer is just generating psychological fantasies, what I found more interesting was the part about an individual being "switched off." Have you heard of this or even had someone close to you experience this?




I think the important part to acknowledge right now is that the enigma has a very big edge in controlling perceptions.


Without a doubt! Very interesting subject. Not hard to see why certain individuals (probably in the NSA) are very silent on this issue. I'm sure they have studied it and found some thing that are very unnerving, yet they also are dealing with so many missing pieces it would be pointless to come forward with just another incomplete picture.




As much as people dont want to admit it, not even me...there's every chance these beings exist very close to us, perhaps even in the room youre in now, but we cannt see them, nor percieve them.


It is possible sure. Leading physicists tell us there are probably a countless number of other universes and that some may be literally an inch from us but we cannot perceive it.



By-in-large people are lazy. They want the "reader's digest" answer...and there isnt one, or we'd have it by now. But, people like to talk...and here we are today. Still stuck to a ET theory that has no more basis then it ever did. It's just the easy answer. (here's a random scary thought: what if there are ETs here, but also some other quantum presence masquerading as it as well? who knows?)


Yes I get stuck on a hypothesis for awhile and then I'll find new information and tweak it or perhaps even discard my previous hypothesis entirely. I still have a lot of faith in parts of the "nuts & bolts" UFOs after reading the work of aeronautical engineer Paul R. Hill. His theories on how an anti-gravity field (or equivalent) might work seem to explain alot of UFO flight characterstics including: colors (particularly colors at different observed speed or power levels of the craft), lack of sound, lack of sonic boom, ability to protect any occupants from G forces, ability to perform amazing manuevers, ability to overcome problems of frictional heating etc.

All one has to do is imagine a few more technological gadgets that they might have at their disposal and it's easy to believe a cloaked ship traveling at an insane speed could swoop into US air space (undetected) and take someone. Of course, if UFO experiences all come down to "nuts & bolts," then one has to wonder how many soil and sperm samples these beings want? Which I suppose gave rise to the DNA harvesting and alien/human hybrid hypothesis'. An attempt to make some sense out of the repitition.

Well I have go to for a bit. I'll write more later peace JR



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 09:23 PM
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i no this thread is about the side effects of abductions but how do u no uve been abducted, cuz i felt really paranoid and ive never touched drugs ever in my life i dont even no wut they smell like. also a lot of the time i feel like someone is watchin me so im just wondering if that is a side effect



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 

First off, I appreciate your sharing of thought...
You give me the impression that you have been dealing with your experiences in your "own way." Especially so when you describe your opinions of possibly opposing those whom practice hypnosis because of their personal ambitions (understandable)..
But other hypnotherapists I'm sure really do help others who aren't as adept with memory or dealing with these types of things.
For those who don't have the intestinal fortitude or abilities to deal with issues such as yourself, I feel that hypnosis really may assist them in finding a way to deal. Maybe for them, there really isn't any other way because they block their memories for fear of disbelief or fear of reality. This holds true whether we speak of the "alien" subject, or any other personal subject. I too have had to deal with much (as far as my experiences in the military are concerned). It seems to me that we all find our own ways of dealing with extreme circumstances. My impression from your replies leads me to believe that you have definitely found your way of dealing with yours.
Are you concerned about what you might remember if you were to submit to hypnosis? Perhaps not.
Thanks so much for making my first thread so interesting!


[edit on 10-11-2007 by thinkofitnow]

[edit on 10-11-2007 by thinkofitnow]

[edit on 10-11-2007 by thinkofitnow]



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by thinkofitnow
But other hypnotherapists I'm sure really do help others who aren't as adept with memory or dealing with these types of things.
For those who don't have the intestinal fortitude or abilities to deal with issues such as yourself, I feel that hypnosis really may assist them in finding a way to deal.


Well if theyre into believing something that in all likelihood didnt happen, yes. Like I said, the psychology field did a huge write up many, many years ago on regression hypnotherapy, and leveled it as a way to retrieve memories. It's not been found to be reliable, and can be exceptionally dangerous in many cases.

It essentially comes down to this: there's too much cultural contamination for it to be worth *anything* at this point. People are well aware of the alien abduction scenario, their appearance, and "proceedures". When someone is hypnotized and put in a suggestive state, and "recalls" this kind of thing, that person is forever changed. These "therapists" are changing who these people are. That aint good.

So, people who think this might have happened to them, walk into a hynotherapists office and want to be regressed...guess what theyre going to "recall" regardless of what actually happened.

I made the conscious decision not to put anything in there that didnt happen. Nor even take the chance of remotely doing so. Thats "my way", as you say.



posted on Nov, 12 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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Well said.
I've never done hypnotherapy myself, however I do have a friend who's used it to quit smoking, and it seems to have worked for now.

I'll do some more reading on the subject..

Take care, and thanks again for your contributions!




posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by thinkofitnow
 


Hey there,

Loving the thread some very interesting posts, would like to make a contribution if it's worth anyhthing to your info search.

I, in the terminology of jritzmann am an 'experiencer', as for ailments and diseases as a result; there is one ailment I know is a result of my abduction (there I said it ... but no victim in this girl)
... the second I couldn't honestly say either way but I'm inclined to say it wasn't related.

1. Migraine - never had one in my life before the exerience but over the 10 yrs since it happened, they have gradually increased from 3-4 per year to quite often 3-4 per week. (this I'm positive is a result of the procedure that took place ... but obviously I can't prove that, just seems to be a big coincidence if they're not connected)

2. Rheumatoid Arthritis - shortly after the event (4-6 wks), I started getting bouts of fatigue. I don't mean feeling a bit knackered ... I mean going from feeling fine one minute, to literally feeling the energy drain from me; to the point where I would have to lie down before I collapsed. At first I thought I had ME, but I was eventually diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. The pain started in my right thumb joint ... within 3mths I had it in 75% of my joints and was bedridden for almost a year ... Depression ? ... yeah, at it's hight I considered ending it ... not because I couldn't handle the pain, but I couldn't handle my family having to do everything for me (even though they did it willingly and without hesitation), I was a young woman and the humiliation was unbearable. Then the combination of medication that I was given started to work and now I'm back to normal. But as I said before I can't say in all honesty that this wouldn't have happened anyways. (I should also state that I'm a natural fighter and depression/suicidal thoughts are an alien concept to me normally),if you'll pardon the pun


(jritzmann); I agree with the things you said about hypnosis. I am a reputable Regression Therapist but never use hypnosis for that very reason ... it is all too easy to inadvertantly 'suggest' when asking the client questions in such a state ... no matter how careful you are, and that produces false/inaccurate memories. I refuse to use that technique on any of my clients and would never regress an 'abductee' under any circumstances with any technique. The way I see it ... if they are meant to remember they will, without prompting of any kind.

(Denynothing); trust me ... when it happens to you, you'll know.

Hope this is useful to you (thinkofitnow);if you'd like to know more about my experience I have two threads you might want to read; (I NEED FEEDBACK ON THIS 'ABDUCTION' EXPERIENCE; parts 1 & 2)

Love and Light. woodwytch



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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I was abducted at about 12:00AM on the 23rd of October 1982, I beleive I was on a nordic ship by the look of them. They put some kind of hat on my head, I felt it scanning my thoughts as it was some kind of mind reading device, I could sense that they were stranded here, after travelling all the way from the Pleiades system they had met some minor turbulance in the earth's lower atmosphere and crash landed, now without a nuclear reaction to generate 1.21 gigawatts of electricity needed to power the ship they would never return home. I think they sensed I had not the anser and I soon found myself back at home in bed, the alarm clock was ringing - now it was 8:00AM. That's 8 about hours of missing time I have never been able to explain it.

[edit on 13-11-2007 by manix]



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 08:02 AM
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When i was younger i used to read all these alien stories, and alien abductions of people, told by the abductees, And well i did read of a few cases where people did get healed. Some healed by standing in front of a huge crystal. Others cut open and then healed on a table, etc



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by woodwytch
 

Thanks for your reply...I'm checking out your threads now.
Very interesting...

Take care & have a great weekend!





posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by manix
 


lol

uh- huh...

funny...

but I'm actually trying to keep this thread "for real" or at least "real" to those who have had a genuine experience..



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by DaRAGE
 


Standing in front of a crystal?
That's something I haven't heard of before.
Do you remember where you read about abduction related stories concerning these crystal healings? I would be interested to read about it too.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by thinkofitnow

Have there been any abductees out there to suffer from any types of ailments or diseases following an "abduction?"
In addtion, has there been anyone "abducted" in the past to have miraculously been "cured" or fail to further suffer from these unlucky happenings since abduction?
I would also like to include depression, or any other mental "issues."
Obviously, if the abduction subject concerns "experiments" or such things, I've always wondered, because I've never heard anyone say yay or nay.
Anyone out there want to contribute or know of a friend or family member who can contribute?


For awhile my colds would last longer than normal, although it's not as long as it used to, earlier I had a average cold, wasn't too bad. During that point in time I believe something happened, and my cold stayed with me for at least another week. Looking at my old diary posts, the same thing has happened several times since I was small. Depression? I have it on occasion, was diagnosed with it at one point, but was 'treated' and I no longer require medication (depression runs in our family though). As of late my left index finger (at the joint) has been hurting, though it is on again off again kind of situation, don't know what started that though


oh and scram: love your pic. O_O

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Chiiru]



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 08:57 PM
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Sorry 2 hear about the lingering "colds"...
Thanks for the compliments on the pic.
I've just discovered today that my image hosting site is having problems.
I'm trying to correct this now.

Thanks again for your addition to the thread!

Talk 2 you soon...



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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Just like all threads on this website, there's a lot of posts, most having nothing to do with the question asked.

I've heard of one case where somebody said they were operated on and had a tumor removed during their abduction. Keep in mind some people end up with strange scoop marks and scars after an abduction and they claimed to have been opened up and examined or had their eyes removed and all kinds of weird stuff. So possibly if the aliens found a problem they could correct, they'd do so on the spot.


[edit on 25-11-2007 by Elhardt]



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 10:55 PM
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Woah, holy Jeff photo taking up the whole screen. Just playing
. Interesting experiences and things I have thought of about, being an abductee. It is quite the opposite with being sick. I have never had an infection or been sick since the abductions began. Roughly 10 years ago. As for curing illness. I had bowel problems a few months ago. The doctors thought it was colon cancer. I was worried sick about it. Then I had an abduction where a rod like instrument was stuck up my anus (bare with me, I know) and a bloody mass was taking out of my rectum. Since then the bleeding has ceased and I feel completely recovered. The doctors still don't know what caused the bleeding in the first place. I'm also a horrible driver and in a way feel protected. There are so many people I have almost hit. And I have swerved into on-comeing traffic many times (horrible car). To be completely safe or when about to hit someone unexplicably look to my left or right or whatever to see a kid run out or something. So I do feel "protected" in a sense. Best of luck in searching for your answers!



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by Chiiru
 




oh and scram: love your pic. O_O


Thanks
Chiiru. Although Jeff is the image expert with the coolest avatar.




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