Using Logic and critical thinking, I can prove the existence of GOD.

Originally posted by freeradical
If we are talking about a Christian view of 'God', well in the old testament this God comes across as a brutal and savage entity who killed a lot of people by drowning. I find it quite repugnant to believe in such a thing.

I will say this though, we humans limited by our senses and technology have a great deal of life that we have yet to discover and fully understand.

Or he killed a bunch of evil incarnate, filled with prime evil to save the chance of humanity existing.

Although honestly many of the old testament stories, in my view, are lessons not literal things. I think somethings were lost in the translations. Although I live under the new Covenant where the power of Jesus is available to all.

I do follow the new testament more then the old, there are explanations for why the methods in the two are different, in the old testament God did not have his Spirit available to all, so evil reigned. After the world was retaken, the battle of light and dark can now be won simply with faith and the power of the Love of Jesus.

There is no GOD in CHURCH! you see the devils manipulate the true creator! they always make it against us.

After you die, if you think your safe going to the "Light" ........actually the devils will capture you. They too control the astral realm however they cannot hurt our spirit. We still have the net around our planet to keep us in a prison world.

There is only one god! its the ONE! we are connected to this one soul from spirit. Meaning animals, plants, the ocean......rocks......planets and aliens. Doesnt matter, all things are connected to the creator.

Forget about religions for each "race" and whos the better one, we are the human race connected to all life, all is equal.

This is what the devils/reptilians have done to us, kept us in a world of illusion. We always compete with each other, too busy fighting each other. So will never get to the real truth with what is happening to us.

We are peaceful and loving beings, killing is not natural to humans at all. They have manipulated us beyond belief. But thier time is coming, all will be come undone and revealed.

Mother earth has called for help, the creator is sending Nibiru to break the force field on our planet......this is when they will use this event to stage an alien invasion.

Personally, if any of you believe what you believe it's because of the different thoughts you have weighed during your lifetime, and what you've heard and decided to validate or not. It's merely opinions. Deciding whether god exsists or not is irrelevant to me because my past faith fell apart so easily. It would be nice if god said, "Hey you ant, I'm real, and I'm going to change things for the better...". Unfortunately, I have decided I won't wait around to see if that happens. Accepting that there is a POSSIBILITY where the word(by word, i don't mean the bible) exsists seems the healthiest to me. I am very confused, however, when others feel the need to tell others the way they feel about this or that, is wrong. If someone wants to believe in god, let them. Why go around trying to make them feel stupid? Maybe that's not your intentions, so I apologize if I'm coming across presumptious. Not believing in him/her is just as fine.
I can see where people on both sides are coming from, so why not try to be a little more open-minded?

Not saying I don't believe in a higher power.

However thats a really poor argument...the only advantage you have is that it's hard to explain.

Originally posted by Kacen
However thats a really poor argument...the only advantage you have is that it's hard to explain.

Well the only thing worse then a poor argument is a counter that leaves you wondering, what points in the argument are wrong?

Could you fill out a little more, which argument is poor, and why it is inaccurate, where do the presumptions, symbolism, or analogies break down.

The human conscience is the best proof that there is a God, and that we were created, not evolved. The conscience is diametrically opposed to the idea of survival at any cost, and it only exists in humans. I have heard it mentioned somewhere that God “wrote his commandments on the hearts of all humans”, meaning that he gave us the golden rule which exists in all religions. That set of rules forms the basic operating system of the conscience.

Anyway OP, good topic, but bad logic. I kept expecting microwaves to come up in this at some point.

jedimiller that is the most pathetic reason ive heard,

"just cause you cant see him doesnt mean hes not there" ya that sure is logic (sarcasm)

come on, seriously the day god comes down from his throne and shows himself (and his powers to me) ill be a good little catholic. (or maybe the Devil pays better)

anyway once you have an argument i that isnt stupid, isnt a paradox and cannot be easily dissproven get back to me. (by the way try to make it challenging)

I thought there was going to be some logic.... looking around... put your hand down JediMiller.... still looking around. I think you should get back to posting about your theory that Michael Jackson was abducted by aliens... that had more logic in it than this, and that isn't saying much.

Believing in God is great if that is what you honestly believe in your heart, but if you want to prove his existence to the rest of us, you are going to have to put a little more thought into it than that. Seriously.

reply to post by Osiris1953


yep agree

The OP has so many flaws and is so stupid i can't even be bothered to mention them. Makes you wonder is this the reason they believe? They can not see past the lies?

Originally posted by jedimiller

I watched Star Wars when I was 4 in 1978. I thought the characters were real.



I have about 200 figures and vehicles all displayed around the room. d

Myabe its time to....uh! Honestly I dont know...You stumped me.

jon, you make the assumption I dont believe in a god. If you assume I dont believe in a religious god, you would be right. Otherwise, you have made a wrong connection. I said your assumptions are what annoy me. I do not know what you feel, nor do I claim to. But to presume you know that your feeling is beyond anything a non believer can feel is ignorant and naive.

The feeling I had at that time may have been more wonderous than anything you have ever felt, but it may have been just another feeling to you. To assume that you know what it is though shows your lack of understanding about the people around you.

It shows, beyond all else, that you are close minded. I don't say that as an insult, but insight. It shows you are close minded because you presume you know what others feel. Not true? Well you say it is a feeling that a non believer couldn't possibly know. You are saying you know what they feel or don't feel. That shows how close minded you are. I can know your feelings no more than you can know mine.

You dont know what I have felt, or if what I have felt is a greater feeling than what you feel. To say so is to show your inability to get past your own narrow view of the world.

The fact is that there are a great many people out there like you. They are all looking for answers. Is there a god? What is my purpose? Is there life after death? Followed by more and more questions. There is one underlying purpose to these never ending questions. Fear. People are afraid of accepting this notion that they may not figure it out. That they may not know if there is or is not a god. Refusing this possibility, they assume. They jump to conclusions and hope it holds up. The idea of saying "I don't know" scares people. By saying I don't know you accept the fact there are unknowns in this world. The unknown leads to unpredictability, and that will lead to unexpected changes. These things interfer with our safe, structured lives we have grown use to.

See the answer to the question of "is there a god?" doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is the root of the question, and why it is being asked. It is not asked out of clarification but fear. Whether or not a god exists is irrelevent to me because I will not change if it is one result or another. So when I ask that question, it is not a question I need an answer to. You won't find me often asking "Is there a god?" and when I do, it is usually a result of exercising my brain by thinking.

So my point is, you assume out of fear, like many others. You fear because if you didn't assume the answer, you wouldn't know where to stand. If you didn't assume a god existed, you wouldn't know where to stand morally most likely. Not definately, but most likely. If you didn't assume to know how I feel, you wouldn't be able to feel so sure that your "connection" to god was as strong as you would want to believe it is.

If the truth to every question determines your character, then you had no character to begin with.

reply to post by grimreaper797


I see where you are coming from in your reply but I can honestly say that i am not close minded. when i found God i wasn't even looking at the time. I just attended church because my wife asked me to go for a couple of weeks.
As for feelings, I would love to explain further but this is not the place to do so.

So my point is, you assume out of fear, like many others. You fear because if you didn't assume the answer, you wouldn't know where to stand. If you didn't assume a god existed, you wouldn't know where to stand morally most likely. Not definatley, but most likely. If you didn't assume to know how I feel, you wouldn't be able to feel so sure that your "connection" to god was as strong as you would want to believe it is.

I'm afraid i cant agree with this statement, in fact if you knew me it would be almost laughable. I just tell things as they are from knowing and not knowing God. I have been on both sides of the fence so to speak.
I fear nothing that life can throw at me, whether it be mental or physical.
I just got out of hospital after a mini stroke and i have cancer, but do i worry, NO, i just get on with life and try to share what i know with others if they ask.
Anyway, some good points to think about for both of us.
Cheers
jon

hello all. well, I was away for a day or two and came back to all this confusion. sorry if I confused some of you. I know my OP makes no sense. Perhaps I didn't think it over as much as I should have.

Yes, air has been proven scientifically..but has psychology been proven scientifically? can you believe that you have a right and left brain? and can you believe that a certain area of the brain does one thing and does another? based on a study? or what freud says the brain does?

if we are going to base things off studies and research then I say look at the research that has been done about GOD and what people believe. the research suggests that people created religions, churches and places to pray and gather..and how did they come up with that conclusion you say? what made them build tall buidlings and create things based on nothing you say? if God was not real, do you think we would just make it up from nothing? I say no. look around you, look at the bible, at churches, at your wife..they belive in this..and it's real to them. it's real to me. therefore it becomes real.


here's another analogy that might help. 3D animation. it's not real, yet we pay millions of $$$ a year to go watch movies based on nothing...those characters don't even exist. shrek does not exist, but a computer made it real. the same way our beliefs make things real. and our beliefs have made god real.

in conclusion. if we make GOD real..he's real and there's no room left for arguments.

Here it is again with this kind of debate. Okay, first of all, Santa Claus was a real person who lived about the same time or a little after St. Nicholas who also was a real person in Russia. Read some history books to see what they both did and how they both helped poor boys and girls around before the 1800's. There are books written about those two people, I doubt if there are any books about many people here, including me.

As for God, Exact Uncertainty in Physics was mathematically proved in 2003. So, if the Universe is Random, how come you or someone is not falling apart, and why would Protons live longer than you will? If it is a Set of Probabilites after Exact Uncertainty and the Heisenberg Uncertainty which are both the same, how come there is only a little Chaos in the Universe and the Universe does not Randomly Fall Apart?

If you can not explain it and can not go beyond physics into Metaphysics, then why would anyone think that there is not something else that defines how a Set of Probabilities keep giving what is preceived as a LifeForce to this Universe?

If not, then please submit your papers for review as I am sure, that other people would be interested in hearing your professional opinions backed up by some kind of experiment to Not Prove the Existence of what is termed "God".

It is not a Feeling, nor some other imagination, it is only through hard work that you will know God.

Hard Work, does not mean actually all physical work, it means "All" Activity like thinking, preceiving, knowing and exclaiming that "There be Something Else to All of Existence".

No one can prove that God does not exist either!

Originally posted by captainslowTG
so if the wind blows on me, and it is real, then if god blows on me then he is real

that's a very poor argument. but it makes sense in a way. when god speaks to you, you should listen. And god controls the wind, so next time you are walking to your local church or other, take a listen more closely.

Just for the sake of not having to read through all these posts and debate this subject, I'll put this very bluntly.

We are all god! We are god, we are satan, we are the wind blowing in your face. You just don't see it yet because your journey has not reached that point. It's the language that is really screwing things up here. God? The Holy Spirit? Satan? Etc? We are all a part of the "source"(god, if you want to call it that), it's just that some people are more aware/awake than others.

Originally posted by Conundrum04


We are all god! We are god, we are satan, we are the wind blowing in your face.

And very blunty you have. this is the most absurd comment i've ever heard since joining ATS. How can you come to the conclusion that we are all satan? wow, that's just offensive and horrible to say to someone. I know it was not directed at me. but how can you say something like that and expect a fair response?

Originally posted by jedimiller

Originally posted by captainslowTG
so if the wind blows on me, and it is real, then if god blows on me then he is real

that's a very poor argument. but it makes sense in a way. when god speaks to you, you should listen. And god controls the wind, so next time you are walking to your local church or other, take a listen more closely.

If scalar technology is to be believed,the HARP facility can control the weather and technically the wind with it.

I guess God may not be only one to control the "wind".

Also with new directional sound "beam" technology which can create a voice/sound only to the target which no one else can hear....

Give them a few years, soon they will have the technology to project the "sounds" into the head of the target without needing the ears to hear it.

That's why they are hiding alien/hi tech from the masses, soon they will be able to play God to those who maybe ignorant of these technologies.

Logic and critical thinking does help but not when they are overidden by faith.

You are going to need better reasoning skills as well.

Originally posted by jedimiller
if we are going to base things off studies and research then I say look at the research that has been done about GOD and what people believe. the research suggests that people created religions, churches and places to pray and gather..and how did they come up with that conclusion you say? what made them build tall buidlings and create things based on nothing you say? if God was not real, do you think we would just make it up from nothing? I say no. look around you, look at the bible, at churches, at your wife..they belive in this..and it's real to them. it's real to me. therefore it becomes real.

Are you serious? Just because there's a book about it and some building it's true? Then that means all the religions in the world is true because humans beings have never made anything up just for nothing. I mean, why would they? Humans never lie. You should re-read and re-think what you just wrote. Better learning it from yourself than me.

No one is saying it's based on nothing, maybe couple of stories or wishful thinking which got taken too seriously.

Originally posted by jedimiller
here's another analogy that might help. 3D animation. it's not real, yet we pay millions of $$$ a year to go watch movies based on nothing...those characters don't even exist. shrek does not exist, but a computer made it real. the same way our beliefs make things real. and our beliefs have made god real.

in conclusion. if we make GOD real..he's real and there's no room left for arguments.

We goto watch movies for entertainment. Shrek is still based on something.

Doesn't matter what people believe but what the truth really is. It's like dreams, are they really happening? We feel the pain and our senses working (this also apply to your OP) but is it realilty?

Well, you bring up a good point. Scientifically, dreams have never been proven. therefore they have to be false right? same ideology applies to the believing in god.