Premise: When you are walking down the street you feel the cool air hitting your face. you look around, yet you see nothing. Air is invisible.

Conclusion: you don't see the Air, but you came to the conclusion that if you feel it in your face. it must be real. Therefore, something that you can't see has suddenly become real. And you have accepted that fact.


GOD.

Premise. When you are walking down the street on your way to church, you feel good. warm and happy. You belive in god and you know he's there watching you. and you pray to him.

Conclusion. You don't see God, but you came to the conclusion that if you Feel god, it must be real. therefore, god is real. and you have accepted that fact. The fact that, it doesn't matter if you can see something or not. But if you FEEL it. you know it's real.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by jedimiller]

I would say this is a nice try, but it isn't.

You are comparing a physical feeling to a emotional feeling. You can capture air, you can physically touch it and you can examine it and break it down to its basic elements. You can not do any of these things with God, the only proof you have that he exists is your belief or faith in him. It's not logical or critical thinking at all.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by LDragonFire]

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I would say this is a nice try, but it isn't.

well, I tried. But what's to say that GOD is not a physical entity like air? can you prove that it isn't? and if so, you wouldn't be able to see him, but feel him.

All I know is that Beliefs are real. based on something solid or not. and that translates to reality. would you agree with that?

I believe that god is inside of all of us. He is not an immortal being as is commonly perceived. He is nirvana through meditation. The ephiphany of epiphanies. Truth, Light and Love all merged into one.

Originally posted by jedimiller

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I would say this is a nice try, but it isn't.

well, I tried. But what's to say that GOD is not a physical entity like air? can you prove that it isn't? and if so, you wouldn't be able to see him, but feel him.

All I know is that Beliefs are real. based on something solid or not. and that translates to reality. would you agree with that?

So Santa and the Easter bunny are real because millions of children believe in them?

I can't prove God doesn't exist, and I'm not really willing to try to do so. I'm agnostic to the core, religions are false, and are not of God, IMHO

Originally posted by jedimiller

GOD.

Premise. When you are walking down the street on your way to church, you feel good. warm and happy. You belive in god and you know he's there watching you. and you pray to him.

Conclusion. You don't see God, but you came to the conclusion that if you Feel god, it must be real. therefore, god is real. and you have accepted that fact. The fact that, it doesn't matter if you can see something or not. But if you FEEL it. you know it's real.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by jedimiller]

What if you don't believe in God? You are falling into the same trap as all other upholders of religious faith - you presume your unqualified belief is enough. You refer to emotions such as happiness. You may feel happy for a lot of reasons, all of which can be attributed to something 'real' - wether it is there in front of you, it is in the future and you are looking forward to it, or a past experience. The only thing that cannot be classed as 'real' that may make some people feel happy is God. There is no objective evidence to suggest that God is real. Simply believing and feeling good about your/other's concept of God is not evidence. Your premise is not based on logic, reason or evidence. God is not air. God is not like air. God does not exist.



[edit on 5-11-2007 by Skunky]

I can explain the logic that teaches me that I should continue to believe and thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Because he teaches love, and has shown such great love to me I have no other desire then to please him with acts that follow his teachings.

Now if I was wrong and god was some yin yang neutral, I would want to show him it is possible to be better then accepting evil as just part of the norm.

If god was evil, I would want to spite him and would definitely want no part of his world, since he could not be trusted anyways, besides spiteing may be a form of evil so it would end up being right anyway.

If there was no god, then I have had the beauty of living a life with a holy spirit filled existence that somehow my faith created, making it real, thereby making no god a fallacy in my world perspective.

I thank my Lord and savior for the peace and clarity he has given me.

Originally posted by Redge777
If there was no god, then I have had the beauty of living a life with a holy spirit filled existence that somehow my faith created, making it real, thereby making no god a fallacy in my world perspective.

Where you say 'holy spirit' you could try inserting 'happiness' (or something similar). That means your faith has helped with your life and your beliefs have done you good. Wether God existed or not. You do not need God or faith to have a happy and productive satisfying life. All the good things religious belief provides can be had elsewhere. These things are not proof God exists.

Consider this:

On my way to the Folklore Believers Convention I think about my belief in fairies and it makes me feel happy, therefore it has had a discernible effect on me, making fairies real and lack of belief in fairies a fallacy in my world perspective.


Nonsense, isn't it?

God is not air. God is not like air. God does not exist.



God does exist. and he is real. I can assure you. recall reading my OOBE thread? well, in that thread, I spoke of meeting god and actually talking to him telephatically. but aside, from my beliefs, god is a lot like Air, you can't see it, but you can feel it. God is real because some of us can feel him.


we feel a lot of things, pain, shame, aches and things in the body that can't be explained. feelings are the soul speaking to us. the same way you feel the air on your face at night, but you can't see it.
so how can you say that there is no God when you haven't seen him?

Originally posted by Redge777
I can explain the logic that teaches me that I should continue to believe and thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What logic? Are you speaking about the book written by man, then ordained from God by other men?

Because he teaches love, and has shown such great love to me I have no other desire then to please him with acts that follow his teachings.

He also teaches genocide, slavery, sexism, just to name a few.

Now if I was wrong and god was some yin yang neutral, I would want to show him it is possible to be better then accepting evil as just part of the norm.

God created Everything according to your belief, good and bad.

If god was evil, I would want to spite him and would definitely want no part of his world, since he could not be trusted anyways, besides spiteing may be a form of evil so it would end up being right anyway.

Read the old testament.

If there was no god, then I have had the beauty of living a life with a holy spirit filled existence that somehow my faith created, making it real, thereby making no god a fallacy in my world perspective.

Now you are opening your eyes good for you.

I thank my Lord and savior for the peace and clarity he has given me.

Blind faith does not equal clarity by any stretch of the imagination, peace comes from within you, not by external forces.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by LDragonFire]

On my way to the Folklore Believers Convention I think about my belief in fairies and it makes me feel happy, therefore it has had a discernible effect on me, making fairies real and lack of belief in fairies a fallacy in my world perspective.


Nonsense, isn't it?

Not nonsense, if believing in fairies has given you the opportunity to feel happy and has worked, then there has to be something out there that has reached out to you. and anything that has an effect on you is real. do you see what i'm trying to say? anything out there that has caused an effect on you has a level of reality. therefore, this only proves that god DOES exist.

Originally posted by jedimiller
so how can you say that there is no God when you haven't seen him?

How can you be sure your intriguing experience was a real meeting with God and not just a psychological/medical experience that took on profound significance as a result of your faith?

How can you be sure you really met God? What if you had visioned grey aliens or fairies?



[edit on 5-11-2007 by Skunky]

Originally posted by jedimiller
Not nonsense, if believing in fairies has given you the opportunity to feel happy and has worked, then there has to be something out there that has reached out to you. and anything that has an effect on you is real. do you see what i'm trying to say? anything out there that has caused an effect on you has a level of reality. therefore, this only proves that god DOES exist.

I watched Star Wars when I was 4 in 1978. I thought the characters were real. They were heroic to me. It was a big influence on me. Star Wars is only real in the sense that it is a creation of someone's intent - the writer, director, crew, cast, studio bosses, distributor etc. It is real in that sense and it had an effect on me. It exists in context. The Bible exists but it that not make any of it's claims actual. Your belief in God is real. My example belief in fairies could have been equally real. But the subject of those beliefs is made no more real by the intensity of the belief itself.

Hi Jedimiller.

I understand where you are coming from on this topic but like so many people say, an experience does not make it real.
I am a Christian and I have had so many experiences with God, even where things are physical and can be seen by others, but the problem is that the only other people that see them are other Christians.
Things like Physical and emotional healing, words of knowledge and many other things that prove to us that God is real.
Even if none believers saw these things they would put it down to some sort of illusion. Heck, if Jesus could not convince some people what chance do we have.
The best thing we can do is just tell our story and leave the rest to God.
Cheers
John.

Originally posted by Skunky

Originally posted by jedimiller
Not nonsense, if believing in fairies has given you the opportunity to feel happy and has worked, then there has to be something out there that has reached out to you. and anything that has an effect on you is real. do you see what i'm trying to say? anything out there that has caused an effect on you has a level of reality. therefore, this only proves that god DOES exist.

I watched Star Wars when I was 4 in 1978. I thought the characters were real. They were heroic to me. It was a big influence on me. Star Wars is only real in the sense that it is a creation of someone's intent - the writer, director, crew, cast, studio bosses, distributor etc. It is real in that sense and it had an effect on me. It exists in context. The Bible exists but that does not make any of it's claims actual. Your belief in God is real. My example belief in fairies could have been equally real. But the subject of those beliefs is made no more real by the intensity of the belief itself.

I'm sorry, I don't know how I quoted myself.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
What logic? Are you speaking about the book written by man, then ordained from God by other men?

The logic I put in my post, it is self explanatory. Did I mention the bible or anything else, please understand there are many ways people worship and many Christians get a bad wrap from the ones that yell alot on TV.

He also teaches genocide, slavery, sexism, just to name a few.

I specifically said the teachings of Jesus Christ, he gave me one law, Love thy God, and Love thy neighbor, the rest can be spun many ways and we really don't need to get into battling interpretations of scripture.

God created Everything according to your belief, good and bad.

God created everything, evil is a result of the gift of free will, and us not choosing to follow his spirit, evil is the absence of God, so he did not create it as much as fill it with light and good. Only if through choice and his gift of free will, if you want to, you can reject his spirit, and that loss of light brings darkness. So who knows, maybe he did not create evil as much as end its existence since evil is the void of lacking the light of God.

Read the old testament.

I have, and I understand your point, but I have thoughts on this also, before Christ, God communicated and acted with man only through a few prophets, once his spirit as the holy spirit was given we all can be one with him and live in goodness, so this has changed the way in which things occur, no longer is man alone when fighting evil, evil can now be defeated with nothing more then love. And I personally am skeptical of some of the old testament accounts.

Now you are opening your eyes good for you.

according to your perspective, one I can understand, yet you can not grasp mine.

Blind faith does not equal clarity by any stretch of the imagination, peace comes from within you, not by external forces.

Faith is not blind, it is seeing the truth. Our discussion is one of perspective, prove me wrong. Peace comes from the gift of God.

Although I acknowledge God gave you the choice to think and choose as you wish, God Bless and thanks for the post.

I watched Star Wars when I was 4 in 1978. I thought the characters were real.



Hello Skunky, nice to meet another Star wars fan here. I watched star wars when I was about 5 or 6 too. I knew it was a movie, and it was not real. but Lucas made up this story and the images, so in his mind it's all very real. what's to say star wars is not real? it's real to me, you should see my room, I have about 200 figures and vehicles all displayed around the room. do you think that's not reality? it's very real. So you see, reality is perceived differently. but I want to point out that if 90% of people belive in god ( as seen in polls) then there has to be some solid reality to that, and therefore, i've concluded that god is real and you should too.

You know this whole point of thinking it exist makes it real was just covered by south park where they said the same thing. Just a little corrolation that may mean nothing.