Big Brother taking over in UK

Teenagers who refuse to work face on the spot fines

TEENAGERS who refuse to work, attend training or go to school are to be issued with on the spot fines under government proposals. Any who still fail to comply would then be taken to court where they could face further penalties.

See linkhere

In the end this leaves little choice and disregards some basics freedoms. I think it will generate alot of hardship and displacement on those that would already be having a hard enough time as it is.

Scary that your government can start financial punishing you for not belonging, fitting in or being a part of the system.

First they brought in being monitored by the cameras, now they are wanting to place more controls on their population. The next thing on the list...a public announcement system blaring control mantras at the population"

Resistance is futile....in Britain.



[edit on 5-11-2007 by Grimholt]

reply to post by Grimholt


:O amazing... I can't wait to get back to Scandinavia! I don' understand all this sudden need to control the single person in every little way.
I know from myself that it took a while to find out which direction to go and that I for certain did not know as a teenager what I was gonna be doing with my life.

Just trying to walk this down to its next possible terrible step.

If they made this a law for everyone they could start rounding up homeless people and put them in the work camps.

They also could fire anyone that speaks out against the corporate aims of society, and then after they are unable to get a new job, they could throw them in the new private ran prison camps that make cheap electronic parts in Texas.

This reminds me of the laws that created debtor prisons and work houses in early England.

Personally I'd give 'em National Service. Might get them to learn a bit of respect for others and other's property, and social responsibility that way ..... rather than just going through life with no care but themselves and expecting the state to provide everything.

But I do agree that one of the big problems with this country - or, at least, some members of society - is Big Brother.

The TV show that is.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by Essan]

Originally posted by Essan
Personally I'd give 'em National Service. Might get them to learn a bit of respect for others and other's property, and social responsibility that way ..... rather than just going through life with no care but themselves and expecting the state to provide everything.
[edit on 5-11-2007 by Essan]

I have known a lot of people that could not find their way for some period of time but they eventually landed on their feet and are now sheeple like the rest of us.

Not sure that National service would have benefited from their participation though although they might have.

It's where this can lead to thats scary.

You are not acting like a proper slave-have another fine.
You kids are too fat-have another fine.
You can't smoke here-have another fine.
You can't say that word-have another fine.
You have produced too much carbon-have another fine.
You are breathing-have another fine.
You have no papers-have another fine.
You are resisting complete state control-have another fine.
You are thinking-have another fine,and some prozac.

You will be assimilated.
You will enjoy your enslavement and attack others who call you a slave.
This is the UK.

Ain't it just peachy?

reply to post by Silcone Synapse

You left out

You can't pay your fines, here is your new cell and workbench for 50 cents an hour.

reply to post by Grimholt


Couple of points here,

this is a political exercise, designed to look as though the government is doing something about the numbers of unemployed young people, and those feral youngsters who roam the streets armed with knives and guns. And at this stage it is only an idea.

First they brought in being monitored by the cameras, now they are wanting to place more controls on their population. The next thing on the list...a public announcement system blaring control mantras at the population"

This has been covered so many times - most cameras in the UK are owned and used by private company's for store protection against criminals.
Local governments cameras are used to keep an eye on town and city centres (as well as suburbs) the result of which is that our streets are safer, for the most part.
The PA systems have had a limited trial.

The US has much more insidious forms of freedom infringing surveillance (inc NSA), and has used the homeland security act to hassle anyone who has ever disagreed with bush.

Actaully, this is a good idea to raise the age-bar on compulsory education/training to 18.

Not all kids are academically inclined, many are just as practically-talented ;but with little on offer in that form of school-education which is heavily skewed to the academic, these kids who aren't into books fall by the wayside and tend to leave school at the the first opportunity at 16. Unfortunately, there are very few employers that will take on a 16y.o. with few formal qualifications, and there are just as few decent practical training opportunities

The measures are designed to enforce a new law which will be outlined in this week’s Queen’s speech. It will say that all teenagers must remain in education, training or employment until they are 18

Those children under 16 under current law who refuse to attend school are actually in breach of a legal contract between parent and school.

When you join school, your parents sign a consent allowing the school legal guardianship of your child with the legal definition of 'In Loco Parentis' If you aren't in class, but wandering the streets, the school is still legally liable if anything happens to you.

It may seem somewhat strange and 'big brother-ish' but the British state is like a stern nanny, doing whats best for us, and ultimately free school-educating, financially supporting via the welfare state, and ensuring healthcare through the NHS all for the benefit of UK citizens from cradle-to-grave...just as Beveridge Report in 1942 outlined

"...that the government should find ways of fighting the five 'Giant Evils' of Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness"

That said, we have seen a huge rise in vocational training programmes over the last 20 years or so - precisely designed for kids who can't go the academic route. NVQ's,HNDs etc can be a springboard to a vocational degree, something which has helped many youngsters fresh out of school and ideas.
I would welcome this change in law as progressive and indicative of the concern over higher levels of education.

The next logical step would be to make Higher Education free for all (again) too, with the opportunity to gain NVQ/Higher National/City&Guilds practical education that is ranked in status alongside the traditional degree.

Originally posted by citizen smith
The next logical step would be to make Higher Education free for all (again) too, with the opportunity to gain NVQ/Higher National/City&Guilds practical education that is ranked in status alongside the traditional degree.

Actually, Higher Education is practically free via nightschool.

I support the ideas put forward in the Government Paper. What else can they do to kids that bluntly refuse to work then hold their hands out for benefits?

I would add National Service to the list of choices for the kids though

Just a side-note. A HND is a good qualification, considered the equivalent of a degree in some countries. In the US some also consider the HND to be equivalent of an American Associate Degree, due to the length of study.

In the UK and according to the Stratford business school, a HND is equivalent to the first two years of a business degree. Some graduates also use their HNDs to progress straight onto Msc courses.

Depending on the field, some British job adverts routinely require a HND/degree plus relevant experience.

I myself have undertook such study, and found it far from 'non-academic'. It took two years full-time, and incorporated projects, essays and exams in multiple disciplines as well as a European language and knowledge of the European Union.

One of our group projects resulted in $300,000 funding in order to develop next-generation manufacturing technology.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by Ross Cross]

This a good idea to get these minority of youths back into education and to do something with there lives instead of hanging around the streets picking up benefits and selling drugs or using drugs and committing crimes.

By the time they realise they've made mistakes in life and there futures are amounting to nothing It's to late for them to change there ways resulting in them living there lives in and out of prison and draining the the resources of the Government.

A certain section of the population need a good kick up arse because it's not fair for the hardworking population to carry these wasters!

[edit on 5uMonday07/27/20 by paul76]

About time as well, im sick to the back teeth of driving my children to school every morning past the local post office to see a line of wasters waiting for the Giro so they can go buy a cans of larger So they can sit outside the local YMCA and town centre drinking smoking effin and blinding at each other, these are the wasters that don't want to work but because they know they can collect there money and do nothing but make our cities and towns a disgrace, then when there money runs out where do you think they get more ? not all but a vast majority get into crime to pay for the rest of the weeks drinking.

Then you have the young teenagers who don't want to go to school, college to get an education so they can get a decent job to pay there way in life most would rather sooner get pregnant or get some girl pregnant so they can claim there benefits, im not saying every young person is like this but there's a vast majority that are.

So this comes as a surprise to me but its been well over due make them go to school, college or get jobs to get them off benefits and off our streets causing all kinds of trouble is an excellent idea, personally tho i would like to see a system of when they do leave school if you wont work or go to college its national service, which would teach them a profession, morals, and respect for other people.

In the end this leaves little choice and disregards some basics freedoms. I think it will generate a lot of hardship and displacement on those that would already be having a hard enough time as it is.

how you can say that confuses me Grimholt, Most people on the Dole are there to actually find a job and get along in life but there is a majority that are just bums who want to collect there Giro and sit around doing nothing other than hanging on the streets causing trouble and drinking.

It breaks my heart to see problems like that occurring in my second home. However, these types of problems have been coming for a long time, and they are and have been being built by the very people who are now yelling about control being given over to Big Brother.

I lived there from 1974 - 78 about 50 miles Nor'west of London, in a lovely little town called Finchingfield. (I know, I've told this story before here, but sometimes it bears repeating as a lead in). I was there as a Medic with the US Air Force on a NATO support site, which as I understand, is no longer active.

Anyway...

I love your country, and wouldn't mind living there for the rest of my life with a few changes...

I made a lot of friends on the local economy, and saw a number of things, which to my enterprising Yank Spirit, didn't make a lot of sense in it's design much less in it's execution.

For instance, one friend of mine drove a little delivery van for a dry cleaner (sorry... I don't remember the British term for dry cleaner)...

At any rate, he made 24 quid a week. He ended up quitting and going on the dole because that way, he made 26 quid on the week. And try as I might, I couldn't find a way to fault him for the choice.

Being a "Crazed Yank"... And not of British lineage, I could never understand the British Propensity to simply sit back and let the government do what it wanted without backlash. I am on the inside here in the USA, and I believe that I am beginning to see the spark that will create change here starting to glow. I pray that I am correct. I want to be part of that change.

I'm not fomenting rebellion by any means, but until someone has a chain around your neck and cuffs on your wrists and ankles, you still have the time, and capability to create change.

I certainly could be very wrong, and would definitely not wish to offend all the blokes and blokettes (what I used to call my friends when we'd hang out and things would get nicely political). But, rather than sit on a keyboard and raise heck about it, how about finding out what can be done to change things. Sometimes, all it takes is one person... I'm kind of thinking Ghandi, here...

Big Brother does not have to be inevitable.

Originally posted by paul76
By the time they realise they've made mistakes in life and there futures are amounting to nothing It's to late for them to change there ways

It's never too late to turn your life around and make up for past mistakes!

I was one of these kids that the OP describes, and am now in the final year of my degree after many years of hard slog to shrug of the negative 'labels' and catch up. Opportunities may be harder to come by, and the bond of trust with educational and authority establishments may be harder to forge due to their past experiences, but it's worth the effort.

Sigung86 i see your point about your friend the delivery driver and even today there's still the same type of jobs that pay very little for what your actually working for, these jobs i think would be better suited to people who have no wife and children as a stop gap whilst there working for minimum wage to be out looking for a better paid job because from what ive found its easier to get a job if your already in work as they can see you are willing to work and also if you dont work for a complete arse they can act on your behalf to let your next employer know what type of worker you are, or even working this type of job whilst your in training for something that's gonna lead to another more better paid job.

what i hear a lot is im looking for work but there's nothing out there i want to do or its under me im not gonna be litter picker but if its a job its a stepping stone.

just recently where i live the rubbish(garbage) collectors have been told there taking a pay decrease of £100 to which they striked and i support them people may think rubbish collection is easy but your out 9 hours a day on the streets in all kinds of weather collecting rubbish and then onto the closest land fill site to drop it all off and at the end of the day there's a risk of picking up something with a used syringe in it or cutting your self on tin or glass and getting an infection.

people also make fun of young people who work at McDonald's, KFC Burger king but at these type of places there's a chance of promotion if you work hard enough But also there's the point of if you do go looking for a new job whilst working for any of those fast food chains and most people don't realize this is the fact is most employers look at this as a good thing as it shows you can work as a team, deal with the public and you can work under pressure (ive seen my local McD's at lunch with a que of vehicles at the drive through and mass of customers at the counter)

But at the end of the day there are these people that have gone to college to get degree's and when they leave there's no work for them and these i feel sorry for but at least they have qualifications that still help get a job maybe not what you've been working towards but as long has they keep looking there's the chance that they could get the job they've been working for and they stand a better chance of getting into another course to work towards a different job.

I understand that today that it can be hard to get a job but if you look hard enough there's jobs there but its up to the individual to swallow there pride or people with qualifications to say yes its not what i wanted but ill take it, and then they should keep looking for that job they were after.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by u4ria]

I agree that it would be more fair if these people got off there arses and got a job. National service is a better solution. I think most people in every country across the world have people in their society that always are expecting a hand out with out giving back to society.

To me adding an increased financial burden onto these people will do more to separate them from society. Suicide, crime rates within this economic level would increase and living standards would drop which would impact on you guys.

It's not the best solution.





[edit on 5-11-2007 by Grimholt]

This idea seems crazy to me, by keeping these people in school for 2 years more all that will be achieved is the disrupted learning of those who actualy want to be their.

I left school at 17 after finishing 1 year more education than i was required to by law. After that i saw no point in staying on any longer. I didnt have a clue what i wanted to do so i did nothing. Under the governments plan i would be fined for this, and how exactly is anyone who isn't working supposed to pay for it?

I bet this idea came from the same people that had the brillian idea of banning christmas so any non-christians wouldn't be offended.