BOING !!! Greenland Is Rising Because Of Ice Loss

This is a known phenomena, but it seems Greenland is rising up faster than scientists had previously thought. A study by NASA JPL has confirmed a rise of 4cm per year since 2004 that seems to correlate directly with the increased loss of ice pressing down on it.

Greenland appears to be floating upwards – its landmass is rising up to 4 centimetres each year, scientists reveal.

And the large country's new-found buoyancy is a symptom of Greenland's shrinking ice cap, they add.

"The Earth is elastic and if you put a load on top of it, then the surface will move down; if you remove the load, then the surface will start rising again," explains Shfaqat Khan of the Danish National Space Center in Copenhagen.

In the case of Greenland, the "load" is its ice cap, he says.

Sudden Acceleration
"Before 2004, the uplift was about 0.5 cm to 1 cm per year," Khan told New Scientist. Since then, however, the land has been rising four times faster. "This means that since 2004, Greenland has been losing four times more ice than before," he says.

These figures roughly correspond to other measurements of how much ice is being lost by the ice sheet.

In 2006, a team led by Eric Rignot from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, US, published findings suggesting that there had been a sudden acceleration in the rate at which Greenland was losing ice during 2004.

I know it would be devastating for the planet and people living along low areas of the coast lines around the world, but I'd sure like to see the ice have a catastrophic slide into the sea in my lifetime.
It would be a major event in human history and worth being around to watch.


EDIT: Forgot to put in a link to the full story..........
technology.newscientist.com...

[edit on 3/11/2007 by anxietydisorder]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
I know it would be devastating for the planet and people living along low areas of the coast lines around the world, but I'd sure like to see the ice have a catastrophic slide into the sea in my lifetime.
It would be a major event in human history and worth being around to watch.

anxietydisorder, I typically like your contributions, but I find this statement somewhat offensive. Wishing the death and displacement of potentially tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people is depraved beyond words...

Moreover, what makes you think it's just the "low areas of the coast lines" that will be affected? Do you understand what such an event would really mean????

Think of the sudden displacement of that much water, caused by that amount of ice! Where do you think that water would go? Considering the US alone, you could kiss EVERY major US city along the eastern seaboard GOODBYE in a matter of hours! If you happen to live in the continental interior, what would life be like the next day...week...month...without any meaningful form of commerce...sustainable infrastructure...governance...etc...?

Forget the impact on planetary climate. Our goose would be cooked long before our ability to complain about the weather.

:shk:



[edit on 3-11-2007 by loam]

reply to post by loam


I'm sorry you find it that way loam, but it would be the event of the ages and I would want to be here for the show. I feel the same way about a west coast mega-thrust earthquake, a New Madrid catastrophe, or the collapse of La Palma.

We rarely see geological events of this magnitude and almost never in one particular person's lifetime. We are just a fleeting influence on this world when you look at the grand scheme of things and I hope I get to live in interesting times.

I've always felt that humans place too much significants on the survival of every member of our species. This may offend you as well, but a little depopulation may just be what this planet needs, and a good thing for our long term survival.

I makes me wonder what all the mining in the north is doing to the enviornment? I can't be good. Thanks, very interesting.

reply to post by anxietydisorder



I couldn't have said it any politically correct than you did. Some people just doesn't have the same views of a touchy feely planet Earth that never seems to change, very much.

I was actually glad my kids were old enough to see the results of the tsunami in the Indian Ocean a couple of years ago. It's hard to put things like that in perspective with just reading about it in a dry history book. They now actually know what a real tidal wave can do. None of my kids were really old enough to see the Mount St. Helens go off, but there is hope with Yellowstone. I don't make light of this and it will have tragic consequences, but I rather have my kids know this stuff actually happens than just shield them from the truth.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
I've always felt that humans place too much significants on the survival of every member of our species. This may offend you as well, but a little depopulation may just be what this planet needs, and a good thing for our long term survival.

Originally posted by hinky
I couldn't have said it any politically correct than you did. Some people just doesn't have the same views of a touchy feely planet Earth that never seems to change, very much.

With all due respect, sentiments like this are plainly ridiculous and not likely adhered to when such catastrophes befall the very ones who "think" they hold this view.

Originally posted by hinky
I was actually glad my kids were old enough to see the results of the tsunami in the Indian Ocean a couple of years ago. It's hard to put things like that in perspective with just reading about it in a dry history book. They now actually know what a real tidal wave can do.

Knowing a thing and actually hoping for a thing are two very different things.



Again, simply ridiculous.

I am neither confused nor naive regarding the potential for, or scale of, such catastrophic events.

I'd simply prefer they not occur in my lifetime or in the lifetime of my loved ones.


[edit on 3-11-2007 by loam]

reply to post by loam


Loam

anxiety obviously realizes our place in the universe. We all live and we all die. We have very little control over the earth. It would in fact be an exciting event to witness just as the tsunami was. It would be cool to see yellowstone eruption but that does not mean we wish it to happen. It is simply a broader veiw point on life. He choses not to live his life on emotions and his mind floats in the logical.

Nothing wrong living your life in an emotional state but it does not mean those of us who do not chose to do that are mean or evil etc.. We just experience our life as it comes.

reply to post by Xeven


I do not equate a healthy sense of self-preservation with frivolous emotionalism.

There is nothing logical about wishing to see a catastrophic event, as the one discussed here, and divorcing that from the cold, hard consequences of the event itself.

Doing so is the very emotionalism you speak of... It is, in fact, nothing more than the desire to be titillated by witnessing a disastrous event for nothing more than one's own entertainment.

"mind floats in the logical"... Good gawd.


[edit on 3-11-2007 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

Forget the impact on planetary climate. Our goose would be cooked long before our ability to complain about the weather.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by loam]

Loam, let’s look at this scientifically. It just seems everyone on ATS goes to extreme ends of what their opinion is based on. Hardly anyone maintains a moderate view what is most likely the actual scenario. Whether its NWO, war, Bush , Islam or even the weather everyone seems to be extreme.
In the case of all the ice in the world melting we can formulate the outcome since there is a set amount of ice. We have recently discovered cities 100 feet or more below sea level and many are chanting Atlantis with some huge disaster causing it all, but the answer is much more mundane.
Since the ice age, 20,000 years ago, the seas have risen close to 400 feet, and so civilization has had to migrate more and more onto higher land. This has caused older cities to slowly become submerged, but what would the earth look like if all the ice melted. Currently there are about 30,000,000 cubic kilometers of ice in the world's icecaps and glaciers and if all of it melted the seas would rise another 200 to 250 feet and would still take 1000 years or more, and this is not counting that the largest amount of ice, the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, at 77% of the world’s ice has actually grown since 1960 while all others have decline.

Here is what the land mass of the earth would be like and what the US would look like with all ice melted.









It is still a drastic change but just as our old cities underwater today we will have the same effect as people in 1000 years exploring old New York City etc, but it will not be the end of civilization in the least.

For the sake of my own selfish interest, could you provide an image of what the UK/Europe would look like in the event of a total ice "meltdown"?

Also, I second the other's comments about witnessing something huge. Whilst it would be sad to think of people dying, the actual viewing of such an event would be mind blowing. I was both awed and immensely saddened by the 2004 Tsunami, so I do feel for others, but was impressed by nature all the same.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
...if all of it melted...

That is not what this thread is about.

What anxietydisorder was hoping for was to witness the entire Greenland ice sheet slipping into the ocean in a single, catastrophic event. (A very real possibility.)

Melt has little to do with what is being discussed here.

But global warming doesn't exist right? LOL. They have eyes and yet they do not see. Human use of petroleum unabaited will literally wipe out most coastlines. This is reality. We are seeing it in OUR lifetimes. The suicide boats in Revelations can't be very far behind. I personally believe we are 'way' beyond the tipping point. I told you, 'put the bunny down', 'why couldn't you just put the bunny down?'

Originally posted by loam
What anxietydisorder was hoping for was to witness the entire Greenland ice sheet slipping into the ocean in a single, catastrophic event. (A very real possibility.)

Melt has little to do with what is being discussed here.

I think you missed the entire point of my post and then you concentrated on the idea that I would like to witness such an event.(and I would...)
The thread is actually about Greenland thrusting up as the ice sheets melt. The piping of water to the base of glacial fields is the grease that could cause a catastrophic failure of Greenland, as you said yourself, and would certainly increase the upward thrust of Greenland very suddenly.

I know the concept of millions of deaths in such an event is unimaginable, more so now than any other time in human history due to the sheer numbers that live along coastal areas.
Yet our species will rampage across the globe and kill countless millions through war and nobody really gives a crap. Nature gets it's due once in a while, and you and I have no influence over the outcome, we just get to watch.

Greenland will have a profound effect on our world in the next century, how large is anyones guess, but part of that ice sheet will shift at some point. You just need to look at the Northwest Passage to see that many northern islands are shedding their ice.

I don't have figures for the amount of land rise we'll see in places like Greenland or the Antarctic Continent, or what effect it will have on the geologic stability of the entire planet. I'm not a geologist.

It's the elastic nature of a planet that makes me think this could be a larger event than anyone could ever anticipate.

If Greenland and Antarctica rise as the ice melts, won't that have an effect on equatorial regions and around the ring of fire ???
The results of such a massive movement in the crust at either end will certainly have global repercussions.

[edit on 3/11/2007 by anxietydisorder]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
I think you missed the entire point of my post and then you concentrated on the idea that I would like to witness such an event.(and I would...)

You're right, I did...somewhat.

You were drawing attention to the geological observations made of Greenland...and your desire to watch the cataclysm unfold.

I addressed your latter point.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
Yet our species will rampage across the globe and kill countless millions through war and nobody really gives a crap.

I think plenty do.

But you do worse than not give a crap. You actually hope to witness an event with a similar outcome.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
Nature gets it's due once in a while, and you and I have no influence over the outcome, we just get to watch.

I'm not complaining that such event *can* occur. I just find it distasteful to desire that it should...



[edit on 3-11-2007 by loam]

reply to post by loam


Should, could, will, or might, events on a geological scale unfold with little predictability.

It might be callous to hope to witness such an event in one's lifetime, but as a species we want to watch these events unfold. CNN would not have the ratings it does if it were not for the general public wanting to see tragedy on the nightly news, and we really don't watch race cars to see who wins.

ATS is a prime example of the nature of the beast.
We as members read about any tragedy that befalls humanity and it makes us feel like we are part of the story, though our influence or the effect these events have on our lives is minimal.

It's all fine and dandy that a scientist can sit in an ivory tower and pass on his wisdom, but the general populous won't heed the clarion call. They think it's all taken care of, or they don't care at all.

Either you move away from the coast and leave it to a fragile commerce, or you risk being inundated by the sea.
The choice is your's...

It just makes me sick that they would try to save a city like New Orleans. What sense does it make to attempt to pump out a city that is already below sea level ???

Let it go, let Holland sink beneath the waves, and screw Venice.
Most of Florida will be gone, and say goodbye to the majority of the city and boroughs of New York.
Bye-bye London.
All your tidal gates and storm surge measures won't help in the long term.
Your city is going under and you have no control over it.

This isn't an if anymore, it's now become a when.

(Just a suggestion, but buy ocean front property in Sacramento before the price goes up.)


The governments of the world don't seem to care, so that means the people don't care.:shk:
Can anyone tell me why we don't care, or is it just short term economics.



Edit: Just editing

[edit on 3/11/2007 by anxietydisorder]

I haven't posted very many times here, but this topic needs a woman's perspective ...

And, I have to agree with both sides of this argument. Yes, it's terrible to wish for a disaster of any kind, and the suffering that will ensue because of it. I think you guys have been watching too many disaster movies. However, the reality at this point is that everything that I am reading indicates we are past the point of it mattering. Mother Nature has taken over. Greenland is melting and the glaciers are ALREADY sliding into the sea. Miles and miles of them every year, along with TRILLIONS of gallons of fresh water.

But, the point you guys have all missed is the Day-After-Tomorrow scenario. The Gulf Stream cannot, and will not, keep running with this much fresh water pouring into it. We are talking TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of gallons of fresh water pouring into the Atlantic. The scientists already know it is going to shut down the Gulf Stream long before the oceans rise. Period. And that will be the end of the world-as-we-know-it. No, of course not overnight, or in 6 weeks like the movie ... but, 6 years ... 20 years ... who knows? All we do know is that IT WILL HAPPEN, and that climate shift will economically end the reign of the Northern Hemisphere countries. Without the first-world, the collapse of the rest of the world won't be far behind ... and then the die-off will happen. Maybe as much as half of the world's population will not survive through our lifetimes.

Now, no woman wants to see harm come to her family, or to any one else's family, especially to the children. We are the bringers of life to this world, and it's our job to nurture and to protect that with our dying breath. But, the coming collapse of the world won't be because of the weather, the flood, the earthquakes, the viruses, or the famine. It will be because there are just too many people on this planet. It's just a simple fact that the Earth is now to the point of not being able to support anymore humans. It makes me cry to even think about it ... but it's the truth, and it's happening even as I type this. And overpopulation is something WE DID.

This is NOT going to be fun. But, it IS the truth, and it IS happening.

Deal with it. Plan for it. Get ready for it. Teach your children how to prepare for it.

Because, we are already in it.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by AirWitch]

Originally posted by loam
Considering the US alone, you could kiss EVERY major US city along the eastern seaboard GOODBYE in a matter of hours! If you happen to live in the continental interior, what would life be like the next day...week...month...without any meaningful form of commerce...sustainable infrastructure...governance...etc...?

Forget the impact on planetary climate. Our goose would be cooked long before our ability to complain about the weather.

No commerce? No governance? No infrastructure? Major loss of city folks?

You mean only the people in the high hinterlands, who were already living off the lap of nature would survive?

Full destruction of the coastal illusion?

Loam I'm going with Anxietydisorder here...

Not a bad thing to watch; I look forward. It'd be nice if ever'one was poo'in in the woods again.

Looky here; an edible mushroom.

Sri Oracle

reply to post by Sri Oracle


those are my thoughts exactly. what we need is some kind of catalyst to put us all back in to order. it would benefit all if we depended on the nature we are destroying to survive, which is simply the only correct existence for us nasty humans.


on another story, if all that ice slipped off Greenland, and the entire land mass rose as a result, i wonder what the Isostatic rebound's effects will be around the rest of the world?

I remember reading an article decades ago of a large meteor strike in the ocean that sent a tidal wave across the globe x2. How they came upon the findings I do not remember. I am old. Suffer from CRS. Can't remember sh##.

I'm going to basically say what I said on my site earlier about this. It is a rant I've been meaning to get to for a few days now but time doesn't always permit it.

Lets pretend what we are being told about the situation in Greenland is true. Lets assume for a minute that the Arctic ice is melting much faster than anyone has ever imagined.

If this is true when global warming researchers have painted themselves into a bit of a corner. The addition of all this fresh water to the Atlantic will destabilize the Atlantic current. That is a certainty. We were always told that the process would be slow (in the area of 100 years) and that the warming caused by man would largely offset the problems created by a current disruption.

If what the researchers say happens to be true and the ice is melting much faster than expected then it is safe to assume that the current will be disrupted much faster than expected. We were always told that a disruption that happened soon and in a hurry would be far worse than one that didn't happen for decades and took years to slow. If the ice reports are true then we won't have the benefit of "Global Warming" to offset the effects of a current disruption.

So what does this mean? Instead of worrying about sea levels rising and worrying about heat related crop failures we should be preparing for an imminent current collapse. By imminent I mean less than 10 years. Five years maybe? They always say to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. In this case it would mean preparing for an ice age.

It is honestly worse than just an ice age. It didn't have to be this way. We could be facing the greatest catastrophe since Toba nearly wiped out man. We are facing something between a Little Ice Age and a Younger Dryas event and we get to face it during a peak oil crisis. If you think things are bad now just wait until brutal winters drive the price of hard to get heating oil through the roof. We are looking at oil approaching $100 per barrel as it is. What do you think even one cold winter will do to that?

But you don't have to believe me. Just watch the reports come in about the rapidly melting ice. Watch the price of oil. Watch the price of gold. Winter might start slow this year but see how long it takes to end. This is only the beginning.