Why * I Disagree With John Lear * And YOU Should Too

I am sick to death of reading threads where the mods turn a blind eye to mr lear insulting other members who disagree with his pov. Any other member WOULD be warned or banned and I have seen other members become banned for engaging in the same type of name calling that Lear is often engaged in.

On top of that a guy with a ton of outrageous claims and no proof is given special status here as a conspiracy master?!?! shouldn't the conspiracy masters have some credibility, or at the very least be upstanding members of the community?

Well here is a conspiracy for you -- John drives traffic so he gets a free pass from the mods. I'm sick of it and i'm glad to see there are other members who are as well! Flame on brother.

reply to post by zoopnfunk


To insult the mods around here isn't very polite, considering it's their forum, not yours. And to call them corrupt like you just did, is even worse. No matter whether what you say is true or not, whether John has insulted people here, if you don't like how the moderators run the place, you can always leave.

And so far, I haven't seen any posts where John insult anybody who argues with him. Maybe I've just missed these posts... Either way, I highly doubt that the moderators would let it pass just because he's a conspiracy master.

General Reminder:

Posting against someone adds to the persons popularity, strengthens the attention that person gets. But it doesnt look like anyone is going to be learning this anytime soon.

Or maybe everybody just enjoys a good heated argument.

But you're right. Pretty soon, we'll be hailing John Lear for president, if this thread keeps up.

reply to post by Rockpuck


John Lear is an honest man. He simply shares his opinions with us, there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like 'em I guess you're free to debate them or just STFU.




[edit on 3-11-2007 by Observer_PR]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
General Reminder:

Posting against someone adds to the persons popularity, strengthens the attention that person gets. But it doesnt look like anyone is going to be learning this anytime soon.

100% correct!!
But as i always say, Trolls do not envolve,they always use the same old techniques, and they always are consumed by they'r own Hate in the end.

This topic look's like another lowsy campain to gathering anti-Lear adepts...what a waste of time
Altough...it is not against ATS rules and etiquete starting topics just to intend to bash ATS members?!

- "You" do not agree with Mr. Lear? Sorry it's life, we can't agree with everybody, get's on!!

- You have something to blaime about how ATS staff deals with some ones, and some others? Resolve that by PM's!! Make a correct presentation of facts to the ATS admins!!

This kind of topics always bring to my mind certain words like:

- Envy
- Troll
- Looser
- Child
- etc,

Yes, you must have just missed those post where Lear insults people and gets away with it because I have seen many of them.

I used to go by the name "Megadeth" around here and I had an awesome avatar but because I am anti John Lear my name was banned and I had to work around getting a new account and you can see my new avatar is a box with a x in it.
Nice isn't it?

There is a thread on this forum called "Megadeth's Forum". The thread was made so I could have a constructive conversation with Lear about everything he "knows" and it be kept respectful. When I showed how the soul collector was an obvious impossibility he insulted my religion and never came back to the thread one time ever again.

He has made racist comments towards Jews in the "Breaking News" forum, another place where he spreads his BS and I saw nothing done about it.
He makes one liners all over the place and not one time have I ever seen a "please review this link" warning or anything.

But what can we expect when we see a video of Springer and his cronies from the UFO expo all marking out like the messiah himself is in the building. It really was sickening so if you have not seen it yet then do not attempt to on a full stomach.

"The above is only my opinion, not stated as fact and may or may not be a fabrication of my mind or otherwise fabricated from someone else's mind who told me about it" - Disclaimer

reply to post by rattlehead


You can be right, i don't know it for sure, but as i sayed before, if you have some problem with how ATS staff alow or permit some things, make a very good presentation and show to the Admins.
That kind of problems is never to be debated in public topics, because it is futile! It will not be the public atencion that will resolve that problems!

Originally posted by David_Reale
reply to post by zoopnfunk

 

And so far, I haven't seen any posts where John insult anybody who argues with him. Maybe I've just missed these posts... Either way, I highly doubt that the moderators would let it pass just because he's a conspiracy master.

As someone who's been reading yet not posting I just had to reply and say, either you have missed those posts of his or you just dont understand the cynical way he does insult people and get away with it.
But, as others have pointed out, his name, does pull in people so he is given more leeway than others.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis

- "You" do not agree with Mr. Lear? Sorry it's life, we can't agree with everybody, get's on!!

I think you miss the point. Its not that people disagree or not with Mr Lear, its what he posts that he gets away with.

Posted earlier:
John Lear was commenting the other day on a thread, and if he does think all he says is fact well that would be a little out there. I am a sceptic but I do believe in any possibilities. Although he said something the other day about the far side of the moon having more oxygen then the near side; incorrect for a number of reasons but I'll just state one: Atmosphere is spread evenly over a plain. So you gotta take this guy with a grain of salt.

****
One thing to consider is that there are more craters on the far side. If craters are fairly deep, and I believe many are, then the air (what little there may be) would naturally sink down as low in elevation as possible (I haven't heard this talked about much on here). It may be that he is onto something. At the very least he gets you to think--to question--to wonder. Something is refracting light in those pictures, and it has to either be glass or atmosphere of some kind; whether or not it's dense enough, or the type that we can breathe is another question. Even if we can't breath it, that's ok. We (humans) explore the oceans and reafs and we can't breath the water. BTW there's air in the ocean.

Originally posted by Observer_PR
John Lear is an honest man. He simply shares his opinions with us, there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like 'em I guess you're free to debate them or just STFU.

Therein lies my problem with Mr Lear. You try and debate him, which will inevitably lead to you being insulted, called ignorant, told to open your eyes but still lacking in any proof. I've never once got a straight answer from him.

I'd stand a better chance having a debate with Bush and Blair over the Iraq War....

He is even appearing in completely UFO-unrelated threads and continuing his posting style there.

Debates about Iran will end up getting derailed for a page or two because Lear showed up and spouted some nonsense.

I once got dragged into debating him in an Israel/Syria thread, where he argued with me about some of the underlying reasons for the continued conflict.

I contended that Israel didn't want to give up the Golan heights because it supplies them with around 1/3rd of their fresh water. (This is FACT. I can prove it.)

He said I was wrong because...you'll love this.... Israel had built many years ago a secret 1000 mile ling tunnel from Turkey to Israel supplying them with water from one of Turkey's dam's!!

I mean, c'mon... In between Israel and Turkey sit's Syria and Lebanon. Would they not notice or mind, at all? Wouldn't it cost billions? Who built it? Why is it secret when it would be an engineering marvel?

I asked for proof and he deflected the question and said that it all just "made sense" and offered nothing else, except for the arrogant "Thanks for your post" trademark he has built up.

Now that is why people get pissed off with him. It's fine to have your own opinions, but it's another to shoot down valid, provable and intelligent discussion, because you "think" you "know" better, whilst at the same time, lacking any evidence or convincing argument to back it up.

Us lesser peons would be warned/banned for such actions, whereas this Lear guy, whoever he is and wherever he came from, manages to get away with it on a daily basis.

And this follows on nicely to the second Lear-problem. He attracts attention, sure, but what kind of attention?

I've seen many other forums and other media where he is laughed at, ridiculed and in the process of this, ATS and "Conspiracy Theorists" as a wider group are all lumped in with him, giving none of us mainstream credibility when we might actually be on to something that is much, much more believable and there might actually be evidence for.

In essence, all of us, whether we believe or not, and regardless of topic, are being tarred with the same brush because of Lear's antics.

reply to post by rattlehead


Well, I've taken the liberty to sift through Megadeath's Forum now. Note that I have read John's posts very closely, and merely looked through all others. But I haven't seen any post from John that I felt was out of line, or an insult. Be it then, that I believe John Lear suffers from a sharp wit and tongue.

Of course, note that I haven't studied every post John's ever made under a microscope, and it's not really my job to defend him either. I'm just calling it as I see it.

By the way, isn't it supposed to say "BANNED" if you've been banned, Megadeath? Well, it didn't in Megadeath's Forum. Maybe you should try and log in once more. Just a thought.

Take care now.
Bye bye, then.

The OP states that John Lear can get away with hoaxing because he brings in traffic to this site. Here is my take on this.

I get to see info that most of the people on this site can't, maybe John has been able to see some of it as well. So what if I were to come online and say this thread is a hoax since you don't have the info I have and you are misleading the members of this site? I have no way to show anyone the proof so you will have to take my word on it. This is exactly what John is doing and why is there a problem with this?

There are many more threads that are started by many other members that base their ideas on pure fiction or their own insider info. Isn't that exactly what the OP is talking about with John Lear? How can we prove or disprove their claims?

So why haven't these members been banned for hoaxing? Is it ok for others to post pure fiction but not be singled out because they aren't as popular as another member?

Members base their trust in other members after long periods of time or certain statements that help them connect with each other. Just because a certain member says something that some don't agree with doesn't mean he or she is wrong. If they don't want to argue with you then there is nothing you can do. I would love to call out people for posting false info but I can't because of the paperwork I signed. Trust me on this, many people on this site would be banned for posting false info but they don't know any better so what is supposed to happen? We move on but some people can't after reading threads like these.

One more thing, John is a nice guy with a different view of things because of what he has learned about. He is no different then anyone else on this site. I don't agree with everything he says but I don't go around saying he is anything other then human like the rest of us. If anyone has a problem with another member take it up with the Mods instead of starting a thread about it.

reply to post by NJ Mooch


But what about those who couldn't back up their claims who were subsequently banned for hoaxing?

Oh my god, finally someone with the balls to step up and say something.

Here is why John Lear should be permanantly banned from these and every forums.

1-BLATANTLY breaking the rules. Posting misleading, non-factual, downright ridiculous information with absolutely ZERO facts to back up claims.

2- Ignoring all the facts presented that are contrary to his claims. Members will post completely valid responses and he will ignore them. Example:

John Lear-"We are mining on the moon."
John Lear-"The moon is a spaceship."

ATS Member:"OK, if the moon is a spaceship, why are we mining on the moon? Are we mining a spaceship?"

No reply.

3 - Instantly jumping on any type of conspiracy bandwagon. If a member suggests that a "rock" on the moon is a bucket wheel excavator as silly as that might sound, John Lear will use that same object over and over in 100 threads and never actually know what the object was. If a member suggests we teleported a plane into the WTC, he would jump on that instantly and start a huge conspiracy thread about it, even though there is no proof that we have that technology.

A great example, someone posted a "square looking" rock and John Lear called it a parking garage. There are round objects called things like power plants, etc, with absolutely ZERO distingushing marks that anyone can verify.

4 - Posting wild and ridiculous claims with zero scientific facts to back them up. Posting statements like there are civilizations on planets, and the moon, and no evidence to back that up. Posting stuff like there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon with zero evidence to back it up.

5- Creating or supporting an alias called "Sleeper"- While no one can verify this, there is a suspiscious ATS member called Sleeper who John Lear constantly refers to. Sleeper also posts ridiculous, non-factual claims and John Lear ALWAYS refers to Sleeper. Sleeper could very well be John Lear or one of his friends.

6 - Creating contacts and lost evidence whenever possible - John Lear conveniently has tons of lost evidence and hand drawn pictures. "Well, I don't have the picture, I have a hand drawn copy." I suppose photocopiers are out of the question huh John. Every single person and piece of evidence he supposedly has or has had is buried somewhere and will probably never be seen again and all the people are mysteriously gone.

Example. If you ask John Lear about the Soul Catcher on the moon, more than likely he would fabricate something like, "Well I knew John Smith at the CIA, and we met back in 1978 and he showed me a picture of the soul catcher on the moon. He gave it to his friend and they buried it in the desert but forgot where. I drew a picture of it though, here it is."


The bottom line is John Lear breaks EVERY single rule we have here at ATS and is blatantly allowed to do so. This entire section of the forums is basically science fiction and if you post against John Lear you are banned.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
*sarcasm*
I guess you know everything.

That's good. Enlighten us.
*end sarcasm*

John is here to spur thought. Regardless of what your or anyone's opinion is, there is a fact to be understood: Everyone makes their own choice and the consequences follow.

Worry about yourself. Stop trying to make people believe you. All you can do is put your message out, which is: "I do not believe anything John Lear says." You've said it plenty of times.

Move on. It's a part of growing up.

Indeed, most of the people pointing the finger at him for "hoaxing" are in fact jealous at all the viewers his threads get. Jealousy and Envy are bad things people, if you find Mr. Lear's threads unbelievable and/or ridiculous, simply move on and don't read them? There are tons of other threads to read.

Originally posted by Chosen_Breed
Indeed, most of the people pointing the finger at him for "hoaxing" are in fact jealous at all the viewers his threads get. Jealousy and Envy are bad things people, if you find Mr. Lear's threads unbelievable and/or ridiculous, simply move on and don't read them? There are tons of other threads to read.

I'm not jealous. Check my history, I've had some huge threads of my own during my four years here.

The two things I take exception too, I highlighted above.

His Blair like behaviour in answering questions and the way he is tarnishing the reputation of respectable people actually trying to get the truth. Mention UFO's to people and if they've heard John Lear first, you've lost the argument already.

reply to post by Chosen_Breed


Jealousy? Hell no! I've been applauded about a dozen times and I've been here since March. By my own estimation, I'm doing fine. I personally speak out against Lear because I don't want this forum turning into some sort of "Weekly World News". Our quest for the truth is jeopardized when we reject high standards of proof.

i'm not saying I believe him, and I'm not saying I don't believe him. His stories aren't of much interest to me anyway. The only thing I have to say though is: If you built a giant SOUL COLLECTOR, would you make it clearly visible? And clearly visible to OUR, great, wise race? I'm not saying there is one. But If I had the technology to engineer such a device, I might think it wise to hide it.

I'm just saying some things COULD be true, and although it doesn't seem like it because we find it so hard to believe, due to the person's credibility or our own small, primitive understanding of the universe. Some things just can't be proven, not very easily anyway, and not when we're ready to accept such a large idea. I think everyone's opinion would change if we lived in a society with anti-grav cars and teleporters and the like. I'm just guessing, but we'd all be a little more open to ideas that seem "out there"

So once again, I have no stance on the credibility of the man, I'd like to think there are no liars here, and that john's sources where he gets the information from aren't lieing either. I'm just stating how some things aren't easily proven. I'm not saying to believe something you have no "proof" of, but I am saying some things are beyond our comprehension, we should keep an open mind, while maintaining our skepticism. It's important that we protect each other from lies, it is the way of knowledge. But c'mon, Soul Collector, thats pretty damn hard to prove.

To me, truth is personal, I have my own idea of whats true and what's not. Even when we know something is true, we should never stop questioning it. It helps us refine what we already know and perhaps develope a new opinion in some cases. I don't know what proof or evidence is but I leave the final judgement up to myself. I've often seen amazing facts, or supposed "evidence" that seems compelling, and then others knock it down because it's not good enough. Is it that it threatens our ego? Do we feel threatened that wild ideas stretch the limit of our incredible minds, while making our world feel so much smaller?

We're all brilliant people with incredible potential, I think we should learn to trust our own judgement and own abilities. Who cares what john lear says? He tells some stories, you can believe them or not, but in the end what does it matter? What matters is what YOU think. If john's a liar then he's a petty petty man, so just ignore him, maybe he'll get bored and leave. If he believes what he says is true, then good for him for getting out there despite the resistance from the harshest critics. Big ideas are hard to swallow, thats just the way it is. It's up to us to judge what is true to ourselves, and while we do that, let's all get try and along shall we? We can make a point and take a stance without bringing emotion into it. I'm just saying thats usually how these posts end up going.

Ok so basically... BE NICE! , or rather.. keep logical.