Ok, before I start with 9/11 and the "No-Planer" theory I want to offer you some historical background.

The JFK assassination "conspiracy theories" versus the truth

Those who were behind the JFK assassination knew very well that many would ask questions about the assassination. They knew very well that some would question the lies that were passes off as truth in the media. So in order to obfuscate their investigations, send them into a wild goose chase and discredit them, false clues were planted into the events. Those deliberate false clues were planted to promote false "conspiracy theories". For example, Oswald had a Russian wife and he had spent some time in Russia. Oswald was picked as the patsy to promote "conspiracy theories" that the Russians were behind the assassination of JFK.

Then Jack Ruby, a man with connections to the mob was picked to kill Oswald. This was done to create yet an other "conspiracy theory" with the idea that the mob was behind the assassination of JFK.

Then images of anti-Castro Cubans in Florida cheering the death of JFK were also planted into the news to promote and other "conspiracy theory" - the idea that anti-Castro Cubans were behind the assassination of JFK.

Then more rumors were circulated about the possibility that Castro himself was behind the assassination of JFK. And more and more rumors were circulated, all intended to provide more "conspiracy theories" - it was the mob, it was the Communists, it was the South American drug lords, it was Castro, and so on ......

All these "conspiracy theories" were intended to be piled up on top of the truth. So now instead of one unified truth movement, their was a wildly divided bunch of "conspiracy theories" and everyone was sent researching on a wild goose chase. But the mob, the anti-Castros, the Communists, the drug lords, the Russians, and so on, none of these organizations would have had the power to prevent the truth of JFK from coming out for the past 40 years. None of these organizations would have the power to corrupt the Warren commission.

But the goal was simple: to bury the truth under a ton of impossible, easily discredited "conspiracy theories".

The 9/11 "conspiracy theories" versus the truth.

Today, with 9/11 being a much more elaborate event then the assassination of JFK was, the planted false clues and the planted "conspiracy theories" would have to be much more subtle, complex and much more elaborate. Again, they knew ahead of time that many would question the events of 9/11. So even before 9/11, some false clues were planted to promote varying "conspiracy theories". Some of these "conspiracy theories" are promulgated by agents planted into the movement, some others are promulgated by innocent and well intended people who were fooled into accepting the false clues at face value without questioning common sense. I will not examine all of these false "conspiracy theories" here with you as it would take too long but I will address only one of them : The "No-Planer Conspiracy Theory" which was planted in the truth movement, not only to send us on a false track, but also to discredit the truth movement as it is a simply idiotic theory which should be dismissed on pure logic alone. But in order to express this pure logic I shall take you back to one of my childhood experiences.

The shed explosion

This was about 25 years ago during my teenage years back in Northern Quebec. I grew up in a "cottage country" with snowmobiling, hunting and fishy as common hobbies for all. So one evening, I was riding my snowmobile with a friend, I must have been 15-16 years old. We were riding on the frozen Lake Pressac when we saw a cottage in the distance that appeared to be going up in flame, so we set out to get closer and see for ourselves what was going on. By the time we got to near the burning cottage, the firefighting crew was already there with there hoses and along were maybe 15-20 other onlookers. Some of the onlookers were up on the road on the other side of the cottage while some were, like us, on the frozen lake riding their snowmobiles. We stuck around to witness the firefighting efforts, the firemen drilling a hole in the lake to get more water, the roof of the cottage slowly collapsing after a while and all that stuff. While the firemen made sure nobody was getting too close, we could see very well what was going on from a distance of maybe 50-80 feet away from the house.

But all of a sudden, after having been there for maybe 15-20 minutes, a shed about 25-30 feet away from the main house exploded. Well it didn't really per say explode, it was more of a sudden burst of fire. But right out of the blue, that shed was engulfed in flames and burning bright. Now, I don't know what caused that shed to catch fire like that - maybe a spark of flame traveled downwind to the shed, maybe there was some flammables stored up in the shed ..... maybe someone had deliberately set fire to it and maybe it was intentional ..... I just still don't know. But what is sure is that no snowmobile was driven into that shed. If a snowmobile had been driven into the shed, or if a missile of some sort had been thrown in there, there would have been a lot of people who were in the area who would have witnessed a snowmobile coming over and driving in, the noise of a snowmobile driving into it and also the tracks of a snowmobile leading to the shed.

There was at most 25-30 people there - at the most! If anyone had tried to claim that a snowmobile or a missile or a car had been impacted into the shed, there would have been at least 10-15 people, including my friend and I, who would have seen it and we would have rapidly exposed the snowmobile/missile/car lies.

..... (continued on next post)

[edit on 2-11-2007 by PepeLapew]

Great work Pepe. A star and a flag.

I wish the staff would post this as required reading before anyone could post on the 9/11 forum.

I submitted an article for the newsletter, whether it sees the light of day is unclear at this point, wherein I called these stories fairy tales and silliness. I'm sure to get flak over stating it so boldly, but it's the truth as I see it. Now I can reference the believers to this thread.

Thank you.

Dear PepeLapew:

Bonjour!

Your newly posted thread is indeed very well written and well researched. Naturally, now comes my big objection however. You actually addressed an important point why there were no planes on 9-11. You just view it in the opposite way. Exactly because every Tom, Dick and Harry had cameras pointing at the twin towers, there should be loads of footage showing UA175 hitting the WTC-2. But guess what, there aren’t. There is not a single ‘independent’ image to be found, anywhere. ALL stills and films of UA175 are cut from the same mold reeking of (lousy) CGI trickery.

I’ve typed this so many times, my fingers are hurting. All the civilians filming that day, recorded nothing relating to airplanes. And since all the TV feeds showed Boeings, they either just scratched their heads and said ‘oh-well’ to themselves, ‘we must have missed the shot.’ Or their work is being condemned as ‘uninteresting’ and ‘irrelevant’ because it doesn’t show what everyone wants to see, the planes!

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

In your two videos of the plane hitting the building, you see conspiracy, I see common physics. The amount of force carried by that aluminum plane would be something so amazing you and I couldn't imagine if we weren't there or haven't seen similar scenarios in real time. What you mistake for "cutting" into the building is less "cutting" and more instantaneous breakdown of every single part of that plane.

400 miles at 255,000 pounds would completely obliterate that plane. Not even the commission report says there was any "severing" of the steel, but merely knocked off the steel's fire protectant. I also noticed how the "soft" parts of the plane don't even register because of the force, but the turbines seem to make little "puffs" of concrete residue the instant they make contact with the building. I think that in itself would have been an incredible feat of and in itself.

I guess to some people it just makes sense. To others, it's some sort of mindblowing conspiracy.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

The only anomaly that I have ever seen is a small one of logic. How does a plane embed itself completely into the world trade center, with these heavy wings slicing into it, and yet the same thing doesn't happen at the Pentagon.

It's like the wings were strong enough to rip right through everything at the WTC, and yet hardly leave a mark at the Pentagon. I haven't yet gotten that one straight in my mind.

What I really do not understand. At all. Is how people just go on and make out of the blue theories. I was there. I was on the last train that went into the WTCS and let me tell you. If any of these theories are true.. they its the best entertainment I ever had ( right...). Hearing the sounds of the plans hit, or maybe there were speakers all around me, let alone hear it, it was more of a feel it.. like someone punched me in the chest.

Did our own government bring down these buildings than i am sure it will come out in the wash eventually, or maybe my father did it because he is a 32 degree SR freemason. Its just very hard for someone like me to read into this situation for more than it seems to be. We must use the Law of Parsimony.

To me, it doesn't seem very hard at all to buy a few hours at flight school ( even 17 year olds do that) buy a few plane tickets, get on board and take it over.. lock the door.. fly them into the buildings. I don't know. Maybe I am just one of those crazy realists.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by keywestjess]

There are videos from citizens, just search for them.
And, again, please, with the CGI!

CIA NSA ILM?...OMG!

Did you all notice how none of the no-planers are addressing the questions I have asked? They whine about little details while trying very hard not to answer the main question I asked, namely: How did they manage to make sure that nobody catches the building on video exploding without a plane going in?

Starred Flagged.....

Good post. I wouldn'ty mind printing a copy of this out to give to a friend I work with. He is a big no planer believer. While he has a great imagination, I don't see any logical explanaiton to back it up. I also agree that this should be required reading before you post in this forum

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
In your two videos of the plane hitting the building, you see conspiracy, I see common physics.

Correction, I see physics (8 billion newtons or 1.8 billion pound-force) while you see a "conspiracy myth". It's the other way around my dear.

The amount of force carried by that aluminum plane would be something so amazing you and I couldn't imagine if we weren't there or haven't seen similar scenarios in real time.

Correction, YOU could not imagine while I could and can, see the numbers above.

What you mistake for "cutting" into the building is less "cutting" and more instantaneous breakdown of every single part of that plane.

You would be correct and judging from the videos, the plane did break down into pieces, clearly the plane lost and the building wan.

400 miles at 255,000 pounds would completely obliterate that plane.

I agree, the plane would be obliterated and and guess what? It did get obliterated! How do you imagine the plane hitting the building? Do you imagine it would have merely bounced off?

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

There were so many people taking vid's and pictures that day.. I remember clearly seeing them all around the trade centre.. we watched when the first plane hit and we thought.. oh no.. thats horrible... but when the second plane hit the guy i was talking to yelled, "its an attack", he turned and ran to call his wife.. i couldn't move.. i was stuck.. watching everything... it didn't feel real.. sound was like being underwater.. the sight of it all was beyond anything i have seen before.. i still see people trying so hard to hang on to the windows to avoid the heat.. and waving shirts and things so NYFD could see them.... but the worst part that still sticks with me almost 24/7.. is the smell... i smell that day almost every hour i am awake.. and when i dream.. its right there with me.

Originally posted by tyranny22
Where's all the viedo from citizens?

weird.

I have seen at least four of them. I'll look for them and get back. Have a look on YouTube and CameraPlanet. It is also possible that many people didn't see fit to post them on the net. There is a video of my baby's first steps. Just because you can't find it on the net doesn't mean it doesn't exit, right?

[edit on 2-11-2007 by PepeLapew]

pretty good thread!!!! good research, we need to get this to more people!!!!!

An excellent post by the OP as others have also pointed out and certainly worthy of applause and of course debate.

To 'keywestjess' I am just wondering what brought you to ATS as I notice you only registered today and have only posted in this thread?

And please don't take that question up wrong,
I fully respect what you have written and it must have been terrifying for anyone who like you was in the vicinity of the WTC complex that fateful morning.

Pepe. the average no planer at this point would probably answer your last question like this: Advanced holographic technology, already patened and known to exist for many years, and no doubt advanced to a level in the secret labs around the nation and world that would allow for a daytime image with appropriate sound to be displayed and coordinated into the approach of the image to the setting off of charges to mimic the explosions and damage that one would exoect to see if a plane hit a building. I am not saying I am a subscriber to this; I am still on the fence for a few reasons, but lean toward the Op's position.

BUT there are many valid questions that remain and until they are dealt with satisfactorily there can be no assumptions made. One point that always gets me is the flash of light: You see it quite clearly on BOTH ' planes ' just at the moment of impact. There is on all films a brief flash of light at the front of each image, or plane, and that has to be explained. It could have been a triggering mechanism for the explosives, which theoretically at least could have been prepositioned between certain floors, with the image, or plane, being steered or directed into that area of floors, with the flash of light triggering the explosions.

It is beyond coincidental that in both Tower strikes there is that brief flash, very bright, BEFORE the nose inpacts. Something is fishy, very fishy. There are so MANY ' inexplicable anomalies ' associated with these events that the sheer number bely any thoughts of coincidence or happenstance, the odds are beyond astronomical that some quirk happened twice in a row under the same exact circumstances. So, we are left with the issue of real planes.

It sure looks like them, doesn't it? If they are holograms then whoever set up and ran this system is one slick operator..more likley though is a small group of committed radicals in key positions and with far ranging influence and resources. Since the operation was OBVIOUSLY carried out by a rouge band of militray, civilian ( corporate ), intelligence and black..deep black ops types assembling a team and pulling off the crime of the century, right under our noses. They left enough clues behind to condemn them, but no one is looking and no one is asking, at least not where it counts.

Now, if that is true, and if the technology exists to actually produce such holographic images and sounds and in broad daylight stage a totally faked event, no doubt the perpetrators would nopt hestitate to use that ability, as much or all of it would be in the very highest security range, with above top secret status and only rumors of its capabilities in the public domain. They have discussed using it to confuse battlefields and influence civilian populations as well; in one case they were talking about making it look like Allah was shown speaking to the masses and of course urging whatever the guys using the system wanted them to believe. If they can do that and be believable, they just MIGHT have the ability to pull off a hoax event like is alleged by many happened on 9-11.

Also, there are films of faint and obscured images that look like cloaked aircraft circling the Towers, and orbs as well. It is NOT beyond possible,)
although the likelihood I will leave to you ) for an operation of a VERY advanced nature was conducted, so advanced that only a handful of people could be aware of on an intimate basis. Considering the fact that many important people that fit that description were among the alleged dead on 9-11: There were an unusually high number of these types on the doomed aircraft, although a connection is not well proven yet.

Is it POSSIBLE for the planes to be holographic images? Probably YES. Is it LIKELY that this is the true answer? I leave that up to the individual to determine based on examination of the evidence at hand. The main reason most of us feel that is may be somewhat unlikley is that we are not privy to the technology that really exists: It has been said widely that the government( along with their pals in the private sector) is between 30 and 50 years ahead of what is known to the public. It makes sense: new breakthroughs need protection until they can be fully developed and exploited for whatever reasons, and the biggest secrets are the most guarded, of course.

But is it too much to believe that with all of the known evidence, taken at face value, the government, and thus the perpetrators of 9-11..meaning the cabal that actually planned and pulled off the attacks, has the ability to do such a thing? I believe they can; whether or not they did is still an issue for many, but I at least believe that they COULD do it that way, given the accepted paradigms for assuming that they have things we can hardly comprehend, much less have any personal use for unless developed for certain markets.

Anyway, to answer your question, it was all holographically staged and sound was provided and by means that are classified to the highest degrees. At least many believe that. Until the very valid questions are answered and the ' anomalies ' explained intelligently, there will remain those who are willing to go far enough to believe in technology existing that can cause the effects seen. If so, it was the boldest and most audacious act in human history: To literally fool ALL of the people ALL of the time would be a feat that any good dictatorial cabal would slaver to accomplish!!

But we CANNOT all be fooled all the time!! Some people look beyond the obvious, and beyond the doubtful, and sometimes right into the foolish, to find the answers to the questions that MUST be dealt with before any closure can happen. The cabal made a number of errors, as expected fully no doubt in an operation of this magnitude and complexity, and they stand out as beacons of hope that the truth, whatever it may be, will soon be known, and the perpetrators of these awful deeds will stand before the bar of REAL justice to answer for their crimes.

Holographs or airplanes that exhibit strange characteristics?Dozens of strange events swirling around the event and a demand that answer be given. We will soon see what the result it.

pmexplorer

My Dad actually use to look over this site( i dont think he is a member)...and he showed it to me and I've been lurking without being a member for about a year or so.. very interesting. My interestes are more in the area of life after death.. ghost.. esp etc... i don't really jump over to the "alternative explinations" side of things very often.. it just gets my blood heated lol.

But yeah.. in terms of this post... i guess one has to start some where lol

[edit on 2-11-2007 by keywestjess]