New and in color mars pics from opp, page 1
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Topic started on 29-1-2004 @ 06:19 AM by Kriskaos



and here is the comment by nasa

This high-resolution image captured by the Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity's panoramic camera highlights the puzzling rock outcropping that scientists are eagerly planning to investigate. Presently, Opportunity is on its lander facing northeast; the outcropping lies to the northwest. These layered rocks measure only 10 centimeters (4 inches) tall and are thought to be either volcanic ash deposits or sediments carried by water or wind. Data from the panoramic camera's near-infrared, blue and green filters were combined to create this approximate, true-color image.

approximate true color hmmm so NASA doesnt even know the true colors of mars or are they adding color to make it that red color.

[Edited on 29-1-2004 by Kriskaos]


reply posted on 30-1-2004 @ 12:13 AM by BarryKearns

(Point being from earth it looks red. Why are so many of you convinced it's got a blue atmosphere and they're hiding it from us?!)


This ridicule is ignorance that needs to be denied.

Your derision is misplaced... though rather common among pseudo-intellectuals with only enough knowledge to be dangerous, without actually being truly informed. Why believe that it would be reasonable to see a blue sky on Mars?

Simple science, really. Most planets with an atmosphere will tend to have a blue sky due to Rayleigh scattering. The color of the sky is largely a function of scattered light. The sky might appear DARKER due to a less-dense atmosphere, but would not change from blue to red.

Sure, in the middle of a sandstorm or immediately after, it might be discolored... but the sandstorms are not constant, and the air does clear at least somewhat, giving decent visibility across substantial distances.

There are also substantial problem with assuming that a major fraction of the blue/green wavelengths would be absorbed by "constant" dust in the atmosphere... one, the solar cells would stop providing nearly the power levels that they need to provide, since their primary response range is from blue light, not red.

Two, enough dust to absorb that high of a fraction of the blue and green wavelengths would make the entire surface substantially darker, and since a majority of the light at the surface would necessarily have to be scattered light, we wouldn't see shadows that were nearly so sharp as we do.

As I recall, Viking only noted two or three significant dust storms over a three-year span. Yes, they happen, but it's not like it's wall-to-wall dust storms 24x7.

We also see from orbital photographs that the sky is quite often very clear... the surface is not habitually hidden due to some wall-to-wall murky haze. A predominant number of orbital pictures are remarkably crisp, indicating that the intervening atmosphere is (relatively) clear. A majority of the obscuration of surface pictures seems to come from water-ice clouds.

NASA's own folks (and many other respected science outlets) have said for some time that they would not be at all surprised to find a blue sky on Mars... why then are you expressing mock amusement towards those who agree with them? The supposition of a blue sky typically appearing on Mars is utterly reasonable.

Here are a couple of quick references. You could have found them yourself if you had bothered to Google the subject and invest a couple of minutes in actual learning... a pity that a smirk and a dismissal is so much easier to throw out there.

From the
John Baez Physics FAQ:
"The colour of the Mars sky will change according to weather conditions. It should be blue when there have been no recent storms, but it will be darker than the earth's daytime sky because of Mars' thinner atmosphere."

From a Hubble Telescope press release just before the landing of Pathfinder (if you read the article, you'll notice that Jim Bell from Cornell was involved here... the same fellow in charge of the color balancing for the Rovers):

"If dust diffuses to the landing site, the sky could turn out to be pink like that seen by Viking," says Philip James of the University of Toledo. "Otherwise, Pathfinder will likely show blue sky with bright clouds."

There is a well-researched paper by Ron and Gilbert Levin which examines the color calibration issue. It is excellent reading for those interested in actually educating themselves on the subject, instead of just flinging mockery. It does a good job of poking holes in the "conventional wisdom" explanation about suspended dust vs. Rayleigh scattering.




[Edited on 1-30-2004 by BarryKearns]



reply posted on 30-1-2004 @ 09:23 AM by BarryKearns
Oh, and for what it's worth... here's an "approximate true color" image covering some of the same terrain, but constructed with data from the RED, green, and blue filters, instead of the infrared (using L4-L5-L6 instead of L2-L5-L6):



Interested parties are free to combine the raw data themselves, and see what the red, green, blue combination looks like. Since NASA has still failed to produce a set of shots that include both the calibration tool and a decent portion of the terrain in the same shot (using L4-L5-L6), any color balance adjustments would be speculative at best... for a proper and much more exact balancing, it is incument upon NASA to take the described (necessary) shots, and release the raw data.

Personally, I find this natural (raw) balance to be quite reasonable, as are most pictures of known objects produced by a raw mix of the L4-L5-L6 filters. They are not exact, of course, but we already know that the L2-L5-L6 data is "off", so I'm comfortable with this representation being "closer" to reality.

Of course, if NASA ever gets around to finally producing and releasing data that will allow a reasonable independent VERIFICATION of the actual surface colors in the human vision range (as described above), we'll all know for sure.


[Edited on 1-30-2004 by BarryKearns]


reply posted on 30-1-2004 @ 10:10 AM by darklanser
Images of US soldiers in Iraq during a sandstorm.









The coloration is due to dust in whatever passes for atmosphere on Mars. I don't think there's much more to it.


reply posted on 30-1-2004 @ 12:09 PM by BarryKearns
Yes, those are all good examples of the types of color differences present while in the midst of a sandstorm... and I already referenced above that the colors would be different during and immediately after a sandstorm.

But we also know that sandstorms are not constant on Mars, and know that there are constraints on just how much blue and green light must be present to ensure the operation of the solar cells.

Visibility is much better in a lot of Mars pictures than in the sandstorm pictures above. Once the density of particulates drops enough to ensure that we are getting good power levels and good visibility, it is no longer possible for the majority of light at the surface to be scattered/reflected red light from particulates.

We therefore know that the sky is often relatively clear, and would expect only the sort of typical minor particulate haze that people expect as normal in terrain shots taken over large distances.

Distant objects will appear more hazy, and the sky will wash towards a whitish color near the horizon, where the visible distance through the haze is greatest. As the view is shifted upward, the haze effect naturally falls off and "sky color" begins to dominate.

There is simply no compelling reason to expect that the dominant feature in Martian surface lighting is ALWAYS red reflected light from particulates. The other evidence rules this out as a reasonable explanation.

Hubble photographs also strongly indicate that the atmospheric "limb" of Mars shows as blue, not red as would be expected if the predominant atmospheric color effect is due to suspended particulates. These shots are taken through the MAXIMUM atmospheric cross-section (a tangent to the surface at the edge of the planet), so any particulate coloration should be MORE intense on Hubble images, rather than less intense or non-existent.
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