NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure

Originally posted by johnlear
Seems like you wrote a lot of books Jim. Actually tech manuals, handbooks, training manuals, 'collected, selected and annotated documents'.

How on earth did you find time to be a rocket scientist?

You see, John, you may not know this, but scientists actually write books, papers and magazine articles! Nice, isn't it?

This is some classic tactics. "Conspiracy Master" can't support the original thesis in the face of hard critical questions, so resorts to attacking the source of the hard critical questions.

At this point, the thread may as well die now......JimO has done a marvelous job of thrashing the claims the thread's title makes.

This is not meant as an insult, John, but I have absolutely no memory of ever agreeing to meet you in any lobby, or look over any list of questions, or anything. This seems to have festered in your mind for decades, and if I can help you lance the concentrated toxic bitterness that seems to drive you, it's only humane of me to make a modicum of effort. What can I do to soothe your soul?

Originally posted by JimO

This is not meant as an insult, John, but I have absolutely no memory of ever agreeing to meet you in any lobby, or look over any list of questions, or anything. This seems to have festered in your mind for decades, and if I can help you lance the concentrated toxic bitterness that seems to drive you, it's only humane of me to make a modicum of effort. What can I do to soothe your soul?

I guess the date of your retirement from the Air Force would help.

The date you left McDonnell-Douglas would be even better.

The date you were hired by Rockwell Interntional would go a long ways in diluting that toxicity of bitterness driving me to crazed posts about aliens, UFO's, the neutral point, Billy Meiers and the breathable atmosphere on the moon. Oh yeah and the people on Venus.

Anyway, it would be worth a shot. And your selfless, kind, heroic offer is not unappreciated.

You might throw in if you ever worked in any capacity (other than writing a tech manual) for Air Force Intelligence.

We can lance that baby Jim! You and me together!

Hey, remember back in November when this was about a book and a Man? That was crazy times. Now it is about personal assassination. My how we all have grown.

John, I see no prospect of anything I say or post -- that you can automatically disbelieve -- influencing your conclusions at all. So that kind of request is just a formula for endless pestering.

I did have a '51xx' secondary AFSC in 1970-1973 or so, if that is of any use. My AF separation date was in December, 1978, which is when I transitioned to MCDonnell-Douglas. As for anything else, get used to being unsatisfied....

Originally posted by buddhasystem
You see, John, you may not know this, but scientists actually write books, papers and magazine articles! Nice, isn't it?

So do conspiracy theorists... and since in America we do occasionally support the freedom of the press and the right to publish... it never ceases to amaze me that some people get harassed for writing those books...

Phil Plait writes books and makes money debunking stuff... yet without the conspiracy theories to debunk he would have little income LOL...

You can't have it both ways if its okay to publish one view point, there is no reason to attack the other one... There are thousands of main stream science books in print that today have been proven wrong in the face of new evidence so the fact that "scientists actually write books, papers and magazine articles!" means very little

Its also funny what passes for a 'scientist' in this thread..

Maybe we should ask for a copy of the degree before accepting a post from a 'scientist' Kinda get that out of the way up front



[edit on 23-1-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
You can't have it both ways if its okay to publish one view point, there is no reason to attack the other one...

Publishing is one thing, attacking entirely different. If a neo-Nazi group published a book that is legal (e.g. does not incite immediate violence) but which I find disagreable, you can bet that I will attack such book. In a less serious context, if I find that somebody is putting forth unsupported, unreliable and/or fabricated claims, I have full rights to expose such reality.

There are thousands of main stream science books in print that today have been proven wrong in the face of new evidence

You know, I read my great-grandmother's "Cosmology" book from her high school years. I was amazed that the author stuck with the facts and that a lot of data was presented in a way palatable even 100 years later. Newton's math is still used with much success. However, it is claims of atmosphere on the Moon, lakes and rivers on Venus etc that solidly belong in the trash bin of scientific discourse.

Its also funny what passes for a 'scientist' in this thread..

I hope the comic value you extracted from my posts (as a scientist) is remotely equal to what I enjoy while reading your endless posts in the spiric of decadent barbarism, as DogHead put it.

Decadent barbarism... Indeed.

I am marvelling at how the thread has mutated virulently into an extremely personal attack on a specific user, who has provided information beyond any requirement and is yet to be swayed or gainsaid an iota. In the midst of this sudden plethora of nuts and bolts facts from the Conspiracy Master one is, I believe, entitled to ask:

How can Lazar's employment record be unreliable, in the same reference frame where Jim0's is reliable? How selective can the erasure of pasts be, and if it is THAT selective, then there is no reliability in ANY service record or employment record, and THAT means it's all nonsense and we will have to fall back on a reliance on something more objective...

Such as science.

But of course science is 100% subjective here too.

This sort of divorce from reality borders on the psychotic. If it's genuine.

If it's disinformation or nineteenth century style hoaxing, I guess that's less troubling in a sense, but in another, more accurate sense, worse, since for the insane there is the insanity defence.

For the merely mendacious there awaits only disapproval, disavowal and belated obscurity.

I was wondering upon revisiting this thread if Jimmy O has supplied ANY of you folks with the NBC/MSNBC "authority" he had for sending Ms. Ferari THAT SPECIFIC email ( using a Sweedish UFO site as a "reliable source" ) or..has he admitted that he INTENTIONALLY misled Ms. Ferari AND JPL itself by implying with THAT signature that he was acting ON-BEHALF and AT-the BEHEST of NBC news in the inquiry into Mr. Ken Johnton's "qualifications".

I was just wondering if Jimmy O ever "qualified" the use of NBC credentials when NBC and MSNBC stated they did NOT give Mr. Oberg permission to do so.

Bob...

[edit on 28-1-2008 by rhw007]

[edit on 28-1-2008 by rhw007]

by the way...the edits are so that the wording is specific and says what I meant it to say without typos which could have been mis-understood.

[edit on 28-1-2008 by rhw007]

Originally posted by DogHead
I am marvelling at how the thread has mutated virulently into an extremely personal attack on a specific user,

Yeah amazing isn't it? Kinda like the Bob Lazar thread

Originally posted by rhw007
I was wondering upon revisiting this thread if Jimmy O has supplied ANY of you folks...

Not that I have seen... but I have been away a few days

by the way...the edits are so that the wording is specific and says what I meant it to say without typos which could have been mis-understood.

Ah! I see you are learning your way around here and the spelling police

Originally posted by sputniksteve
Hey, remember back in November when this was about a book and a Man? That was crazy times. Now it is about personal assassination. My how we all have grown.

So true. I strayed from following this because it got boring, loaded with personal attacks on Lear. Since i have returned to "check in", the dogpile seems to have grown (now growing a head, it seems, that like words such as "Mendacious" and "obfuscatory persiflage").

Those were crazy times indeed!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
It's plain old human nature

You invite an enthusiastic crowd to see the show of the century and once they're all seated and out of popcorn, reveal that there isn't actually any show at all. They'll get restless

Originally posted by Pilgrum
You invite an enthusiastic crowd to see the show of the century and once they're all seated and out of popcorn, reveal that there isn't actually any show at all. They'll get restless

Actually, they reach for rotten tomatoes, which in this case is so amply justified. Down with the frauds!

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Pilgrum
You invite an enthusiastic crowd to see the show of the century and once they're all seated and out of popcorn, reveal that there isn't actually any show at all. They'll get restless

Actually, they reach for rotten tomatoes, which in this case is so amply justified. Down with the frauds!

I have finally read Darlk Mission and returned the copy to the Library where I encouraged them to buy it. Now the Librarian has it when I went in and got a paper I had ordered them to acquire for me through interlibrary acesses "The Cydonia Hypothesis" by Brandenburg, DiPietro & Molenaar, members of SPSR but one of the papers for which they do NOT include a link to their PDF of it.

spsr.utsi.edu...

Left hand side under Peer Review...etc.

Anyhooo he stated he agreed that Dark Mission gives ample evidence to back up their major claims. Having been PERSONALLY involved in the great "Bamf" episode I unfortuantely did NOT get the "real" Themis IR data that Keith got...but Keith Laney has a written record of ALL the chats, posts, emails, PMs etc...that WERE going on between Keith and various people associated with ASU and NASA and THEMIS...INCLUDING PROOF from the "Wayback Machine" that THAT particular page WAS indeed CHANGED on the very night Keith downloaded the "Real Themis IR".

I had the noisy version but still found 'blocky-like' structures using the same Envi 3.5 version Keith was using in the Fall 2002. Some of my work with that is here:

commonsensecentral.net...

There's an animation at the bottom image

As far as the Moon Domes go, especially with regards to the Apollo 11 landing...having those 900 "missing" ORIGINAL TV tapes would go a loooong way to finding the TRUTH about that also....but....I can give you innumarable examples were NASA has been absolutely LYING from one Press Release to another...but for some "NASA Apologists"....NASA is like ROME...and ROME can do no wrong....certainly not INTENTIONALLY !!!

So as all the "NASA Apologists" fall to their knees and bow their heads...

Us "Anomalists" are out here raising

Enjoy the show...and if you run out of popcorn...spring for some more.

Btw...to read the Story about the Cydonia "Real" Themis IR go straight to the source if you don't believe Dark Mission's take on it. I was there also as I noted above...but nowhere NEAR involved as Keith Laney was.

keithlaney.net...

And BEFORE you even THINK about disparaging Keith's work...remember this ONE VITAL FACT...it was HIS processing of the MGS MOCs that got the two MER rovers onto the right spots by giving the MER team BETTER data than Dr. Malin and anyone at MSSS, NASA, or JPL could do:

MER landing sites Keith Laney work
marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov...
marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov...

and THAT's says a LOT about this "Anomalist Community"...not all of us are incompetent nut cases or glory seekers. We do this because we love it...AND we give our work away for FREE...there was NO NEED to buy Dark Mission to learn about the THEMIS IR controversy.

The RIDE is what Life is ALL about...I've been in the "in-between" halfway to the end 6Xs believe me

Bob...

New link to share with group, especially since it mentions Jimmy O

www.ufodigest.com...

Quite a good 4 page read and many excellent points about the SAME tactics employed by all who are still "Stuck in the Box" or "NASA Apologists" and bow down to the almighty NASA "Science Investigations" of "Proclomation of FACT by Press Releases".

Bob...

reply to post by rhw007


What a wonderful read!

here:

As a ufologist, an autonomous theologian, and social researcher, I am the target of debunkers from the broadest range of debunkers imaginable

I see! The autonomous theologian, the author of the anti-debunker opus, is not very happy.

My work reveals the cover-up of UFOs and challenges the common concepts of UFOs, it uncovers the contradictions and misconceptions of mainstream Christian doctrines and beliefs

Impressive, ain't it? All is revealed, Christianity is bunk.

Early in my research I had several confrontations with James Oberg, a UFO skeptic, whose style of debunking is almost legendary.

Yes, I can see why. It must suck to be on the receiving end of James' critique. A well informed, logical and well spoken author... The "believer's" worst nightmare.

It almost always starts with a condescending and self-assured attitude, which suggests that the debunker's points are backed by the full faith and credit of God.

Well wait a second, didn't just somebody claim to have uncovered a wealth of truths about UFOs and the lies of Christianity? Sure such claims carry the air of self-assuredness.

Dismissive terms such as ridiculous, absurd, trivial, or even pathetic are used to make the UFO believer seem ignorant and gullible

Truth hurts. I feel your pain.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by DogHead
I am marvelling at how the thread has mutated virulently into an extremely personal attack on a specific user,

Yeah amazing isn't it? Kinda like the Bob Lazar thread

Sort of. Of course the difference is that in the Lazar thread charlatanry is under attack whereas here, operating under the powerful delusional effect of a chimaeric home ground advantage, the charlatans have attempted to remove their local Galileo. With shall we say... mixed results.

"Early in my research I had several confrontations with James Oberg"

Who is this guy? I've never heard of him.

Originally posted by JimO
"Early in my research I had several confrontations with James Oberg"

Who is this guy? I've never heard of him.

Jim, I hope you excuse me if I peruse the actual phrase that Mr.Lear used with regards to my humble person:

"probably some yo-yo seeking fame and fortune by associating himself with you"