NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


That is simply ludicrous and utterly wrong. Seeing as how I've at least spoken to or met in person all of them except Bigfatfurrytexan and I have access to the IP data of all members.

Come on ITF, I know you can do better than false sock puppet paranoia.

For the record, we don't call our fellow members "liars" or deride perspectives/opinions as lies either. I have cleaned up the offending post and going forward "Miss Manners" will replace text of a snide, rude or otherwise "non friendly discussion" bent.

Happy Holidays one and all.

Springer...

[edit on 12-24-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by johnlear
Much of mainstream science is a lie. It just hasn't been found out by mainstream scientists yet.

In that case, shouldn't you call it something else?

You say in your signature:

1. All of my claims are only possibilities.
2. I could be completely misinformed.
3. All of what I believe might not be true.

If you say something based on some wrong information that was presented to you and that you consider as being true, are you lying or just misinformed?

Isn't a lie a deliberate attempt to deceive?

The one sixth gravity myth is necessary to that people won't know there is an atmosphere and that there is a civilization living up there that we are to be kept ignorant of.

Since when do humans know that there is a civilization living on the Moon? Can we find references that show since when mainstream says that the gravity on the Moon is 1/6 of that of the Earth to compare to the date "we" became aware of that civilization on the Moon?



Merry Christmas

reply to post by Springer


Oh jeez, I'm sorry my sarcastic humor didn't come across. It was not a serious poke at John (or zorgon, or gridkeeper, or sleep, or the bigfatfurrytexan dude) it was just meant to be funny. I should have used some smiley faces. Sometimes I need to remember that even if I am laughing at something I type, others may not find it funny or even see the humor come through.

But I know John had to get a chuckle out of it

reply to ArMap

Good points you made. I think we all get a little lost in semantics from time to time, and I find they detract from the message. I hope we can all stop focusing on such things, but in the written world of the internet we do not have the advantages of verbal conversation. I always try to review other people's posts as if we were talking face to face, it makes the little things that come out glaring online take a slightly different connotation.

Ask ourselves, if we were all at the bar, and this entire thread was spoken, I bet there would not be anyone that gets bent out of shape, as most of the different posting styles we all use would come across easier in person.



[edit on 24-12-2007 by IgnoreTheFacts]

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


I always get lost in semantics, even in Portuguese.

As I hate misunderstandings and I think that the words have their meanings and not the meanings we want them to have, I try to clear things the best that I can.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


i am similar to john and zorgon. i am just bigger, fatter, furrier,and hail from Texas.

Hailing from Texas gives me an advantage straight outta the gate!!! That should account for me not being as smart as they are.

Springer...i love the Miss Manners thing. There is management, then there is effective management. Standardization is the mark of an effective management team. Good work!!!...your site is still improving everytime i turn around.

Plus, sometimes a humorous correction is more merciful than a raking over the coals.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

"IMHO Jim owes you an apology for his mistake in assuming that it was you, not Zorgon, who published what is considered by many to be a lie. "

Indeed, I do, John. In my confusion I leveled untrue blame at your feet, which I retract and eat. Mea culpa.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Plus, sometimes a humorous correction is more merciful than a raking over the coals.

I'm guessing that by "merciful" you meant "effective". (Humor is ALWAYS more merciful than a raking.) I wholeheartedly agree. Not only is it more effective, it is more in tune with the camaraderie that ought to exist among the members as we seek (and argue) the truth.

IgnoreTheFacts, a star for your response to ArMap. Nicely stated.

JimO, a star for your mea culpa. You're a man who'll demand more integrity from himself than he even has a right to expect from others.

Merry Christmas, one and all, by the way.

reply to post by Tuning Spork


Tuning Spork,

A star to you. You continue to amaze and educate me, and for that, I thank you.

I won't say Happy Christmas...oh 'Christ'! I just did!

Prefer to say to all, Merry New Year...

Best....

reply to post by ArMaP


ArMaP,

I have read your posts, and even though Portuguese may be your first language, you have an excellent command of the English language as well.

It is always a pleasure to see what you have to say, you are concise and pertinent. That is the best way to describe your contributions.

Thanks!!

Have a great New Year!

Dang, wish I had seen what ITF said, but I don't know how to get him off ignore.

As far as lies are concerned, that is a subjective perspective. "To thine own self be true or to no man canst thou be true" is as applicable here as it has always been elsewhere.

Truth be told, lacking the ability to question the shaky precepts of our limited knowledge will not help in accepting greater possibilities, such as transrelativistic warp, power ranges in excess of tens of billions of suns, galactic highway particle beam networks, and hosts of so called alien life that have lived with man so long they forgot their own origins.

That is just a start. I really don't know what John knows, but what he has shown so far isn't as outlandish as what's really out there.. Come on, prepare your minds, its a big universe!

Originally posted by JimO

Indeed, I do, John. In my confusion I leveled untrue blame at your feet, which I retract and eat. Mea culpa.

Thanks Jim, hope you had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year.

Originally posted by johnlear
Much of mainstream science is a lie. It just hasn't been found out by mainstream scientists yet.

Am I the only one confused by this strange logic?

For instance mainstream science thinks the gravity on the moon is one sixth that of Earth's.

Well, this matches the vast amount of data, as the Moon is probably the most watched celestial object. If you decline to pay attention to facts, then the sci-fi fora may be a better place for claims incompatible with reality.

reply to post by buddhasystem



Allow me to clarify my feelings on John's post:

"Mainstream Science" is a lie, whether intentional or not. There are gaps and flaws in our knowledgebase (collectively) and the ignorance of these gaps, in my mind, make the lack of knowledge a lie.

I read an article in Science Daily the other day, and a physicist was discussing the vast areas of emptiness found recently. He said something along the lines of "now that we know this, we are that much closer...". I am thinking to myself, "You KNOW nothing. You THINK you know a lot, and ignore evidence to the contrary to as to not disillusion yourself and lose grant money."

My signature sums up my feelings quite nicely. This belief in the truthiness of their studies give them great impetus to do their work.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I just want to jump in here and say that I agree 100% with your post and your signature quoting David Bohm! Bohm's statement in particular is mostly opinion but it features one indisputable fact. We were not present at the origin of the universe, therefore absent someone who was there in a position to understand and record what they observed, who would share that information with us and fill in our blanks, we cannot in fact ever know what happened during that time. It is, however, readily observable and thus provable that all things are in continual change. Great post! I'd give you an applause if I could, but you will have to do with a star.

I once obtained ancient knowledge which described the moon as a movable shield used millions of years ago to protect earth from massive meteor strikes controllable via the Pyramid centers on earth.

The beings controlling the moon at that time lost control of it, causing massive life ending catacalysms .

With the moon being so old, how come there isnt too much ancient history of it?

I always believed that certain mega structures on earth were built by people who knew that the human race was going to suffer another global destruction. They built them as time capsules. containing, history archives, maps, and everything they believed a surving culture would need to rebuild again. They did it in the architecture rather that on paper and removable,breakable,burnable, and theft worthy mediums. This would explain the long lasting, genius constuction of the structures which is claimed to be the oldest man made structures still standing today, and the most mysterious.

It could be very possible that humans or others, left time capsules or relics of great ancient technology on the moon knowing full well that the earthlings would have to reach a certain level of evolution to obtain the them.

Mabey the Earths Hall of Records is really on the moon or something.....



[edit on 27-12-2007 by IvanZana]

namaskar john
i dont know why but i am floating on ur plane and believe in your theories completly ..... but recently ia have read this book by dr. brian wiess....i dont know if you have heard this name the book is called many births many masters.......... and was trying to relate both the theories..... in that case i want to know if that is possible,i mean past lives ,promotion through different planes to attain the 7th and the top most level through your good deeds sounds funny.... but the book is quite interesting and to the fact,,, i dont know if there can be any connection in these two.....
also wanted to know if there is some kind of artificial layering going on the planets and satellites(moons)
please suggest me a good telescope and not very expensive if u have any idea about it
thanx
take care

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
"Mainstream Science" is a lie, whether intentional or not.

You know, once you start to deviate from the common dictionary and invent your own, sky is the limit (and the possibility to effectively communicate with other humans gone).

en.wikipedia.org...

A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, or to avoid punishment.

And your next statement is in the same weird line of special-purpose semantics:

There are gaps and flaws in our knowledgebase (collectively) and the ignorance of these gaps, in my mind, make the lack of knowledge a lie.

Oh, the purpose of science (mainstream science, mind you) is to find the gaps and align our theories with the reality as it is observed. The purpose of the armchair science is to derive satisfaction from sensational claims which is only made possible by re-defining the facts from "mainstream science" as lies. Conveniently, it also apparently makes the proponents exempt from learning science the hard way, such as doing problems in quantum mechanics at least at the college level.

I read an article in Science Daily the other day, and a physicist was discussing the vast areas of emptiness found recently. He said something along the lines of "now that we know this, we are that much closer...".

Read carefully: found recently.

Good for him. There was no evidence for XYZ and now, thanks to new measurements, there is, and we are back to theoretical work! Sounds like good science to me.

I am thinking to myself, "You KNOW nothing. You THINK you know a lot, and ignore evidence to the contrary to as to not disillusion yourself and lose grant money."

Compared to scientists, BFFT, it is you who knows nothing, sorry for pointing out the obvious. What you are saying is as silly as giving John Lear advice on how exactly to use throttle on a short runway and what can go wrong with avionics. Or to say that Eric Clapton is using the wrong type of guitar pick.

Evidence is the life blood of science and it's not perfect and needs to be looked at. What better way to receive a grant when you come up with a novel and exciting research that's solid, as opposed to fancy and silly speculations of archair scientists?


[edit on 27-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by buddhasystem


Ahhh, dear friend.

You inject your inferrences while ignoring the true implications. You display the same thing i described above.

Ok...so you split a hair on the "lie" definition. Fine work.

But you continue to state that science is in a good condition, on the whole (or, that is what i gather from your statements) while ignoring several glaring problems.

Where is this dark matter? For a group of people who require so much evidence, this is the biggest red herring i have thus far seen. Instead of saying something more truthful, such as "Our mathematics don't seem to work given what we currently know. So, we will need to either include the the mass/energy from something that we have no idea what it is (and we will call it dark matter), or we will have to re-examine our discipline and try to calibrate this disparity." Do you seriously not find it ridiculous? I don't need to hear anymore of this "if you don't do the work..." stuff...i am asking from the perspective of a layperson/investor. In the same way that you, as a lawyer, can state your opinion on Roe V Wade, i wish to elucidate an opinion on your discipline.

But it isn't just physics. I know the least about physics (as is obvious, and admitted to). Other disciplines i know about. I had the opportunity to meet with and know Bob Bakker while i live in Wyoming, and learned quite a bit. Even his discipline is in shambles. In the 20 short years since i was a schoolage kid we have gone from the "Super-predator" to the "Chixclub Impact" extinction theory. I have no issue with these theories. What i have problem with, however, is teaching only ONE of these theories as fact, when we have no idea if it is fact or not. Evidence may point to it...but that means little with fact and reality.

The guy that found how to make seawater burn....have we ever considered this as a possible ELE? Bombardment of radio waves in the right frequency range to allow for the physical burning of the oceans?

What about the Clovis People? Do we STILL want to believe that man wasn't on this continent before them? Despite THOUSANDS of pieces of evidence to the contrary. So, here we have examples of the highly touted evidence being completely ignored.

You fail to see my point: that virtually ALL of science is a best guess. Yes, it pains you to hear that said of your career and lifes work. But ignorance must be denied.

There are so many variables, many of which are shrouded in compounded ignorance (a la Manly P Hall, meaning you are ignorance of the level of your own ignorance....mankinds plight).

Everything we "know" is subject to change. That is not truth, it is falsehood. Propagation of this makes it a lie. Sure, you can say it never occured to you, and i will ask you if Newton thought he was an idiot. Of course he didn't. He was ignorant of the depth of his own ignorance, too.

The main difference here, i think, is that i KNOW that i am ignorant, and a fool. That makes at least 1 person who lives without that illusion.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
You inject your inferrences while ignoring the true implications.

I sure as hell didn't ignore anything, dear BFFT.

Ok...so you split a hair on the "lie" definition. Fine work.

I cannot accept your compliment in this form because it's not splitting hair but pointing out your attempt to slander science and scientist based on conveniently modified definition of what "lie" is.

But you continue to state that science is in a good condition, on the whole (or, that is what i gather from your statements) while ignoring several glaring problems.

I continue to be amazed by what science can do and does for us. Knowing it's a hard field to be in, first hand, I at least appreciate what the scientists do. All your whining about how bad science is, is similar to complaining that medicine didn't ultimately save your relative from terminal cancer (God forbid). There are still things people aren't perfect at doing, but damn those who say we are not trying.

Where is this dark matter? For a group of people who require so much evidence, this is the biggest red herring i have thus far seen. Instead of saying something more truthful, such as "Our mathematics don't seem to work given what we currently know.

Geez, this is looking a little paranoid. If we think that there is extra mass is out there, that's quite a plausible theory. You asking "where is this dark matter" as if it exposes some kind of conspiracy is just unbelievable. The technique of measuring the missing transverse momentum is well known and used in particle physics (just as an example). Even such commonplace now particles as neutrinos were discovered by inference because something was indeed missing. If this concept doesn't work for you, I wholeheartedly urge you to open you mind which seems very closed indeed.

So, we will need to either include the the mass/energy from something that we have no idea what it is (and we will call it dark matter), or we will have to re-examine our discipline and try to calibrate this disparity." Do you seriously not find it ridiculous?

Not at all.

I don't need to hear anymore of this "if you don't do the work..." stuff...i am asking from the perspective of a layperson/investor.

Unfortunately, the relative ignorance of the layperson/investor in matters of physics, when compared to physisists, makes it extremely hard to satisfy natural curiosity of said layperson investor because the physics involved is pretty damn hard.

But it isn't just physics. I know the least about physics (as is obvious, and admitted to).

And yet you have the gut to summarily accuse professionals in this field of being liars, for gossake.

The guy that found how to make seawater burn....have we ever considered this as a possible ELE? Bombardment of radio waves in the right frequency range to allow for the physical burning of the oceans?

This is one of the more bogus things I've read about. It is possible to break up water by electrolysis and if the radio waves are intense enough this will probably happen, however, as an "energy source" this doesn't work. If you microwave water you may be able to ineed release some hydrogen, but you want even break even with the energy balance.

You fail to see my point: that virtually ALL of science is a best guess. Yes, it pains you to hear that said of your career and lifes work. But ignorance must be denied.

Look, deny your own first, than try to "help" other, OK?

We all know that science is best guess, and the best guess is defined by matching available facts... Which do not involve antigravity devices on the space shuttle, or a proposition that John Lear is an android from the galaxy, or that Moon has a dense atmosphere.



[edit on 27-12-2007 by buddhasystem]