SpaceMax I have a question. Here is a photo of the farside, specifically just south on Lomonosov.

On the last George Noory show I did with Richard Hoagland we discussed this colorized portion of Apollo 8-12-2209.

Hoagland called it an 'airline terminal'

I call it a 'space terminal'.

I realize I am setting myself up 'big time' here but what would you call it?

I would respectfully like to thank SpaceMax for the continued 'pounding'.

And I would respectfully reply..You're welcome!

haven't got anything better to do?

Probably, but I like procrastinating. How about you? Telling lies about the Moon and not labeling it properly as "science fiction" is a bit of a time-waster too, don't you think? You could have had that garage cleaned up by now, or finished your Christmas list. (which reminds me, I'm good on socks and underwear this year...honest) But you did at least clarify your position on these matters to some degree, as noted in your new sig line.



I'm agreed that the neutral point has been well covered, but if you'd like to discuss Aristarchus in nauseating geological detail, I'd be happy to. But not in this thread. Is this particular crater pertinent to the book and it's advertising?

Crack open a new thread and call it say...The Shocking Horrible Truth about Aristarchus...or something like that and we can toss it around.

On the other hand, I could go and clean up my garage, or defrag my hard drive.

Thanks again for the pounding.

Stop it already, you're welcome...really!

Originally posted by johnlear
SpaceMax I have a question. Here is a photo of the farside, specifically just south on Lomonosov.

Hoagland called it an 'airline terminal'

I call it a 'space terminal'.

I realize I am setting myself up 'big time' here but what would you call it?

At the risk of getting off-topic again...
I'm rather fond of Lomonosov, (the astronomer, not the crater) Do you know what discovery he's best known for? (look it up, you'll get a kick out of it...I think. It relates to the planet Venus)


I'd say it's a crater rim, assuming the picture you've posted is as you say. It could be electron microscopy of some needed dental work.
Much like Hoagland, you've boogered it up with colors and lines and arrows and probably some writing on the back (sorry, now I've got "Alices Restaurant" in my head) and seem to be trying to tell me what I'm supposed to be seeing. Can you reference a picture I can look up or post a clearer image or two?
Until I can get this dang song out of my head, I'm going to call it a "Bus Station".

[edit on 2-12-2007 by SpaceMax]
.............
Oops, you did include a reference number, and I skipped right past it, sorry.
I snagged the photo, and I think I found the feature in question. If it were an airport, spaceport, bus station or go-cart track, it looks to be at least 15 or 20 miles from end to end. Rather large, wouldn't you say?

I don't think you could spot a terrestrial terminal of any kind at an altitude of 60 miles, particularly at such an oblique angle. Even if you had Chuck Yeagers exceptional eyeballs circa 1944! But I can't say I've looked for one (especially one that large) from that height.

I does look to me like the sort of crater wall slumping that you find in many craters of that size, and characteristic of slumping combined with overlay of another crater such as is happening with Edison crater right next door.

While a crater wall might make a good location for a EM launcher, provided it had a long shallow incline, it seems like an unlikely spot for an airport being perched next to such a steep grade.
Of course there's those thrilling westbound landings into San Diego.....

[edit on 2-12-2007 by SpaceMax]

John, I'd read your "review". My question remains unanswered. Did you read the book? Or at least, substantial sections of it, in critical areas? Do you really think NASA deliberately scheduled space shots for Hitler's birthday or for superstitious stellar alignments?

Originally posted by JimO

Do you really think NASA deliberately scheduled space shots for Hitler's birthday or for superstitious stellar alignments?

Thanks for the post Jim. It certainly seems that way. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

But what I would really like to know is, with your tremendous intellect and knowledge of NAZA shenanigans, on January 27, 1967, Apollo 204 (Apollo 1) burned up on Pad 34 Level A8 killing Grissom, White, Chaffee and a 4th man whose name and job has been hidden from the public for 40 years.

This man, whose identity I know, was helping with troubleshooting the problems that Apollo 204 had. Actually Joe Shea should have been there, laying on his back in the bay beneath the astronauts couches, down beside the E.C.U. Joe was the program manager.

But as we know, Shea had to be in New York.

And do you know who were celebrating that night? The night that the astronauts burned up in Apollo 204?

Webb, von Braun, Gilruth, Devus, Phillips, Mueller plus the chief executives of the companies that held the prime contract for Apollo – North American, Grumman, Boeing, Martin, Douglas, McDonnell – were all together, in one room, celebrating a successful day. (Apollo – The Race to The Moon, Charles Murray & Catherine Bly Cox, A Touchstone Book, published by Simon and Schuster Copyright 1989 Cox and Murray, Inc. LOCCPD TL789.8.U6A558 ISBN 0-671-61101-1

So do you know who NAZA put in there? I wonder if you do. I suspect so. He was a member of NAZA's secret astronaut corps.

And when they all burned up 'accidentally' NSA had to secure the area, pull the smoking remains of the 'secret astronaut' out and then let NAZA in 45 minutes later. It then took NAZA 6 hours to remove the bodies of Grissom, White and Chaffee.

My question is, Jim, what was the name of the 'secret astronaut' who perished in the Apollo 204 fiasco? Do you know it?

Originally posted by welivefortheson
answer me this,why would a long serving professional and well payed man risk his reputation and sever his retirement packages in order to make a bit of short term attention/cash?.

Duh! Abandon all logic ye who enter here.

This whole fiasco is spin to discredit findings of Lunar anomalies everywhere.

The book is probably more over sensationalized propaganda with purposeful disinfo scattered throughout by cointel and spook country agents.

See how they do protest since we started to call into question the status quo of belief. You will see a lot more stunts like this as our influence catches on.

Originally posted by JimO
Do you know the name of the astronaut now hovoring 300 miles up, over your ranch, tuned in to the brainwaves from your skull? Do you know his name?

Ah yes, the ranch. I don't think the old Sherman can give us anything new, and the French will beat Intalek, I'll bet a shiny penny on it!

At the risk of being discredited, I will venture a guess here...Jesus?

So, JO, where do I go if Earth is a cargo cult?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Because, if you read the threads with enough attention, you will realize that John is trying to use a quoted result of a measurement he thinks somebody actually made, and which was reported (supposedly) by von Braun.

"which was reported (supposedly) by von Braun"

NO not supposedly... unless you are calling the Time Magazine article a lie... is this your contention?

"At a point 43,495 miles from the Moon, lunar gravity exerted a force equal
to the gravity of the Earth, then some 200,000 miles distant." - Wernher von Braun (Time Magazine, July 25, 1969.)

I realize you are here on a 'mission' but your twisting of information is not helping your cause...

On June 10th 1998 a college student posted this question on an "ask the experts' question forum..

"What is the gravitational neutral point between the Earth and the Moon?
Is there empirical data from Apollo?? I can calculate it with Newton's law of
Gravitation, but I wanted to know if it has been found."

Mike Cottrell-Tribes Grade level: grad (science)
City: Whitehorse State/Province: YT Country: Canada
Area of science: Astronomy

On Jul 8 1998, David Ellis, Researcher, NASA Lewis Research Center (Area of science: Astronomy) posted this comment as part of his answer..

"An accelerometer on the Apollo Command Module should have discerned the exact point where each spacecraft went through the neutral point on their journey to the Moon, but no explicit reference could be found to confirm this." David Ellis

Now you have already told me that the measurements on the Apollo 8 spacecraft were 'due to faulty equipment'... you have further stated that you believe because Von Braun was German he 'confused' metric values with US values... despite the fact he has been in the US for 20 years at this point working as NASA's top scientist...

Now you state that an interview he "supposedly' made... You also stated "zero information on that measurement " yet you claim the "readings on the spacecraft were faulty"

Seems to me you are grasping at straws here...


I have also heard it said in this and other threads that the neutral point is not important...

"It is also an important point in flights to the Moon because if the spacecraft reaches the neutral point with any forward velocity, it can then fall to the Moon without expending additional fuel for thrust." - David Ellis

So it would seem it IS important...

So all this aside... although JimO has stated he doesn't wish to answer questions on the neutral point ( I can understand why) I wish to ask the same question the student did...

Is there empirical data from Apollo??

You yourself said "Again I'm telling you that there is zero information on that measurement and how that happened if at all"

So what I want to know is WHY is this important data NOT AVAILABLE? Surely it should be NO PROBLEM to get these figures direct from NASA no matter WHAT the value is...

It is a simple request... where is the reading? There were several Apollo missions... your comment on the reading "how that happened if at all" is silly

JimO I understand that you are very knowledgeable about NASA... Is it to much to ask to get some real data from NASA on this issue?

And if this is as buddhasystem claims "zero information on that measurement " then please explain to me WHY this is not available... it would seem that this would lay to rest the argument, would it not?

So until someone shows me these results to back up the skeptics claim...







[edit on 2-12-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

JimO I understand that you are very knowledgeable about NASA... Is it to much to ask to get some real data from NASA on this issue?

Zorgon, the 'real data' has already been presented to you and you haven't understood it. Start a separate thread on the topic if you want more tutoring, but I'd prefer to stay on theme here, because it's getting juicier and juicier.

Originally posted by JimO
If we can return to the theme of the top of this thread, there are some interesting developments you might be interested in. Bara's own blog no longer posts my research results, so here they are:

Greetings Jim and welcome to ATS...

LOL "Keeping on Topic" here is not always easy... thanks for adding your point of view on Ken Johnston.

Perhaps we could invite M. Bara, R Hoagland or Ken Johnson over here to debate this... Now THAT would be an interesting debate

When I started this thread I had no idea it would become such a hot topic. Within 6 hours we had 39,000 views... I don't know if that is a record but certainly an eye opener...

Seems this issue has touched a nerve or two... And I am willing to bet has generated a few book sales in the process (no we don't get a commission )

It is really too bad that they took this approach to 'disclosure" I am sure most here were really expecting to see something at least, especially since the Hoagland/Johnston "press release" at the NPC was timed a week before the CNN Larry King Show and subsequent NPC press release the following Monday (another one we don't have all the details from)

[edit on 2-12-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by JimO
Zorgon, the 'real data' has already been presented to you

Well I have had internet issues for the last week and I must have missed it... but I checked through the posts and did not see any NASA instrument readings posted... but no problem...

As to "another thread" thanks for the tip, but I am sure there are already enough on that issue...

Your use of 'quotes' on 'real data' has been noted

But since I started this topic on Ken et al... I have no problem with keeping the focus...

Originally posted by JimO
Yeah, I see I just won my bet about which looney would be first out of the box on the 'paid disinformation agent' smear.

Oh how disappointing....

After reading your five post 'expose' of Johnson et al... I was sure we would finally have some intelligent discussion on the topic..

But I see you have chosen to 'set the tone'... I find that extremely disappointing coming from someone of your claimed stature... And I see the post got four stars as well... LOL let me guess from whom... and I see Mr Penny was quick to comment on that "looney" comment with his usual fantastic one liner wit...

Pity...

Originally posted by Enrikez
Does John think he's funny or something? He hopes the shine will distract from his ugliness.

Very nobel of you... speaking of a person in the third party when he is on the thread...

You want a forum to 'have a go"? No problem I can provide that just say the word... As myself and Undo are the only moderators on that forum we might let ya 'go for it" though judging by this post I doubt you could keep it civil

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Off topic, but curious what the weather was like there when that picture was taken. I noticed you were both wearing long sleeves. My wife's grandfather owns two defunct silver mines outside of Yearington, Nevada. I was only there once, but do remember it being damn cold, especially toward the evenings and at night.

Friday night was cold its at 4300 feet and it is end of November, but it warmed up the next couple of days... Amazing place... the boulders and "early man" sites in the area make you feel you are right back in the stone age. Add to that the Native sites dating back to the first century, the Spanish mining operations and the old late 1800's mining boom its an awesome area...

And best of all its so far off the beaten track that only experienced ATV'ers get up there and they pretty much honor and respect the area and leave it pristine. I will do an extensive photo tour of the area next spring thru fall and post it...

Originally posted by JimOthat spacecraft-based accelerometers would measure zero at and only at the 'neutral point' -- hoagwash!

So just why can we not get a copy of the actual readings? I thought NASA meticulously recorded such data... You say its "hoagwash!" (another chance to take a dig at your nemesis

But I just don't know why NASA is not forthcoming with the figures...

Maybe we can ask the Japanese or Chinese... I am sure one of them should have their own figures...

Originally posted by zorgon
Turns out the guy was an assistant at a ground operation in Germany...(which he admitted to after one person did question how he was on three mission)

Sorry that your comments at Bad Astronomy went into "moderation" and were never seen again. But if you were vidicated in your suspicions then kudos for trying, zorgon.

At least here at ATS ALL sides of an opinion are freely expressed without censorship or 'waiting for approval'.

Exactly. Open and immediate fact checking and cross-checking is why ATS has the most informative threads on the intertubes.