Originally posted by SKUNK2
Your missing my point.
Religion has been twisted so much from the time of the Sumerians.
Why didn't the Sumerians say they were created by an almight supreme being???? Because this wasn't true.
They worshipped "PEOPLE", well actually the Sumerians didn't even worship, they looked up to the creaters(people).

You’ll have to excuse me, but I don’t know a whole lot about the Sumerians other then having crossed paths with some of their stuff in the Planet X threads. First off, I thought that there were only bits of fragments of any of their writings ever found. How they can accurately reconstruct a dead language from those fragments with enough accuracy to understand exactly what they believed is a bit sketchy to me.

Either way though, its going to come down to faith on this one, your going to profess aliens, and I am going to profess angles. It might interest you to know that the Australian Aborigines have almost the same exact belief, they have cave paintings of a group that advised them in ancient times, and the name is just letters off of the Bibles Neliphim.

Originally posted by SKUNK2
Like your cuttings of the old testament you posted, when you read it from a modern perspective it does actually sound like it's aliens that have come to this planet, except that the story/facts have been twisted almost beyond recognition.

You will find many common threads between religions that grew up in isolation from each other, whether it be the American Indians, the Aborigines, or many others. It would suggest one of two possibilities, either they came from a common source, or some are slightly twisted versions told to man by those who wished to cause man and God problems (A.K.A Fallen Angles).

Originally posted by defcon5


You will find many common threads between religions that grew up in isolation from each other, whether it be the American Indians, the Aborigines, or many others. It would suggest one of two possibilities, either they came from a common source, or some are slightly twisted versions told to man by those who wished to cause man and God problems (A.K.A Fallen Angles).

I would suspect they come from a common source. There is too little differentiation between most spiritual beliefs to suggest otherwise, in my honest opinion.

Homosexuality:
No where in the bible does Jesus mention this, It was in Leviticus - the third book of the Hebrew Bible of the Old Testament.
Maybe Christians should consider before going against Jesus in favour of a book Jesus himself threw out.

But then im pretty sure like everything else theres a quote that contradicts that.

Maybe thats why it works so well, it can be interpreted as the reader wishes, so that it fits with their own views, opinions, theories and agendas.
Just a thought

What I want to know is how come all these predictions are vague cryptic clues?
Why does that have to be, Im pretty sure there would be a lot more believers if the predictions where clear and concise and accurate.
'And lo on the eleventh day of the month that shalt be known as September there will be two buildings made of glass and steel in the city known as New York in the country called America, flying craft known as aeroplanes will destroy these buildings...'

Instead we have to all be masters of unscrambling cryptic messages that vaguely describe something AFTER its happened, making no believers, no conversions or a jot of difference.
Way to save us, lead us, help us, 'god'.

In my opinion God exist through fear, "do you want to live forever in a perfect place of light and happiness or die and BUUURRRNNN in heelllll for eternity!?" {small print} we provide no guarantee and no proof of this theory except that of a book rewritten a thousand times with change after change until it suits whomever was in charge at the time.

*little old woman shaking like a sh*tting dog* "Save me Jesus"

[edit on 1/11/07 by eagle32]

I do believe in The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I want to have an eternal life in heaven! I believe that there is a heaven and a hell, a place of torments, etc. There is a book, written by a Doctor. I can't remember the name of the book, but he had patients who died, and when they came back to life, they had either gone to heaven or hell. Also, I saw a TV show, where 4 men died and actually went to Hell, and told of their experiences. I wish that the non-believers on this board would check out these types of things. How can you not believe in a higher power? I try to live by the teachings of the Bible, and I want God's Blessings upon my life, but he makes it clear that it is not always a Rose Garden, that we will have some persecutions!

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
God loves you but will send you to Hell (or the Lake of Fire) if you sin, if He loved us so much wouldn't He create some kind of "Dimension of Lenient Punishment" why would he lump us together with Lucifer??

If you love God, and repent your sins though you should never have to worry about that, it’s more of a punishment for someone who rejects God/Christ. As to the “Lake of Fire”, I am not sure that it is scripturally supported that it is an eternal punishment. It specifically mentions being burned up in a ‘Righteous Fire”, and other places in the Bible describe that as an all-consuming fire. In other words it is possible that it simply means that those who reject are simply destroyed outright, or cease to exist, not tortured for all eternity.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
God is the god of the whole universe but decides to only spread his message through one obscure middle eastern religion.

It was supposed to be spread through the Jews, but the Jews rejected the Messiah because he was not a Warrior King of the Line of David, which they had expected. The Jews were a very well known religion, and many of them traveled and interacted with people from India to Europe and Africa. A fairly vast region at the center of the largest two continents of the Earth.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
because my devout father kept saying the Bible was God's actual words, and I said "What about the verse where Paul says women should be quiet and yada yada" and he said "It was the tradition at the time" and of course at that point he'd basically ran over his own foot.

it’s really not fair to hold a misquote by your father against an entire religion.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Killing was a big theme in ancient religious documents, everyone's favorite epic heroes went around sieging cities, unless the killing was in self-defense God probably wasn't too happy about it, the real God anyway...

Often God commanded it when it was in reference to his people. As I said earlier it was not a crime for them to go to war if it was a just war. As harsh as this may sound, God does not have to measure up to mans ideas of Justice, as he is not a Human and is of a different station. It’s not any more wrong for God to allow one of his creations to be killed then it is for me to delete a document I created on my computer. As I said above there was even an argument between God and Moses on this topic, which ended up with Moses being denied entering the Promised Land. There is an element of Predestination in the Bible, and sometimes God would allow a War to be waged and Won to fulfill a promise, or to show his power to his followers. I believe that somewhere in the Bible, which I am currently too tired to look up, it mentions that God “Hardened the Heart of Pharaoh, so he could show his power to his chosen people”. While that may not sound fair to us, we did not create pharaoh to begin with, and God did.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
but I always wonder why so many Christians are obsessed about homosexuals, like they think about it all the time, I say let em do whatever they want as long as I don't have to think about it, its their business...

I somewhat agree with the attitude of keeping ones nose out of others bedrooms, as long as they don’t start trying to force their lifestyles on the rest of us. The big argument between the two groups was not started by the Christians, but the other way around. The US was founded as a Christian Country, and that has been the majority here since day one. Religion thus entered into the very creation of the country, and it appears on our laws, and even on our money. When Homosexuality started to increase and become more prominent, they started having issues with many of these laws and restrictions within the government and society. So they began to wage open war on the Christians through their lobby groups. They would play unfair tactics such as showing up to picket in front of businesses that supported Christian organizations, and embarrassing them into dropping support by performing sexual acts on their lawns. They started going after everything, getting sites labeled as hate sites for teaching Christianity, and wanting to even have the right to have others children taught this lifestyle in school. I don’t think your going to find any Christian that is going to agree with that idea, so many Christian groups started to fight back

Originally posted by eagle32
No where in the bible does Jesus mention this, It was in Leviticus - the third book of the Hebrew Bible of the Old Testament.
Maybe Christians should consider before going against Jesus in favour of a book Jesus himself threw out.

He did speak out against it because he spoke out against both fornication and adultery, homosexuality can fall under either of those depending on the circumstances.

Originally posted by eagle32
What I want to know is how come all these predictions are vague cryptic clues?

They are intended for believers and those who have studied the rest of the Word fairly thoroughly. To properly understand them you have to have the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by eagle32
Im pretty sure there would be a lot more believers if the predictions where clear and concise and accurate.

But life is a test to see who will follow on blind faith without substantial proof. If God had wanted a bunch of “Yes Men” he could have created us already knowing the truth, instead he wants us to believe and follow of our own free will.

Originally posted by eagle32
we provide no guarantee and no proof of this theory except that of a book rewritten a thousand times with change after change until it suits whomever was in charge at the time.

You should go read a few of my posts above where I mention Polycarp, Irenaeus, and the Protestant Reformation. You’ll very quickly see that the Bible has not been rewritten constantly, and even with modern translations (which can get pretty far off base), you can always go back to the original source material.

That's a wonderful comment, Blueangel7 - and a great avatar!

When we are 'born again', God starts to work on creating a sparkling diamond from the diamond-in-the rough! It takes some polishing and cutting to do it 'just right'. He uses the model of His Son in our subsequent life to make us perfect! Usually that hurts (sometimes it hurts a lot) - but it only hurts for a little while (our life on Earth). As the diamond is polished and cut, it starts to sparkle and reveal and reflect His beautiful Light - just like it looks in your avatar. Can you imagine how His entire collection of diamonds will sparkle once He finishes His work?! (that's called the 'Body of Christ').

Originally posted by Blueangel7
There is a book, written by a Doctor. I can't remember the name of the book, but he had patients who died, and when they came back to life, they had either gone to heaven or hell. Also, I saw a TV show, where 4 men died and actually went to Hell, and told of their experiences.

Well there you go, here's me thinking heaven and hell were just rubbish but a Dr's book and a TV show provide 'concrete' proof of heaven and hell ( I bet its a christian one too). I remember watching a TV show where people were abducted by aliens and seen sasquatch's, the loch ness monster, chupacabras and the like. I've also read books to the same effect - Does this mean that all these things are real? What about the X-Files?

I wish that the non-believers on this board would check out these types of things. How can you not believe in a higher power?

I don't see the need for a higher power and have never came across a higher power so therefore dont believe in said higher power. Why do you NEED your higher power?

I try to live by the teachings of the Bible, and I want God's Blessings upon my life, but he makes it clear that it is not always a Rose Garden, that we will have some persecutions!

Good for you, but its not for everyone, in fact your beliefs are not even the beliefs of the majority of the world's population so why should we even take your word for it?.

G

Blueangel7:

shihulud is (still) a diamond-in-the-rough! Imagine what he has to look forward to IF God decides he is worth working on!? Of course, if God decides to leave him alone, he will never SEE! the Light.

[edit on 1-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

so it is saying that your spouse is saved and cleared if you are saved? thats what is sounds like. the research im talking about is biblical history...the relation of christianity to other religions and such...keep in mind this thread was created to get ideas to take, along with alot of other guestions, to my pastor and see if he can answer them.

Originally posted by THEGodSend
That's a wonderful comment, Blueangel7 - and a great avatar!

When we are 'born again', God starts to work on creating a sparkling diamond from the diamond-in-the rough! It takes some polishing and cutting to do it 'just right'. He uses the model of His Son in our subsequent life to make us perfect! Usually that hurts (sometimes it hurts a lot) - but it only hurts for a little while (our life on Earth). As the diamond is polished and cut, it starts to sparkle and reveal and reflect His beautiful Light - just like it looks in your avatar. Can you imagine how His entire collection of diamonds will sparkle once He finishes His work?! (that's called the 'Body of Christ').

Thanks, yeah, Chissler makes amazing avatars! I like your avatar, also! I know that one day we will see the light of Heaven! You are like a diamond who has been refined, and is as beautiful on the inside as the outside! I look forward to seeing the jewels in Heaven, and the jewels on our Crowns, and THE JEWEL, God and Jesus!

time4chg07, I am curious to know what exactly you are looking for with this thread. Are you looking for the truth about spirituality? Or are you simply trying to gather information about Christianity so that you can take it to your pastor?

The reason I ask is that, like you, I recently went through a process of questioning my faith. I grew up in a Christian home and adhered to Christianity until I was 30. But over the couple years toward the end some questions and doubts began to seat themselves in my mind. That started a process of looking for answers which eventually lead me to deconvert out of Christianity.

An interesting thing happened to me a couple months ago. My wife's close friend, who is also a pastor, learned of my change in beliefs. I was very surprised when he encouraged me to question what I believed, and come to my own conclusions about my spirituality. He told me that he went through the same process when he was in high school, and that he was of the opinion that EVERYONE should have to go through the same thing. In fact he is encouraging his own daughter, who is in high school, to pursue her spiritual beliefs on her own.

Far too many people are raised in environments where one spiritual belief system exists. As a child I was brought up in a Christian environment, and for 30 years I followed that system of belief. I think that that is how the vast majority of people wind up believing in the things they do.

I encourage you to do your research with a grain of salt. Much of what you will find on the internet may appear to be truth when, in fact, it may only be partially true. Unfortunately we're talking about topics that have ancient origins which, over the course of time, have either been lost or destroyed. So now we are left things that have been handed down for centuries, translated to the point of losing meaning, and purposely altered in order that certain peoples will reap benefits.

Lastly, I would like to make one suggestion. This is something that I am struggling with constantly as I continue to seek out what I believe is the truth. Please, try as hard as you can to start small and simple. Disregard all of these topics like homosexuality, the Bible, racism, etc. Let me give you an example.

Since you stated that you believe there exists a higher power, ask yourself this question: What is spirituality? Entry #3 for the definition of "spiritual" from the Yahoo dictionary says, "Of, from, or relating to God; deific." There it is, in simple terms. Spirituality is the part of ones life which has something to do with God or, as you put it, a higher power.

With that in mind, I pose this question: What right does another person have in dictating your spirituality, telling you how to worship, and controlling your relationship with God? EVERY person should be given the chance to do those things as they see fit, and if they choose not to believe in God, then that deserves equal respect. So I encourage you to break down your analysis to the simplest terms. As you do this, ALWAYS keep an open mind and try your hardest not to let your old beliefs influence your train of thought as you follow this road. I can tell you right now that I have found it extremely difficult to do that. For example, I have been trying to come to terms with the origin of evil lately, and I keep going back to how the Bible says that God created evil. So I have to remind myself that God didn't reach down from the heavens with a giant quill and jot down the entire Biblical text. Man wrote it, so I can't assume any part of it to be 100% truth.

Remember, keep it simple and form your own conclusions. Do not limit yourself. Dig into history, philosophy, the beliefs of ALL religions, etc. And don't let someone else tell you what you can or cannot believe. This is something YOU must decide yourself. I hope the road that leads there is enlightening and rich with love, and ends with a sense of peace and contentment for you.

How can it be explained about the Bible? Are people saying that they can not relate and understand and think about what the Bible is teaching? That people will take the words literally and not think if it is Right or Wrong. That is what the Bible is about in the first place -- thinking and consciousness to decide with free will what makes rational thought and thinking up in the first place.

Or you here to take Orders by reading something in the Bible - that is fanaticism first of all. Who said that Fanaticism was Right in the first place -- no where in the Bible does it state that. In fact in the Old Testament and the Laws given to Moses, it clearly states the Ten Commandments. Then the Two Commandments of Jesus came when Jesus was here alive on this Planet and replaced those Ten Commandments. Yes, Jesus added or re-interpreted those Ten Commandments by stating his Two Commandments.

Do Unto Others as You would want them to Do Unto You.

Let's all have diseases like Aids and end all of it -- let alone that viruses and superbugs exist nowadays along with WNV because first of all Creation is Alive and those little viruses and bugs can mutate -- along with some scientists thinking that bird flu may mutate and attack humans -- but that actually is not the proper word to use -- those bugs are alive and will continue to seek life -- perhaps it is because humans are not humble enough to know the consequences of what they are doing sometimes. Epidemics have happened on this Planet before killing of a lot of people by the millions because humans let down their guard and eliminated theirselves through stupidity and foul deeds. That does not mean that it may happen forever - but it seems to be something that dictates or tells the rest of us - that if you continue to deny existence -- it can strike back and kill you -- and that is what it is all about. Some people do not equate that with "Evil" but a natural occurance and not much can be done about it - except to continue on -- to find cures or again make life better. But, it was "Evil" in a Degree that led up to those happenings by assuming too much. I do not assume that when I read the Bible that I also do not have to think about what the story is about. I have free will to decide that, and why should the Bible be any different.

If Evil takes hold too much, and there are many ways it can take hold, then it will self-destruct life as you know it. You do not have the answers to cure the diseases so being lazy in thought continues to take people's life when it may not have been anything more than a phychological problem in the first place. Some other people will do Good about it, but frankly tell you - that they also do not have all the answers. No one does, and again and again -- humans tend to wipe theirselves out by many methods of becoming lazy in thought. Also though at the same time - people do not have to run around overly paranoid either and state that their body can not make defenses through the immune system that may take some time, and help out. But not all the time - for that is life on this Planet and it takes thought instead of insanity or craziness to avoid it.

In the end to me The Bible explains that. Evil will Self-Destruct for the most part and perhaps someday God will say that it was not Good, and wipe out Creation - whether anyone else thought that it was Evil or Not.
The Please, please, please, please, please - give a person another chance - has to test patience - when there should have been no test in the first place. Then it becomes all excuses - whether it is biological or not - something has to be done - if a person can not control his/her/spacealien's self and other people have to demand that the person be controlled -- or even the Devil I guess. So, God states he gives Defenses to People who believe in Him to defend against those States of Mind that make people not respond to guarding against that kind of Act or State of Mind.

The Ying and Yang of any of it is that -- with some proper thought, people will be more Aware and Conscious throughout All of Life.

It is not something that is unnatural or is a hassle or anything else, it is just a quality of life that people can give his/her/spacealien's self and not go overly fanatic about any of it - unless it is so bad or Evil that others to Survive and Exist are Threatened -- whether it is Fear at the time -- or a realization that all could die by some horrible Evil in this World. If God thought that Humans should be Destroyed, He need not Answer to Us first, but even God has decided that He can not break his Laws and that he must answer to Himself first. That is why Evil is not Destroyed at this Time and all of Creation -- because first God must Obey His Own Rules. Of course, there will always be that question of seeking Wisdom and Continuing On with Life because What the Heck Else is There?


Now, try and have some humor about religion also.

Oops, now the Second Commandment of Jesus.

Love your Neigbhor as You Yourself Want to Be Loved.

Some people will not care no matter what if it does not affect them too much, and state that "only the strong survive". Well folks that is Evil again rearing its Ugly Head -- what about when the Bible states to Help Out People because that is what Jesus did - when some others could not See or Others could not Walk - and still Others were Brought Back to Life - after that person had been Dead. Don't some Doctors do that Today with the Tools Humans can use. How much more could be done -- if it could be done only with the Mind and Brain -- much of that Denied right as of nowadays because Humans Still Do Not Understand How to Do That.

Anyway, try and have some Happiness anyway on this Planet - because with Life - it can also kill Humans Off -- because it also wanted to Survive and Seek Life. It seems to be an Inherent Law of the Way Creation Was Made. God states not to go Overboard with the Emotions though, because All of Creation can be Wiped Out and someday Humans will have to Find Grace instead of Power (which may be what the Devil Uses instead) to keep Life Going instead of Non-existence.




[edit on 11/1/2007 by AmoebaSized]

well one of the reasons i bring up homosexuality so much is because it does concern me....and thats what made me question my faith in the first place.

i will be back here in a sec...gotta actually work lol