Why need religion?

If there were no religion there would be a whole lot more death, destruction, murder, vandalism and evil other stuff we can't even imagine.

Religion provides, for most people who are sensible, a guiding moral light.

Only stupid, ignorant people think religion is bad.... the world would be a lot worse with out it.

As an example - Let us suppose that I daily want to kill idiots who are atheist, or who cut me off in traffic and for any number of reasons. But because I am not entirely convinced that there is no god and that if there is a god and it frowns upon my killing of inferior genetic material; I refrain from killing those around me. Thus, philosophy and religion can help keep "us" as a species civil.

-Euclid

Religion doesn't really do what you think it does.

Crime is no better across the US (high theism) than across most of europe (low theism).

Atheists are no less moral than theists. Indeed, I think acting moral-like due to obedience of some apparently god-given rules (external motivation) is not of the same quality as doing it for internal reasons.

So, when you are driving along and want to bash the head in of some dude who cut you up, and you decide not to do so because god would be angry, rather than because this is a bad action, then you are just being obedient, not moral. As these 'good' books show, god can just as easily decide to act immoral, and even order people to perform immoral actions.

Obedience != morality

reply to post by euclid


That's funny, I'm an atheist and I refrain from killing people because it's the right thing to do. No god necessary.

what does it say about people who only keep from performing wrong acts because they think the sky fairy is watching them?

Originally posted by melatonin
Religion doesn't really do what you think it does.

Crime is no better across the US (high theism) than across most of europe (low theism).

Atheists are no less moral than theists. Indeed, I think acting moral-like due to obedience of some apparently god-given rules (external motivation) is not of the same quality as doing it for internal reasons.

So, when you are driving along and want to bash the head in of some dude who cut you up, and you decide not to do so because god would be angry, rather than because this is a bad action, then you are just being obedient, not moral. As these 'good' books show, god can just as easily decide to act immoral, and even order people to perform immoral actions.

Obedience != morality

This was a very good reply to a rediciously stupid post.

I think it deserves to be re-read.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
reply to post by euclid

 

That's funny, I'm an atheist and I refrain from killing people because it's the right thing to do. No god necessary.
what does it say about people who only keep from performing wrong acts because they think the sky fairy is watching them?

Your right. You don't need god to tell you that killing someone/raping someone/stealing is wrong. You KNOW its wrong.

Also I love your word the sky fairy. I haven't though of that one.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by jca2005

 

I do not get one thing though, how do religions bring conflicts, theft, and wars?

Because religions dont' cause wars regardless what everyone seems to want to believe. The belief in a higher power doesn't bring about all the BS that humanity has and is engaging in.
It's what people do in its name that is the problem.
Like I have said a gazillion times before regardless of someone assertation that those are jsut "fringe" benefits, at the BASE of every single so called "Holy War" has been greed, meaning there has been some sort of political or material gain to be had for fighting. The difference of religious beliefs is just a convient excuse to take those political and material gains by force. And that is not the only excuse humanity likes to use national differences, differences of ethnicity, all boiling down to
"They are not us. So whatever we do to them is quite alright."

[edit on 1-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

And I would like to add.
The thing venerating whatever higher power whatever group of people choose to believe in is NOT the higher power.

Just like science is NOT nature. Science is a tool to study nature. Not the thing being studied.

I personally reject mostly the concept of religion particularly organised religion. But I do believe in a, well its more complex than the word I shall use but here we go, "higher power" (shortened purely because I do not wish to type out my thoguhts on the subject, don't have all that much time to do that). And it seems to me that most people have a real bad habit of forgetting that, conviently perhaps?

There are good and bad people. All that matters, is if you accept Christ as your personal savior. If you believe, or remain in disbelief. You can be an excellent moral being, but you're still tinged. All you must do is accept that which has already happened. The unbounded will must direct itself.

reply to post by depth om


All so that the creation can ask for forgiveness from the creator for even existing. Oh. And give your money and more importantly your obiedence to the church.

Oh wait. He created JC as his son and then sacrificed to redeem us to himself. Rather like me killing my grandchild (if I ever have a grandchild she may decide not to have kids) so that I can forgive my daughter cause she ticked me off.

Simple fact man there are others with simular messages that your beloved JC preached. Minus the what sounds like ego filled mumbo jumbo. Or you can discredit them with the same bullets (almost exactly at times) others use to try discredit those others.



[edit on 2-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

[edit on 2-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by depth om


Yeah i do beleive in some things, nothing out of the blue... I probly sounded abit abrupt on the matter, I just think people who like many have allready stated have the need to beleive in things and that it helps in a way to there life.

Personally religion has done nothing for me but i spose like allways its different people different circumstances
IMO keep on beleiving if it helps you grow as a person and live the life you want.

Am i going to hell for saying that? You tell me, personally hell sounds like a night out down the town in my county

Rev.
:w:

[edit on 2-11-2007 by The Rev]

reply to post by jca2005


Why can't everyone be like that? Brainwashing from governments, religions, media, companies, parents, etc. plus factors like environment, peers, personalities, experiences, etc.

There are many factors, not just the religious ones.

________________________________

Originally posted by euclid
If there were no religion there would be a whole lot more death, destruction, murder, vandalism and evil other stuff we can't even imagine.

Religion provides, for most people who are sensible, a guiding moral light.

Only stupid, ignorant people think religion is bad.... the world would be a lot worse with out it.

As an example - Let us suppose that I daily want to kill idiots who are atheist, or who cut me off in traffic and for any number of reasons. But because I am not entirely convinced that there is no god and that if there is a god and it frowns upon my killing of inferior genetic material; I refrain from killing those around me. Thus, philosophy and religion can help keep "us" as a species civil.

-Euclid

I am glad there are religions with deities that frown upon killing inferior genetic material .... as long as I stay genetically inferior, does that take me off the target list of these deities..... .

(sarcasm)

If your God or religion is all that is preventing you from killing anyone who crosses you, by all means, keep that religion and God of yours, if you think it may prevent you from being a future psychopath.

However, please do not assume that everyone else requires religion to stop themselves from killling others indiscriminately. No everyone has tendencies like that or have trouble with them like you may have.

It is cases like these, where I think it is unwise to disprove the religion or God to these particular theists, they may go on killing frenzies.

Of course, the same could also happen should their deitiy, high priest give permisssion to their flock to do so. Just look into the past.

I think not everyone has this problem or is like that, only some people.... hopefully not many.

Religion doesn't get you anything, doesn't get you anywhere. The gospel gives you the life you were meant to have though. The deed of Christ, life. Our way and home, death.