Free energy electromagnetic motor finally a reality?, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 05:24 PM by RogerT

reply to post by plumranch

I could tell you what I'm paying, but it wouldn't be a good representation of European wide rates. I doubt there is that much consistency across the various countries, and many countries use a scaleable pricing tariff anyway, depending on how much you use (the more you use, the more it costs) i'd say between 15-30 US$ cents is a good guess, but it's really a guess.

Again from my experience, not from any kind of authoritative knowledge, gas and oil are the norms for central heating systems.

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 05:34 PM by Nohup

If it works, great. But I am certainly not going to be one of the first to "invest" in it. I would prefer to be the 1,000,000th satisfied customer, rather than the 4th, who frequently ends up in Court in scenarios like this. The open market is a pretty good way to decide whether or not these things are a hoax. I don't hear anybody crying "government interference" or "sabotaged by Big Oil" yet. That usually pops up later after the intrepid inventor disappears (along with the dough).

Also, maybe by the time they make a million of them, maybe they'll be cheap enough for me to afford. Electricity isn't tremendously expensive at the moment, so I can wait.

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 09:32 PM by badw0lf

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Lightglobes work in both the UK and the US, theRiverGoddess, so I don't really think it would be much of an issue slighly modifying a machine you pay $50, 000 for.

So many of these free energy machines turn out to be fake. I can't help but think that this is a hoax.

If it is a hoax, then they sure are making it an elaborate one -

Motors are never sold outright; a sale/lease agreement gives the person the use of the equipment for 5 years which is prepaid, thereafter a nominal fee is payable monthly to maintain the lease agreement, this monthly fee is normally in the region of 100-600 Euro per month, depending on the size of the unit, this fee will include a maintenance contact .

So after the $59kAUD, and after 5 years, you're still bound to them to pay between $155AUD and $940AUD Per Month for contractual continuance.

Thats a bit rich in my books..

So much for Free Energy

[edit on 31/10/2007 by badw0lf]

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 10:17 PM by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by plumranch
Hi MrdDstrbr,
References or links would be greatly appreciated.

I'm working on it...

Bearden mentions Lee, Yang and Wu as having proven vacuum energy in this article.

However it would appear that what Lee and Yang won the Nobel prize for was for disproving the "conservation of parity" law and their prediction of "broken symmetry".

So how we get from "broken symmetry" to proving Vacuum Energy, I'm not exactly sure. All the articles on Lee, Yang and Wu that I can find are so thick with scientific jargon that I can't make any sense of them, since I'm not a physicist or scientist myself.

But I'm sure you've heard that saying "There's enough energy in the empty space in a teacup to power the Earth for a day" or whatever. I'm positive that the high energy density of the vacuum has already been proven in physics for a long time.

Energy from the Vacuum Part 1

(Damn, looks like Part 2 got taken down....)

edit: just found this page: Energy density of the vacuum

[edit on 31-10-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 10:29 PM by MrdDstrbr

reply to post by lonemaverick

Magnets lose their strength by their electrons becoming misaligned, not just because the magnet is doing work.

I could be wrong here, but I think Bearden said that what most electrical engineers do wrong is they have their circuits in loops, so the current flows back around to the magnet and that kills the magnet over time. Supposedly he and Bedini have come up with special circuit configurations to get around that problem. So essentially you can have a dipole that pours out energy from the vacuum indefinitely.

reply posted on 31-10-2007 @ 11:32 PM by plumranch

reply to post by badw0lf

So after the $59kAUD, and after 5 years, you're still bound to them to pay between $155AUD and $940AUD Per Month for contractual continuance.

Hi badwolf,
You and others are having trouble with the price tag but if you had a neighborhood of 10 houses that could cooperate and hook up, or a factory or a large building then it would make good sense at least on paper. The incentive would be in the savings, not just now but into the future. The investment for the 100KW unit would be about 20% of the cost of an average one family dwelling. A builder for instance could build a block of houses and include the power generation in the price of the house with a small monthly fee. A buyer could then expect to pay about $10 a month for electricity (assuming 1000KWH per month which is aout what I use).

It would be much simpler to buy a 5 to 10KW unit, wire your house for the switch over (about $400), plug in and go. But no mention is made about a small model by Perendev.

An example of projected energy savings is the "ground source heat pump" furnace I am installing to heat my home and shop in winter months. The installation including heat exchange loup will cost about $20,000. However with the high cost of the present fuel, propane, I expect to save over $500 a month. The installation should pay for itself in under 10 years. After that my monthly heating will be about $100 a month at present electricity prices.

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 05:09 AM by NRen2k5

reply to post by MrdDstrbr

That’s a pretty bad appraisal of electrical engineers you make.

Now, are you talking about dark energy, or zero point energy?

Can you even say for sure that there’s any dark energy in this corner of the galaxy for us to make use of?

If you’re talking about zero point, you don’t understand that zero point is the lowest possible energy state in a system. Meaning, you can’t get anything more out of it. Zero point isn’t a real, tangible source of energy. It’s just a name we give to the miniscule amount of energy in a given system at rest that we can’t think of a way to harness.

reply to post by hinky

Nah, he’s right on some points. Windmills and hydroelectric dams are best described as free energy in an open loop system. To define them as closed-loop, for starters, you’d have to include the entire planet and sun as part of the system. That’s right. They’re closed loop systems with the sun as the power source.

Originally posted by RogerT:
According to Alan Francour:

"If the magnets are placed in a state of repulsion only against each other in a magnet motor system, I would agree they will lose their magnetism over time. If the magnets in the Perendev magnet motor are always in a state of repulsion only, then this would explain the magnet depletion problem.

However, if the magnets are placed in a working system so as to have repulsion forces on one half cycle and attraction forces on the other half cycle, then the magnets will continue their magnetic field density unchanged as they will realigned themselves."

If the magnets are placed to be in repulsion for half of the cycle and attraction for the other half, they’ll find a state of equilibrium and just sit there. No free energy. Not even perpetual motion.

reply to post by MrdDstrbr

It’s nice to believe in something, I guess.

But if you want to convince the rest of us, would you mind posting a link to a reputable source? Or at least one not tied to Bearden and Bedini?

I could be wrong here, but I think Bearden said that what most electrical engineers do wrong is they have their circuits in loops, so the current flows back around to the magnet and that kills the magnet over time. Supposedly he and Bedini have come up with special circuit configurations to get around that problem. So essentially you can have a dipole that pours out energy from the vacuum indefinitely.

Interesting. Doesn’t exactly address the issue, but interesting.

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 05:38 AM by badw0lf

Originally posted by plumranch
An example of projected energy savings is the "ground source heat pump" furnace I am installing to heat my home and shop in winter months. The installation including heat exchange loup will cost about $20,000. However with the high cost of the present fuel, propane, I expect to save over $500 a month. The installation should pay for itself in under 10 years. After that my monthly heating will be about $100 a month at present electricity prices.

I agree with the first part of your reply, in regards to the building block of units being satisfied with the costs. Im still concerned with the ongoing costs - for what purpose? Anyhoo.

They do have the smaller model, that costs less, but still after 5 years has an ongoing monthly cost of $100 euro. This model was supposedly made for a small house, car, boat, etc. But an ongoing cost then ensures that this 'free energy' is NOT free at all, but no different than current technology. And with current technology, there is a reason why we continue to pay.

Fossil fuels are a disgusting way to supply energy, as is nuclear (No Im not going to enter that debate, its my opinion) so why should a source of energy that is costing no-one anything, continue to incur a cost to the consumer?

It's a confusing and flawed situation.

Now as others have said, if this tech. takes off and becomes cheaper, more efficiently viable and affordable.. we're in for some new things that we'd never considered before.

It leads me to think, a builder constructing their home. The plans are all set, INCLUSIVE of the power unit - an area that would ensure at least 50 years continuous power. If we're talking about tech. that fails after a time, at least. As is with the magnetic concept. I doubt it is, and I honestly doubt this entire idea.

Too much revenue would be lost to fossil fuel based companies that rely on their billion dollar industry... Even at 50k a unit for 5 years and with continued revenue just to continue the 'maintenance' - I don't see it.

People still eat monkeys in parts of africa. And shoot people trying to stop them doing so. People still eat tiger penis soup to fend off aids. People still drink the blood of their enemy mixed with whiskey to saulte victory. People still behead people. People are just not capable of having "Free Energy".

/rant

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 06:41 AM by KaiBosh

*sigh*

How do people still get attention when they talk about overunity devices? They make videos and more videos and put out long rambling diatrabes explaining this and that...

Ten seconds with a multi-meter will prove whether something works or not. People need to stop feeding these whackos with attention - if someone comes up with something they shouldn't have a problem with another person proving it for them.

For the record, my design for an over-unity device was genius - it involved a spinning wheel with sliding magnetic vanes that would be pulled with gravity around a portion of the arc, pull themselves up through magnetic force around another portion of the arc, and then geared shielding would flip into place to allow inertia to overcome the rest of the resistance otherwise. Great on paper!

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 09:21 AM by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Now, are you talking about dark energy, or zero point energy?
....
If you’re talking about zero point, you don’t understand that zero point is the lowest possible energy state in a system. Meaning, you can’t get anything more out of it. Zero point isn’t a real, tangible source of energy. It’s just a name we give to the miniscule amount of energy in a given system at rest that we can’t think of a way to harness.

Right, ZPE isn't the most accurate term.

You can think of it like a raging sea of particles, but they are positively and negatively charged and going in all different directions at once, so the energy doesn't show up as heat, light, or sound etc. Normally you can't even tell it's there without special experimentation (or by looking at a MAGNET.....)

"Quantum Flux" energy or "Energy from the Vacuum" are better terms than ZPE.

It’s nice to believe in something, I guess.

But if you want to convince the rest of us, would you mind posting a link to a reputable source? Or at least one not tied to Bearden and Bedini?

Well some people will never be convinced until the government tells them it's OK to believe in it, ie it gets shown on TV. BUY ONE NOW.....

There's some decent footage of these devices around the internet, but that won't be enough for some.

Other links of interest:

The Potomac Energy Project
Wang Shum Ho Electricity Generator
Self-Recharging Electric Vehicle
The First Advanced Energy Technology Colloquium, August 20 2007

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 11:47 AM by punkinworks

There is a machine with amgnets that will make energy ALREADY, ITS CALLED A GENERATOR.
It stuns me that to this day people still beleive in perpetual motion machines. The people that continue to push these idead are the snake oil salemen of the modern world.
True a wind machine or a hydro electric project or tidal power project all have an energy reqirement to manufacture, but when you look at the energy that went into making the individual items it is balanced out by the amount of energy generated by the end product, over the coarse of many years. There are hydro electric projects here that have been generation electricity for over a hundred years. The amount of energy that they have generated dwarfs the amount used to manufacture the parts. We just dig cement out of the ground here , there is no need for burning limestone.

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 02:08 PM by graysquirrel

I use to not believed in perpetual motion like a good educated engineer. Until, I discovered the channelized air effect. I realized that it answered a lot of unanswered questions such as how a Toronado really works or how the jet stream keep up its perpetual air flow.

What really stuns me is that when it comes to free energy, a lot of people refuse to even look at experimental evidence.

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 03:07 PM by plumranch

It stuns me that to this day people still beleive in perpetual motion machines.

reply to post by punkinworks

Hi punkinworks,
I posted the 1st a d 2nd "laws" of thermodynamics on this thread a while back. Many consider them to be theorys only as they should always have been. A hundred years ago Tessla would have agreed.
At the atomic level the atom is in perpetual motion. It is a stable systems with electrons spinning endlessly at quantum levels around the nucleas. What do you suppose keeps that system going? If it obeyed the "laws" of thermodynamics it would collapse.

reply posted on 1-11-2007 @ 04:44 PM by NRen2k5

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

It’s nice to believe in something, I guess.

But if you want to convince the rest of us, would you mind posting a link to a reputable source? Or at least one not tied to Bearden and Bedini?

Well some people will never be convinced until the government tells them it's OK to believe in it, ie it gets shown on TV. BUY ONE NOW.....

Riiight.

There's some decent footage of these devices around the internet, but that won't be enough for some.

I haven’t seen any decent footage yet. All I’ve seen are stage acts.

Other links of interest:

The Potomac Energy Project

Nice enough site. Nothing to do with free energy, though.

Wang Shum Ho Electricity Generator

Won’t work. Nothing new, either. “Unbalanced” mechanical systems have been drawn up by free energy dreamers for centuries.

Self-Recharging Electric Vehicle

Great ideas, but there’s so much technology in it – so much new technology – that if it ever came to market, it would be prohibitively expensive. Remember The Homer?

The First Advanced Energy Technology Colloquium, August 20 2007

Like your first link. Nice, I guess. But not a demonstration of free energy.

Originally posted by graysquirrel:
I use to not believed in perpetual motion like a good educated engineer. Until, I discovered the channelized air effect. I realized that it answered a lot of unanswered questions such as how a Toronado really works or how the jet stream keep up its perpetual air flow.

What really stuns me is that when it comes to free energy, a lot of people refuse to even look at experimental evidence.

Oh how the mighty have fallen!

Originally posted by plumranch:
At the atomic level the atom is in perpetual motion. It is a stable systems with electrons spinning endlessly at quantum levels around the nucleas. What do you suppose keeps that system going? If it obeyed the "laws" of thermodynamics it would collapse.

This seems to be a constant with perpetual motion fanatics. They will point at anything they don’t understand and tell you it’s perpetual motion.…

reply posted on 2-11-2007 @ 02:35 AM by plumranch

So the molecular system at its simplest level ie. atom or atomic level is usually many electrons spinning endlessly around a nucleas of protons and neutrons. The electrons spin in various levels or orbits which quantum physicists refer to as quantum levels. An atom of calcium existed and was stable at the time of the dinasaurs and it is exactly the same now. The only atoms that decay are the unstable form of elements with higher atomic numbers and they only decay downward to a more stable atom. How could this atomic system exist in a constant manner without an underlying field of energy to support it? Even an ongoing system like our solar system is changing, orbits are usually enlarging or getting smaller (our moon is inching slowly outward), but at the quantum level all is stable! Does this not lead the reasonable scientist to believe there is something maintaining the structure of all things? And if there is an underlying background field could it not be tapped into? At the atomic level (nanotechnology), at the molecular level (chemistry), and with electromagnetics?

reply posted on 2-11-2007 @ 04:35 AM by NRen2k5

Nope. We’d have to do it at a lower level, which as far as I know we can’t do yet. And we’d be using up some atom or other as fuel in the process.

reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 06:45 PM by RogerT

peswiki.com...:perendev_Power_Developments_Pty_(Ltd)#Customers_Not_Getting_Goods

Customers Not Getting Goods
On Nov. 5, 2007, a source who wishes to be anonymous wrote:

Today I went once again to the criminal investigation department in Munich, asking more details and verify the information I bring to you.

We know of no validation of Mike Brady's products since he came to Europe.

I know personally that the public prosecutor's office in Munich has had 20 customers who did not get any goods after payment. But the public prosecutor's office must stop the investigation because the money was paid to a Swiss company. So those "customers" would be technically considered "investors", with no rights to get anything -- only the risk. The customer payments were thus converted by contract into risk capital.

The public prosecutor's office is watching him very closely. If he makes a small mistake, they will catch him. The same holds true in Switzerland as well.

It looks like Brady has a tough lawyer and some devoted costumers. Presently, there are apparently more than two hundred "investors". At $20,000 each, minimum, that's nearly $4,000,000 Euros.

Oops, looks like Mike Brady's Perendev was a scam after all. How disappointing!

Just goes to show, when something as simple as a 'walk round' video is promised and not delivered after more than a year, better keep your money in your pocket

edit to fix link but can't get the smileys to disable

[edit on 9-11-2007 by RogerT]

reply posted on 9-11-2007 @ 07:09 PM by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by NRen2k5

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
The Potomac Energy Project

Nice enough site. Nothing to do with free energy, though.

??

It has a LOT to do with free energy! Although, again, "free energy" is not the best term. These devices will hardly be "free" when they finally come out en masse. "Overunity" is a better term.

Wang Shum Ho Electricity Generator

Won’t work. Nothing new, either.

How would you know? Have you tried one? Do you know anyone that has?

The First Advanced Energy Technology Colloquium, August 20 2007

Like your first link. Nice, I guess. But not a demonstration of free energy.

No, but I think the fact that here we finally have a group of "free energy" inventors protected under a strategic umbrella, and receiving millions in funding, is quite significant, and a historical first.

This seems to be a constant with perpetual motion fanatics. They will point at anything they don’t understand and tell you it’s perpetual motion.…

No, again, "perpetual motion machine" refers to a CLOSED system that receives NO energy from outside sources.

These alleged overunity systems are OPEN systems, they receive their energy from the quantum flux or the Earth's natural magnetic field, things like that. They are NOT classed as "perpetual motion machines".

reply posted on 12-11-2007 @ 03:18 PM by plumranch

Perendev email

They may be taking customer money without delivering. But they responded to an email I sent them asking some questions. The hyperlink didn't copy so I will paraphrase: (their English isn't the best)
1) Do you anticipate producing a smaller size say in the 10KW range? No, due to the fact that they would be cost the same. Maybe some neighbors can share to energy produced by one machine?

2)Do the magnets wear down? If not why? No they do not due to the fact that this industrial ones are much better now than years ago.

3) How often do the units need servicing? 2 times a year but costs are included in the price.

They add that they are currently just "selling" in Europe! (Whatever is happening is just going on in Europe now!)

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 11:32 AM by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

I think when you refer to the 'vacuum', you mean the 'Zero point'. An endless vacuum of universal static. The germans experimented using rotating magnetic fields and super conductors, creating rotating vortexes of EM radiation.

The EM fields create a bubble in which space-time slows and comes together and in turn the 'static' energy that fires in and out of 'existence' in our world is slowed and compressed to a 'harnassable' energy form. It isn't just created right there, it is drawn via a ZPE.

thats how I see it anyway.

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