It's an interesting point you make Sauras. And if we add Gerald Bull in as well and the many years of combat experience the SDF has, they would be no push over in a conventional land based campaign.

I fully accept they have or had some of the leading bioweapons developers, but did South African govermnents put these weapons in their armoury or just develop for other countries and get hard currency in return.

I suspect the vast majority of the weapons development was done during White rule of South Africa, and they would have exploited any opportunity to earn hard currency. There is even talk that South Africa and Israel worked together on a nuclear weapon.

There are, in my mind, two questions.

1) Do the SDF have any bio or nuclear weapons in their armoury?

2) If push came to shove, would they use?

General Sir John Hackett's "The Untold Story" about World War 3 does have a chapter on operations in Southern Africa.

How involved South Africa might be in a third world war, is just as interesting, and I can not see WW3 starting in or as result of anything South Africa might do. South Africa, because of it importance as base for Naval operations and its resources would become a vital area as WW3 progresses.

I did mention South Africa being neutral in my last post. Now I come to think about it more, I see this as very unlikely as both sides in WW3 would want South Africa as a base for operations and to ensure the resources the country has to offer are available.

I could see as WW3 moves on, South Africa becoming a target for both sides once access to oil has been secured, so South Africa would I fear have to pick a side.

Starting this thread, the OP mentioned that South Africa was a small/weak country. That depends on the threater. In Southern Africa, RSA is a major, if not the dominant country because of its size, resources and it military. Even in the whole of Africa, RSA is still an important player.

Globally, I do not think that South Africa is weak. There are vast resources that the rest of the world needs from South Africa which gives it a differant kind of power to that of the US, which can project its power by shows of force.

On the question of Iran, South Africa has a public face, and would want to keep one of its customers happy, but in private, I suspect it is facing huge pressure from the US, UK, and UN Atomic Weapons inspectors to reveal the extent of any deals with Iran. Again, the economic power that the US can leverage is vast, and may work with the US and its allies in private for the greater good of all South Africans.

Well there is no succesfull nation in africa, the best off so far is south africa, but guess what, south africa was built by white people, what does that tell you, the entire african region available for building, and nothing is done, us whites find a good spot, we build, me make a great thriving nation, and then what, the blacks take it over and ruin it, they just aren't capable of building/running a city, they belong in their mud huts herding cattle, so call me racist, but this puts the truth out there, as he said, name one successful african nation that was built by blacks ??



As for your question - i cant speak for the daily lives of others, but i can for myself...

Every day i go to work, it's looking left and right feeling uneasy at stop streets and robots, wondering if today is the day im going to get hijacked and shot for my car, we have so many blacks begging at robots it's starting to get crazy, not one robot you stop at you will not be asked for money,,and if you say no you get sworn at, especially sworn at in their own language, and they show u a gun sign like their going to shoot you, or call you a white boer, even the slicing motion across their throat,,,

walking down the street, especially in the city ( cape town ) you get murderous looks, they comment behind your back ( always racist remarks )

but ive noticed us whites are so scared they have learnt to block all this out, like it's not a reality, the reality is us whites are being murdered in astonishing numbers here in south africa, they call it the night of the long knifes, or uhuri, search for it on abovetopsecret you will find everything about the genocide of the white people in south africa...


I am lucky to even have a job, i work at a large company here, and i am the only white person in my department, they are all blacks, muslims and colourds, the only white guy of about 50, i can thank god i even HAVE a job, i struggled my ass off to get it, and struggling harder to keep it because i am white...

I am desperate to leave this country

I am a new member of ATS and was perusing topics when i came across this discussion which horrifies me so much that i created an account to put forth a message to everyone!

These words are no more than a collection of personal thoughts to take or leave as you wish.

You speak of WW3 as if it was a game, do you not realise that World War is exactly what is says, World - as in everyone. You will not understand the true consequences until you see them on your own streets, or in your own family - when the horror is right there in front of your own eyes - NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOUR ON!

You argue with politicians words, not your own. Does anyone - ANYONE at all wish to see Nuclear War? That is what it would be ladies and gentlemen - countries and cities and civilisations wiped out by the push of a button. There will be no fighting with men and guns until the dust settles and whatever is left of the World is brought to its knees! In war there is no winner - just heartache.

My message to the World is not to divide and fall but to unite as a SPECIES, everyone has to do their best for the World and each other! The sooner everyone stops fighting over race, religion or whatever else people deem worthy of murder, the sooner we can find peace. Afterall DEEP DOWN isnt that what everyone wants? Do not leave your lives and the lives of your children in other peoples hands for a war that should never be!

Confucius once said:"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest"

Thank you for your time. The Watchers.

---The Watchers--- unfortunately we now live in the reality of world war 3, to me it seems inevitable, i mean people just dont get along there aren't enough resources to go around, you have greedy politicians and power hungry war mongers, i am not going to deny the fact or live in some fantasy world where i believe everything is a o k and ww3 wont happen, because it will, it's just a matter of time, so why not talk about it ? most of all, PEOPLE JUST DONT GET ALONG......


KrOnOs, have you ever checked up on your immigration laws over there ? if you want a greencard you have to be either some amazing musician, or highly skilled worker, or sports star, I am none of those, ive been studying for a long time, i have a good job i earn ok money, but it's not good enough to get a greencard for, yes i can go over there, but chances of me being able to stay there after my student/study temp work visa runs out i will have to come back here,,, or i can do what the mexicans do and stay there as an illegal immigrant...


But like i said, i wish your country would open your military to foreigners, selected foreigners of course, not just anyone, and have them serve 2 - 4 years in the military in return for citizenship, i'd be the first one to enlist..

Originally posted by LovingSoul
I don't see what the problem is. We (SA) are a strong nation - just look at the unity of the people after winning the RWC!

You had to go and mention that didn't you!
I'm a New Zealander and have recently seen an article saying that the referee was told by the touch judges that the pass was forward, but he dismissed it....oh well, life goes on, for the meanwhile!

On topic: I'm not sure what will happen, but I guess you must look at prevailing winds and such, regarding radioactive fallout (i.e: in NZ we are subject to a prevailing Westerly so fallout in Oz would reach us, much like the effects of forest fires in Oz that discoloured our sky and such).
Sit back and watch the action.
Read 'Ape and Essence' by Alduous Huxley. Go the New Zealand Expeditionary Force!

If a WWIII conflageration began, S.A. would probably be out of the fray...

but remain a prime target for round two, if Russia or elements of the former USSR, which still possess submarine launched nukes , readily reprogrammed for new targets such as S.A. decides that youse guys are
a threat & mus be nuked.

but i realistically see S.A. being 'safe', and determined to reacquire their nuclear arsenal (which they voluntarily gave up)....and they could do it in 3-4 years, Tops! (on a crash program of self defense)







[~~~]

Originally posted by sethdarke
[...]
yes i can go over there, but chances of me being able to stay there after my student/study temp work visa runs out i will have to come back here,,, or i can do what the mexicans do and stay there as an illegal immigrant...

U2U me, i presently have available, 2 bed 2 bath upstairs of this townhouse, if you get a work visa---and you are alone,
i can't/won't extend the offer to a 'family' situation, only individuals...
and during your visa period...you should be able to network resources
and strategize a pathway toward permanent residency/dual citizenship

I sure hope we don't have a WWIII

[edit on 31-10-2007 by hero_25]

Realistically, I think SA will fall into a non-aligned department. This being said, I do not believe they will align with russia & china & middle east. Nor do I think they will align with U.S., Britian, Canada, OZ, Nato. I see them staying neutral and basically playing both sides. Being a free port to replenish supplies for Navies, Dictating that any navy vessel entering its waters does so as a non combatant, and therefore can not fire upon enemies. Additionally, I think they will sell any resources they can to both sides.


With the above being said, Once Europe, Asia, and North America, and OZ is gone, S.A. will have one of the few remaining strong armies in the world. This being said, I see there economy collapsing, bring about a "black" Nazi movement, basically blaming all whites and muslims for there WOW's. I see this movement doing to whites, what germany did to the Jews.

This in turn will cause world disgust and the remnants of U.S. as well as Britian will probably launch attacks to force them to halt what they are doing. Eventually since all the nuclear hits around the world, they launch a couple at s.a. This destroying the larger cities, and basically ending the nazi like regime. The problem is, the blacks hate the whites more then the KKK hated the blacks in the U.S., or the nazi hated the Jews. Its deep seated, so although a more liberal government will come to power after the chaos, tribal infrasture will hold more sway, and the whites, and possibly other minorities will continue to be slaughtered.

Places that I think will be safe from fall out:

West Africa, South central africa( not close to South africa), this being said, if your in this area, I suggest you be black. Tribal society is VERY strong throughout africa, and being a refugee, outsider will be ruff, not being black can kill you.

Other areas I would consider safe would be Peru, Argintina, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, and the southern part of brazil. I think Venezuela will get hit, and winds and rain will poison most of the amazon basin that surrounds its.

For Asia, South Asia should be alright, such as vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore.

My thoughts, Racism is a realilty. We as people live with it everyday. Some tolerate other races better then others, but regardless, its always there. I would not want to be a white person in africa, after WW3, Nor would I want to be a White man in Asia.

I think South America would be your best bet, This being said, I think any place thats left after the Bombs stop, and the majority of the poison has settled, will probably be pretty stringent on immigration. In other words, if your not a citizen there before it all starts, you won't be after.

The economy of the world will have completely collapsed. As a result there will be no inclination to all refugees into there nations, unless they can bring something of value. Such as being able to fix infrastructure, be a dang genius, etc. They will not let average joe in, and they won't let formerly wealthy joe in either. Only people with trade skills. Especially stuff in salvage.

As far as the nuked areas go, any city bigger then 100k you can pretty much say goodbye too. This leaves basically a chicken pox effect throughout the destroyed areas. The areas not directly hit will have to fight off lawlessness, as well as militias from other towns looking for food, etc. Eventually new governments will form. They governments will be built towards healing the environments, clenaing up the pollutions, and rebuilding.

These are my thoughts anyway.

Cheers,

Camain

Originally posted by sethdarke
My chances for survival in the military ( serving in iraq ) is much better than that of a white person living in south africa...

Oh no...racism is latent but seething...I know quite a lot of 'white' south africans and most of them have no problem with the native indigenous population....friends travel there, no real worries...yet the racism is striking...

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

Why dont you do something about the Rape and Murders of the white farmers and their families first, then preach about my country..

Wow, I thought it was originally the "White farmers and their families" that did all the rape and torture. Check your facts

SA inst current day Zimbabwe. SA's population is still 10% whites.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

You dont have to tell me, I already know. There was another country in Africa that was built and ruled by the British whites right? Was it Zimbabwe or Rhodesia??
Which ever it was, it has also been completely ruined since being turned over to the African blacks.

Same place, Zimbabwe use to be know as Rhodesia.

BTW, When the blacks gained independence from the UK again and took over 'Zimbabwe', Robert Mugabe was a great president!.
Zimbabwe was the richest country in Africa under his rule also. Then he had an idea... Get rid of the Whites (Bye bye Money).
Now look at Zimbabwe. No doubt he will be assassinated