Anti-semitism from the "birdman"

Dedicated to the millions of Holocaust victims who suffered and died at the hands of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime


Given the evidence ... why do people deny the Holocaust? Shofar FTP Archives
The Camps � Organizations
International Military Tribunal
People � Places


The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group, which boasts:
"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."

(extremist group: The National Socialist White People's Party)

www.nizkor.org...

And then, of course, there's this fun site:
www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com...

Hey lurkers! After browsing through alt.revisionism posts for awhile, you may already have figured out how to become a Holocaust revisionist. It's easy. For those of you considering such a move, be assured that it requires no preparation or scholarly research. Simply follow the guidelines below, as the revisionists on this newsgroup have done, and you'll quickly be on the road to deluding yourself that someone out there takes you seriously, and that you are valiantly fighting the evil forces of some undefined, implausible conspiracy.
[//quote]

9. Kafka Was Here -- Argue that the gas chambers never existed because there are no photos or drawings of them. When you are presented with photos and drawings, state that they could not possibly be actual photos/drawings of gas chambers because the gas chambers never existed because there are no photos/drawings of them because they never existed because . . .

Halocost never happened

and yet...That comment also deserves a :shk:

Originally posted by REVELATOR
I've heard it said that in war the victors write the history. It's why WW2 historians who don't accept the Orthodox Holoco$t Version are denigrated as "revisionists". There is no list of 6 million dead Jews. Germany did not even have available the amount of petrol required to cremate even 1 million corpses weighing 100 pounds each.

You just miss the point that there are some people left who have actually been in Germany during the WW2 and know what really happened.

But I guess my ancestors lied to me for fun because they were paid by Jews? And one of my grandfathers kept 2 jews hidden just for fun.

What a weired mind some people got.


Colonel: You need some therapy, I would say anger-management. And, you can't blame TS on quoting some totally stupid opinion from that looser - it was funny and we all learned that we share the same opinion about that topic. Your overall reaction was totally out of range, you seem to be frustrated because of racists, which I can understand but you shouldn't try to name everyone a racist to compensate that anger.

The old "cultural bias" excuse for the realities revealed by the Bell Curve research was blown old of the water ten years ago. The fact remains, nobody, nowhere at no time has ever created any type of intelligence evaluating test that Sub-Sarharan Negroes outperform Euro or Asian derived peoples.
Race will always be the ultimate reality. For the poster who said we are all the same once you strip of the skin, race is more than superficial.
Physical anthropoplogists can determine race from a glance at a skeletal remains. And on autopsy, the European cerebrum is instantly identifiable by the presence of more highly convoluted frontal lobes, the region where the capabilty for abstract thought that distinguishes us from animals originates.
Pharmaceutical science realizes that certain races don't repond to certain drugs. I guess the drugs are racist. Genetic research will soon be capable of broadly classifying populations into haplotypes, determined by heriditary genes that will aid in the prevention and treatment of a myriad of disease conditions. God forbid more money should be poured into the reasearch of the 67% of Americans of the dominant genetic haplotypes, i.e. "whiteys".

Originally posted by glee

2. The ability of IQ tests used in our schools to predict academic success is pretty good. But there are many problems with IQ tests. For one thing, they were originally culturally biased, and some remain so. Questions in the original tests were sometimes based on experiences confined to the middle or upper class.
The question of intelligence is much more complex than people realize.

After much research, discussion with relatives of survivors and critical thinking I've personally concluded:
the Orthodox Holoco$t Version is an exageration of wartime events which in the years after WW2 was and is increasingly been used to fleece Germany to finance the creation and security of the Zionist state in Palestine.

One day in a less totalitarian political climate students of this period will learn the truth regarding the number of Jewish dead.

From 1938-1945 and including disease, old age and outright murder, the number of Jews that died in the countries controlled or occupied by the IIIrd Reich was about 450,000.

Originally posted by shoo

You just miss the point that there are some people left who have actually been in Germany during the WW2 and know what really happened.

But I guess my ancestors lied to me for fun because they were paid by Jews?

And one of my grandfathers kept 2 jews hidden just for fun.

Revelator, what the hell rock did you crawl out from under?

It really takes a lot of balls to claim that a historical event that cost MILLIONS of families their loved ones didn't happen. That the death camps were what... hotels jazzed up to look bad to fake the holocaust?

You (in your special uneducated way) have decided that the fact that the Germans didn't have a list of all 6 million victims means that it didn't happen. Well, why don't you sit back and let someone who knows tell you. When the Nazi SS went around to people's homes and put them onto cattle cars to bring them to these camps, they took their belongings. Their clothes, passports, and any other possessions they had. Why? Because that is how you break someone. Because by removing a person's individuality and name you break their will. There were no names in the death camp. There was just green numbers tattooed onto people. You'd know this if you knew how to read. You expect a list? The Nazis didn't give a #. They had no interest in keeping records, idiot. If you were Jewish your ass was on a train to Auschwitz, or Treblinka, or Bergen-Belsen or a whole # load of other "made up places" as you'd put them.

Your other argument ranks with the absolute stupidest things I have ever heard on this board or anywhere else. They didn't have enough petrol to cremate people? Hey genius! First off you OOPS forgot that there were loads of people in mass graves who were shot and tossed into pits. Secondly, I guess you don't know the fundamentals of fire, or of how a body would be burned under such conditions where people were thrown into a fire that was ALWAYS burning. Smoke did not stop coming out of the smokestacks because the fire was always on.

Let me welcome you to ATS, because I see from your profile that you just registered today. Let me inform you that this is not a place that will stand idly by and watch you spew incorrect stupidity with no consequence. I will read, consider, and annihilate every hateful post you make as long as you remain here. Is it because I hate you? No. It's because I hate ignorance and you demonstrate nothing but that. Do yourself a favor, see the coatroom on the side? Drop the hood off there because no one here is going to tolerate that #.

Welcome.

Originally posted by REVELATOR
After much research, discussion with relatives of survivors and critical thinking I've personally concluded:
the Orthodox HolocoSt Version is an exageration of wartime events which in the years after WW2 was and is increasingly been used to fleece Germany to finance the creation and security of the Zionist state in Palestine.

One day in a less totalitarian political climate students of this period will learn the truth regarding the number of Jewish dead.

From 1938-1945 and including disease, old age and outright murder, the number of Jews that died in the countries controlled or occupied by the IIIrd Reich was about 450,000.

Care to...Oh, I dunno, provide some evidence or something? Or are we supposed to follow what you say with blind faith because you've made such a sound arguement so far?

EDIT: Thanks for pointing out the mi$spelling, Djarums.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by junglejake]

Double clicked

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by junglejake]

Since I'm still in a welcoming mood I feel that I should, in a friendly way, suggest that you not ever refer to the event as "Holoco$t" again.

ihr.org...

And since I'm only interested in reality and facts, I'd suggest you stop using capitals when refering to the event that appears to me to be an extortion racket. When you refer to it as "The Holocost" it tends to deify something that was horrible no matter how you slice it. I'll agree to stop using Holoco$t, but only on this forum, if you'll stop using caps.

Originally posted by Djarums
Since I'm still in a welcoming mood I feel that I should, in a friendly way, suggest that you not ever refer to the event as "Holoco$t" again.

Originally posted by REVELATOR
And since I'm only interested in reality and facts, I'd suggest you stop using capitals when refering to the event that appears to me to be an extortion racket. When you refer to it as "The Holocost" it tends to deify something that was horrible no matter how you slice it. I'll agree to stop using Holoco$t, but only on this forum, if you'll stop using caps.

Well, the Holocaust, fictional or no, is an event. The English language requires proper nouns to be capitalized. An event is a proper noun. Therefore, we would make ourselves look like idiots is we refused to capitalize a proper noun because a few revisionists decided it never happened.

As for only being interested in reality and facts, would you care to provide factual responses to some of the points made on the websites I posted before? By your own hand, by the way, not by quoting some anti-semetic website. You've formed an opinion based only in reality and facts, now defend it.

I'll let you begin by allowing you to define the facts that are up for debate.
For instance, if you say, "prove to me 6 million didn't die", and I'll say "what do you base your belief in the accuracy of this number on?"
and we'll be off and running.
I'll be back tomorrow looking for you're bones of contention.

As far as labeling revisionism as anti-semitism, it is logically possible that some truths are anti-semitic, agreed?

Originally posted by REVELATOR
I'll let you begin by allowing you to define the facts that are up for debate.
For instance, if you say, "prove to me 6 million didn't die", and I'll say "what do you base your belief in the accuracy of this number on?"
and we'll be off and running.
I'll be back tomorrow looking for you're bones of contention.

As far as labeling revisionism as anti-semitism, it is logically possible that some truths are anti-semitic, agreed?

I actually agree with your last statement.

Facts: 1: a : something that has actual existence b : an actual occurrence
2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality
- in fact : in truth

Hopefully it won't enter into the circular arguement you stated above, but this is also way off topic. I recomend you start a new thread and state why you don't think the Holocaust happened. I'm sure there will be a lot more participation, both nay and aye sayers, if you do it that way.

Holocaust denial is the claim that the Holocaust�the genocide committed against millions of people by Nazi Germany during World War II�either did not occur, was not nearly as great in magnitude as mainstream historians claim, was not purposely and centrally organized by the Nazi government, or did not particularly target Jews.

Holocaust denial is a criminal offense in Israel, France, Germany and Austria, punishable by fines and jail sentences.

Much of the controversy surrounding the claims of Holocaust deniers centers upon the methods used to present arguments that the Holocaust allegedly never happened. Numerous accounts have been given (including evidence presented in court cases) of claimed "facts" and "evidence;" however, independent research has shown these claims to be based upon flawed research, biased statements, and even deliberately falisified evidence. Opponents of Holocaust denial have compiled detailed, numerous accounts instances where this evidence has been altered or manufactured (see below, also see Nizkor Project and David Irving). Evidence presented by Holocaust deniers has also failed to stand up to scrutiny in courts (see Fred A. Leuchter) of law, further questioning its veracity.

en.wikipedia.org...

Evidence of the existence of the Holocaust was well documented by the German government itself. It was further well documented by the Allied forces who entered Germany and its associated Axis states towards the end of World War II. Among the evidence produced was film and stills of the existence of prisoner camps, as well as the testimony of those freed when the camps were entered.

After their defeat, many tons of documents were recovered, and many thousands of bodies were found not yet completely decomposed, in mass graves near many concentration camps. The physical evidence and the documentary proof included records of train shipments of Jews to the camps, orders for tons of cyanide and other poisons, and the remaining concentration camp structures. Interviews with survivors completed the picture.

As a result of the records produced, all mainstream historians agree that Holocaust denial is contrary to the facts of history.

All in all, I think your claim of denial is pretty light considering there has never been any evidence to support it. You have stated that you will face a question with a turn-around question of your own, but I suggest that something tangible, plausible, and or factual might be better regarding this matter.

[Edited on 6-5-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

WOW!!! Zedd,
That was the most concise well organized argument I have read in some time.

Thank You!

Revelator, the sad reality of the fact is that people like you will not ever believe the Holocaust happened. It would not matter if I could travel back in time and bring a videocamera with me and play it back for you. You would call me a conspirator with the Jews. There are countless survivors, who are still alive, who's memories and experiences people like you # upon.

You can refer to my above answer for why the "documentation" you want to see does not exist. As a general rule murderers don't usually keep, or even care to keep records of what they have committed.

Let me be kind to you and make an assumption. Maybe the reason you don't believe the Holocaust happened is because you don't want to believe that humankind is capable of such a disgusting things.

Unfortunately there is more proof than I can fit into a stadium even. The camps, the crematoria, the possessions that were stolen and the microscopic portion of those possessions that are being returned. The bodies that were found, and the tiniest remnants that were once bodies.

I would like to make a suggestion to you, in your infinite wisdom. Instead of basing your view solely on what you have "researched" (used very liberally) why don't you speak, in person with some people who "claim" to have been put through hell in those camps. Why not show that you have a spine and talk to some of those people yourself. People like my grandmother who was one of 7 brothers and sisters (3 of whom were alive after 1945). See, when you talk to people like her who had to stand in a huge group, and be divided into two lines (those who could work, and those who couldn't) and watch in horror as her parents were sent into the other line... the one that led to a building with smokestacks... and watch a giggling guard telling her in German (which to this day she refuses to speak) "That's going to be your parents soon." And she can tell you how she was hit in the head by a guard for walking down her line too slowly, and that because she feared being sent to the death line for being injured she held the gash in her head so tight that she has lived with a neurological condition ever since.

Her story is nothing special. Isn't that sad? You'd think a story like that is the most horrible thing in the world, but you could talk to thousands of still-living survivors and hear similar ones. Yet you believe they're all made up. You haven't spoken to these people.

If you have any form of dedication towards what you believe you would take the initiative to speak to some of these people. And after the experience, I can assure you you will never be the same again.

That's the difference between firsthand and bull# internet stories. You aren't the same after you hear a fellow human being relive the most god awful thing they ever encountered.

Revisionists are a sad bunch devoid of morality and caring. All that matters to them is that there are no hard records of everything that went on. Too bad. It must be a shame to lead such an empty existence. Take my advice, talk to some of the people who's lives you say are a sham. You'll be glad you did.

The figure of 6 million was first mentioned in the Soviet trials NOT in the Auschwitz 1 trial. During that trial the prosecution(excluding the USSR) stated that a total of 1 million was executed--this includes poles, gypsies, russians--not just jews. I cannot deny that a "holocaust" did occur but I object to the crass way that the jews lay claim to the title of victim, they were not the only people to die. If the present time is any indication then I must conclude that the jews learned alot about hospitality--look at how they treat the people of palestine. And I agree that enough is enough, havent the jews bilked more than their fair share out of germany???

thanks for reactivating this thread for that bit of wisdom. i'm sure that was something that had been eating at you for a while.

It is obvious the holocaust happened, though the original numbers were horribly inaccurate. It is now emerging most of the deaths were due to Typhoid and starvation, whilst not acceptable in any respect, this is a far cry from gas chambers and ovens. There is no doubt a few million people died by the hands of the Axis governments loyal to the Nazi regime, one must take into effect the role of the Allies totally destroying the German supply lines. If you had a choice in wartime would you feed and equip your soldiers or your prisoners?

Though this happened a long time ago and the jews weren't even 7% of the casualties of WWII. There is no question that few million dissedents died in direct correlation to Axis forces. With this being said, I am not endorsing what the Nazis did, I just don't care. It is history, German and Europe itself has apologized, paid reperations. If people want to deny the holocaust didn't happen or didn't happen the way some might like to present it did, then who cares? Communist regimes have killed an estimated 100 million people around the world in the past 100 years, yet popular leaders adorn tshirts all over the place. One also has to wonder why Stalin is not denounced for his own genocide of over 35 million confirmed victims. Many Jews today view communists as heros, yet Stalin killed more jews then anybody, without a doubt.

If holocaust deniers are suppressed in their views, it seems there is something that is being hidden from history. When governments try to control what is being thought by individuals, well then they are just subscribing to the Nazi/Communist ideal: Thought Police, and total control over a populace. Imprisonment for believing something is unjust, don't the jews realize this?

By trying to control these so called holocaust deniers beliefs, they themselves are subscribing to Nazism. Irony in it's most sickening form.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by N_15L_S01]