Originally posted by Cythraul



I think on this point we are actually speaking the same language. Notice how I said that this materialism is nurtured mostly by the people, i.e. MacDonalds and Tommy Hilfiger can make themselves present anywhere in the world, but materialism requires that the people voluntarily welcome those brands and symbols of capitalism.

Very true and I agree with you. However, the problem I have is when people spew anti-American vitriol-not implying yourself-towards the United States because of its culture or exports. The McDonalds (not Mac, don't want the Scots getting ticked at us as well ) example is a glaring one, there are items on the UK menu-and other countries for that matter-that do not appear on US menus. Why? Guess there was not enough of a local flavor to them. So not only did they 'accept' this piece of Americana but adapted and modified it for themselves. Perhaps part of the anti-American sentiment is a mis-placed resentment of anti-consumerism. If they do not like this then let the law of supply and demand dictate their decisions.

Double post, please delete

[edit on 29-10-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

NEFEMORE, sorry to burst your bubble but the US did not save Europe in WW2 and your armed forces are not the best in the World, one only has to look at past and present military excursions to see that, being simply big does not make a great nation and to date you have not kicked anyones butt have you.

The reasons why so many see America as the Great Satan is because of its Foreign Policy and the indiffernce of the American public to the suffering it inflicts on nations around the World.

Why are we so hated by many muslim governments?

I dont think we are hated persay as a people.

I think the main reason radical islam hates America is becasue of what we stand for. Freedom? not nessesarily, but what freedom brings. I.E. Womens rights, Equal rights for all citizens and just a plethura of rights radical islam says are evils against allah.

Its fear of the unknown IMO. I feel its more about radical islam keeping its people under the boot and slaves basically to the ruling class. If America brings its freedoms to the middle east then the mullas and radical fundamentalist would lose thier power over the populace. The People would get a taste of the freedom to choose for themselves whats good and bad, and prob fight for it once they have had it for a time.

I think this is the fight now going on in IRAQ. Bin laden , IRAN and other radical forms of islamic government see American freedoms as a threat to thier continued power. if thier people embrace freedom fully then they will be no longer be in control of the populations. This is why they fight us so hard IMO. And becasue IRAQ was under the boot of Saddam for so long its going to take years for IRAQ to fully intergrate freedom in thier society.

my 2

I think we're equally hated and loved.

I also think we are hated because some of us are arrogrant and it rubs off in the wrong way. Also, I think some people get jealous of the fact that they feel that our lives are more important then theirs because we are Americans, but it's not our fault that some gov. don't care as much about their own people.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
...sorry to burst your bubble but the US did not save Europe in WW2

Although the word 'saved' might be too strong for some you can not discount the contribution and sacrifice the American people made during the Second World War. Our determination in that effort most assuredly helped the people of Europe restore freedom to their own countries. I do feel however that we as Americans should not be rubbing anyone's nose in that fact. It must be a very difficult situation to be immersed in (being beset or overun by Nazi Germany) and not have to be reminded out it at every turn. Nor is it helpful to point this fact out whenever someone of a European country begs to disagree with an American's opinion.

and your armed forces are not the best in the World

Maybe we can not build a television, construct a car or produce steel as we once did-and I would even dispute some of these claims- but I do not think many people would argue the capability of the United States armed forces.

one only has to look at past and present military excursions to see that, being simply big does not make a great nation

Very true, just as the former Soviet Union, largest nation on Earth, proved. A great nation is only a sum of its citizens and I do feel the majority of us are conscientious of our place in the world and its history.

and to date you have not kicked anyones butt have you.

I can not speak for other Americans but I myself do not judge my opinion of my fellow citizens by our ability to 'kick butt'. I reserve my judgement for our capacity to capture the spirit of endeavour, brotherhood and liberty that, what I feel, our country represents.

It is difficult to respond to this topic without resorting to cliches. That is why I normally stay away from tabloid topics!

Like any complex subject the devil is in the details (cliche).

I am an American (someone open a window!).

Things that I love about America and suspect that foreigners do as well:

-A meritocracy

-Diversity

-Optimism and opportunity

-A functional middle class

-Jazz, blues, r&b, rock etc and media

Where I live I can honestly say that most of the world cultures are represented!

The great experiment continues I hope we suceed!


Things I don't like:

-Nothing.... We're Number One! USA, USA, USA!!

-Creeping Corporatism/Fascism

-Materialism

-Sticking our noses is everyone's business. I would love to go back to the days of isolation from the world. I hope we do!

-Military Spending

No one has mentioned class directly but one of the more attractive aspects of life in the US is the opportunity to rise out of one's background.
I know the more mature a culture becomes the more class systems become rigid and oppressive. In regards to that middle class how about labor and unions...love to hear some different perspectives.

I mean doesn't it give you hope you can suceed if Donald Trump is a bigshot in America!

Don't forget we are you...the US is made up of your cultures for better or worse.

Why do humans continue to hate because of the sins of our fathers?
Hatred and love are both such seductive and intoxicating emotions.
It is satisfying to point the finger of moral superiority.
I would say the main reason we are so hated is because we align ourselves politically with Israel, a country somewhat smaller than New Jersey, population somewhere around seven million.
For some UNGODLY reason most of their neighbors wish they weren't there.

Augustus, Many of us Europeans appreciate the help and sacrifice made by the countless millions who came to our aid during ww2 and it will never be forgotten.

The problem for America at the moment as I have stated previously that it is being set up for a fall and it has been used and abused by those who control the show. Like clever illusionists they offer up the American people as the sacrificial lamb whilst it is they who are to blame for the evil deeds.

Let me let you all on in a little secret. Americans are no more or less materialistic than other societies. Why is it any more "materialistic" to work all day at the office and spend money on (for example) televisions than working all day in a farm and eating what you have grown. Americans just make more.

At the end of the day people work long hours and then use what they have earned to stave off their dreary existences with simple diversions. There was never a time when people lived in a perfect spiritual communion with nature and God. That is simply ignorant nostalgia. When one reads German newspapers from the 1870s (as I have to for my job) what you read is that people are upset that modern life is too fast, industrialization is ruining traditional lifeways, and in the past people were more spiritual and had better morals. The only difference was that then they blamed it on bourgeois democracy and cast the blame on the French and British. Instead of criticising American companies like McDonalds, they blamed British Companies like the Wood Harvesting Company.

Same song, different tune.

People blame their anxieties about modernity on the most preeminent player on the world stage. The Greeks accussed the Romans of the same thing. In one hundered years, China will be asking "why does everyone hate us?" People will respond, "Because you are materialistic, industrialistic, capitalists. You throw your weight around on the world stage. Unlike the Americans you never aren't creating any true culture like Jazz/WoodyAllen/etc."

I would agree with you that America did not "save" Europe from the Nazis.

Of course that is not what Marshal Zhukov would have said. He was quite explicit, and claimed the USSR would have fallen in 1943 without Lend-Lease. By 1944 the US produced 60% of the munitions used by the Allies and outproduced Germany and Japan combined. It goes without saying that were the USSR to have fallen in 1943, then Germany would have been able to solidify its position in Europe. Perhaps the US and GB could have defended the British Isles, but a D-Day to save Europe would have most certainly been off the table.

But like I said, I guess we both agree that the supreme commander of Soviet forces was wrong.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SimiusDei
I doubt that jealousy and ignorance are the "major" reasons for the anti-Americanism

Believe what you want. I am SURE that they are the ONLY reasons.

I wish we'd cut off all foreign aid. I wish we'd cut off all our foreign trade.
Let the world TRY to get along without us. (they wouldn't get far)
Let 'em wallow in their own muck and ignorance for a good long time.

OUT.

See that quote? Americans saying and believing crap like that is why the world hates America.

It has nothing to do with war.
America has earned the stupidity badge and intolerance badge as some people would say.
American schools are very underestimated by other countries due to the fact that all the kids do is sit there and listen or not. A major defect in the US, believe it or not, is the use of calculators in school for things such as multiplication and the basics. Maybe they're not underestimating, maybe it's the truth. Foreigners think that Americans only have humor, ADHD, and nothing else.
The amount of racism in this country is also very wide spread and serious. THe only people who usually do not get remarks thrown at are caucasians. You may say that blacks are racist against whites too which is true, but less common compared to asians and other colored people.
So, what do you think the kids or adults will do once they are mocked by someone of another race or nationality?
Lecture what they've experienced of course, many immigrants or 1.5 and 2nd generations usually travel back home and tell everyone they know about life in America. That's the way it is, other countries are either defending their immigrants or criticizing the intelligence of Americans.
Other non Americans also use the internet to learn about Americans.
Example:
# The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (The New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).

# The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

# One-third of our science teachers and one-half of our math teachers did not major in those subjects. (Quoted on "The West Wing," but you can trust it -- their researchers are legendary.)

# Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the Earth. Seventeen percent believe the Earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

# "The International Adult Literacy Survey ... found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).

# Our workers are so ignorant, and lack so many basic skills, that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

Originally posted by XBadger
I would agree with you that America did not "save" Europe from the Nazis.

Of course that is not what Marshal Zhukov would have said. He was quite explicit, and claimed the USSR would have fallen in 1943 without Lend-Lease. By 1944 the US produced 60% of the munitions used by the Allies and outproduced Germany and Japan combined. It goes without saying that were the USSR to have fallen in 1943, then Germany would have been able to solidify its position in Europe. Perhaps the US and GB could have defended the British Isles, but a D-Day to save Europe would have most certainly been off the table.

But like I said, I guess we both agree that the supreme commander of Soviet forces was wrong.

To produce munitions it helps to have an ocean between you and your enemy but I don't think the ocean is American.

D Day would have been off until the Atomic bomb was released on the Reich. Where were all those scientists from that came up with that bomb? Oh yeah Europe.