What crashed at Roswell? Please explain your answer.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
People were seeing UFO's in their cereal bowls every morning that year for crying out loud.....

No UFO's in cereal bowls here...but I did find an alien in my coffee this morning....





Anyhoo..down to earth post Ignore...but truth is sometimes stranger than fiction!

UFO - unusually flavored object?

I remember the 50s and yes there was a lot of hysteria which wasn't helped by the flood of mostly bad alien/flying saucer movies. All we can be reasonably certain of is that something happened at Roswell. Maybe they told us the truth already, maybe we'll never never hear the truth. Maybe if we were told the absolute truth of it we wouldn't believe it anyway as it has grown to cult status now and nothing short of aliens will satisfy the mob.

I have personally seen a UFO but nothing about it really suggested aliens apart from it being impossible in terms of known human capabilities.

booyakasha ma guan

y0h check it,

them rushinz crashed them secret flying ships into new mexico when they was being chased n fired at while they was.... uhhh .. doing recon.

blip. so the president, him not want us people to be findin' out right, so him covered it up and says it was .. UFO crashing. worked so well that them is still milking dat cow in Roswell for tourist money to this day! big up to that.. *snaps fingers*

[edit on 10/28/2007 by runetang]

I’ll tell you what crashed……..an alien craft……..yep…..But how and why?

(My theory)

During the early 20th century, our tech in war machines began to improve quite substantially and planes had just began to seriously develop. All of a sudden humanity was up in the air traveling at speeds much greater than crapy air balloons, and so aliens realized we’d be developing rather quickly into the space age in a few hundred years, they began sending small groups of beings that resembled us in appearance to our planet to research and study our culture and tech improvements.

They started to get us ready for contact for the upcoming space race, during WW1-2, they withdrew their study groups so not to get involved. And also realized that at this point in there tech development we’d kill ourselves in mass wars over and over again until there’s nothing left on the planet. Many races squabbled over the right to claim earth for themselves as they new what would inevitably happen. Small fights broke out amongst the races that wonted to take control of earth. Some craft that got hit in the fights crashed on earth, during 1916-47, many craft had crashed on earth, about 50 or so, most landing in the ocean.

The most powerful governments at that time including America and Nazi Germany recovered these craft; Nazi Germany began using this new tech for war. America recovered their first few about a decade or two after Nazi Germany, (haven’t a clue what dates) America used this new tech to build the A-bomb, during the A-bomb tests the races realized that their tech had been reverse engineered and that we’d be in the space race much sooner than they at first thought. Roswell happened soon, the first public awareness of alien crashes.

In the 50’s some races stoped fighting, and contacted the government with the most threatening tech, which was America, they told the leaders that they’re not ready to be using such advanced tech, and asked to dismantle them, in return for world wide contact. The leaders refused, another race said they’d give tech for study in human biology, the leaders said yes.

The greys, the ones that made the deal, kept trading for many decades, even though there were problems in the deal as time went on. The race that asked for us to abandon the nuclear weapons went to ordinary people to get us to do what the government wouldn’t. Many people began talking about visits from aliens that look just like us, but just more beautiful, and sent them messages of love and piece and all that. As well as horrible abduction experiences with the greys.

Time passes, modern day, the races wont the wars to stop, and to build a relationship with the entire human race, they instruct the now modern leaders to get ready for eventual world wide contact, the governments are annoyed and scared of the publics reaction, they support film makers to crate alien movies with aliens taking over the earth, and for the public to get used to the idea of aliens.

Sometime in our not to distant future, 2012, 2020, 2050, what ev…..they make contact, regardless of whether or not the governments are ok with it. But only after the large scale wars are over, meaning leaders like Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong-il are either terminated, or told to give up and peacefully join the UN. As well as the wars in Africa. By the time all countries are at piece, the world will be a one-world government and free energy will be available, and so on and so on…contact is made……bla bla bblaa…..the human race has joined with the aliens….everyone’s happy.

The End.



youtube.com... 3 parts…….some of my theory came from here…..


[edit on 28-10-2007 by andre18]

I have no doubt it was an outhouse from the neighboring ranch. Three days earlier, on the fourth of July, little Billy Hampton dropped an M-80 down the hole and ducked for cover. What he didn't realize is that his mother had spent the day serving a holiday lunch to the ranch hands and everybody had enjoyed huge helpings of Mrs Hampton's famous bean burritos.

The outhouse landed six miles away on Mac Brazel's ranch and the resulting debris field spread over several acres. The "I" beams had been used to truss the roof and frame out the thunderbox, the cryptic symbols were a reader's digest word puzzle, and the rest is history..

" What Crashed At Roswell ? "


the outdated and outgrown National Psyche !
was shed like a snakeskin...

it now was possible and permissible for everyone
to become a lunatic, get their 15 minutes of fame and move on.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I think the initial reaction and headline was a product of mass hysteria, and yes, even people in the military are human and suffer from it. People were seeing UFO's in their cereal bowls every morning that year for crying out loud, the whole society had gone crazy enough to worry the goverment about UFO's.[...]

I am sure the guy who ordered the erroneous, and hysterical press release saw a UFO in his cereal bowl that morning too.

You either have no idea how the military works, or you're trying to dismiss things in order to fit your 'explanation'.

If you think that "one guy" is responsible for putting out the press release and telling the media and everyone about what the military had recovered, you are seriously deluded.

Some UP stories at the time attributed the press release to Col. Blanchard. (source)

And according to Walter Haut's affidavit, it was Col. Blanchard that ordered and dictated the press release (to Haut over the phone), after a meeting with Gen. Ramey who proposed a plan that Haut believed originated from Gen. Ramey's superiors at the Pentagon.

Regardless of how it really happened one thing's for sure: some 'guy' doesn't simply put out a press release with that sort of information because he is suffering from "mass hysteria" - there's that little thing called chain of command.

And if that press release was really the result of "war jitters" or "mass hysteria" as you claim, how come no one suffered any consequences?

Curiously enough Col. Blanchard even got promoted in 1948 to director of operations of the Strategic Air Command's Eighth Air Force.



Regarding the possibility of being a Project Mogul balloon, Kevin Randle (and others) has done some research into Mogul's flights.

Third, I see nothing to suggest that Flight No. 4 was even launched. According to a diary kept by Dr. Albert Crary, the man in charge of the balloon experiments in New Mexico, Flight No. 4, scheduled for an early morning launch on June 4 was cancelled because of bad weather.

Here’s what Crary wrote, "June 4, 1947. Out to Tularosa Range and fired charges between 00 and 06 this am. No balloon flight again on account of clouds. Flew regular sonobuoy up in cluster of balloons and had good luck on receiver on ground but poor on plane. Out with Thompson pm. Shot charges from 1800 to 2400."

source

Moore, as have so many other skeptics, quotes the Brazel description of the debris he found that appeared in the newspaper. "When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches think, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 to 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds."

But Moore, as like all the other skeptics before him, fails to report that Brazel said that he had found weather observation devices before but this was nothing like them. But if it was Mogul, then it would have been recognizable as a weather observation device because Mogul was made up of regular weather observation devices. So what was so strange about it that it induced Brazel to drive into Roswell to report it? Why did the military then wish to accompany him back out to the ranch to see where it was found? And if it only weighed five pounds, what is all that other stuff that was supposedly scattered in the high desert around the ranch?

And here is something else that the skeptics fail to report. Moore told me that he and a couple of the others on the Mogul team went to Roswell to ask for their help in tracking their balloons. The officers at Roswell didn’t have the time to deal with "college boys." This means, of course, that the officers at Roswell knew about Mogul and what it would be like.

source

It's ludicrous to believe that so many people would misidentify a Mogul balloon with a "flying saucer".
And even more ludicrous is that the "flying saucer recovered" story was released to the media because of "one guy" who was suffering from "mass hysteria".

We know your username is IgnoreTheFacts, but don't if you want to argue seriously about this.

A HOAX craft to cover Tesla blitz craft as bring of Alien origin.

Quite dull and I'm sure you have heard that before.

Find a combined Tesla and UFO topic page on the net and develop a
whole new agenda.

Its not Aliens, its your government.

Isn't the UFO the biggest scientific discovery ever.
I'm sure you would agree.
But do not attribute them to Aliens but to a silent or lying government or
hoaxers and si fi writers.

reply to post by 1nL1ghtened

From your linked article

News of the alien involvement in the Persian gulf war was first revealed when pentagon intelligence reports of the U.S. armed forces performance were partially disclosed in Washington. For security reasons, much of the sensitive information is still classified top secret. Rumors of the UFO incident were verified by London based reporter Anthony Edens, who gained access to the joint American-british accounts of the UFO incident, revealed in London.

How come we never see the source documents for these releases. A reporter verified rumors of this disclosed information. Hard to believe this one.

That's about like me saying people believe in UFO being piloted by ETs and people don't believe in ihe same.

Roswell is significant in that it is near the being of all this UFO mess. It most likely says something very significant. The fact that proof positive of negative has not been found is a real shame.

I also wonder about the materials because if they are not somehow 'magical' from our point of view, they seem pretty flimsy for a craft that flies in our atmosphere and possibly space.

I can't see the continued cover-up of some early military experiment. It's not like the whole world doesn't know cover-ups happened because of the WWII and cold war periods. The explanation implies the average person is ignorant and wouldn't see through it.

Edit: fix end tag




[edit on 10/28/2007 by roadgravel]

Originally posted by danx
If you think that "one guy" is responsible for putting out the press release and telling the media and everyone about what the military had recovered, you are seriously deluded.

But that's exactly what happened, Blanchard was on leave. Haut (who used to run the for profit Roswell “Musuem”) has changed his story so many times now it's not even funny! He even admitted that he "doesn't remember" if anyone told him to write it or if he wrote the "press release" himself...

www.roswellfiles.com...

Yeah OK. By the way, signing an affidavit means nothing. I can sign an affidavit that says there's leprechauns in my back yard... doesn't mean it's true.

Originally posted by danx
It's ludicrous to believe that so many people would misidentify a Mogul balloon with a "flying saucer".

Nobody who actually saw the debris said it was a flying saucer at the time so nobody misidentified anything! They all said it was some tin foil, papers and sticks. It wasn’t until 30 years later that some less than scrupulous characters decided to change their story… what’s ludicrous is believing them without any evidence!

Originally posted by danx
And even more ludicrous is that the "flying saucer recovered" story was released to the media because of "one guy" who was suffering from "mass hysteria".

I wouldn't say he was “suffereing” from mass hysteria really… he just blew it by thinking nobody would believe it and it would make a good cover story... not too clever as he soon found out.

What crashed in Roswell is the credibilty of UFO research... that you can take to the bank!

Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by danx
If you think that "one guy" is responsible for putting out the press release and telling the media and everyone about what the military had recovered, you are seriously deluded.

But that's exactly what happened, Blanchard was on leave. Haut (who used to run the for profit Roswell “Musuem”) has changed his story so many times now it's not even funny! He even admitted that he "doesn't remember" if anyone told him to write it or if he wrote the "press release" himself...

www.roswellfiles.com...

Regarding Col. Blanchard being on leave:

>I have often wondered about this. Blanchard went on leave. Has
>anyone ever determined who was acting Commander when he was gone?

Officially it was the Roswell Deputy base commander Lt. Col.
Payne Jennings, who signed another order to replace Blanchard.
However, when it was being publicly announced that Blanchard was
on leave, Jennings was busy flying Marcel and his cargo of
debris to Fort Worth. (This according to Robert Porter, who was
on the flight.) Nobody was at home minding the store.

The base operations officer, however, said that he was quite
certain that Blanchard first went out to the debris field to
make a determination. So officially Blanchard was on leave, but
he was still acting in his capacity as base C/O.

Another point is that Blanchard didn't go on leave until after
the press release had gone out and all the ruckus had begun.
There were some press stories at the time that Blanchard had
issued the release and had been in communication with Gen.
Ramey, who had ordered Marcel's flight. Blanchard was hardly
some unwitting innocent in all this. Whatever happened and why,
I think it is pretty clear that the press release was issued
with Blanchard's authority. That is certainly the story that
Blanchard's PIO, Walter Haut, has always told.

source

From the link you provided:

In the August/September 1992 issue of Air & Space/Smithsonian Magazine, Frank Kuznik wrote:

"Before my trip to Wright-Patterson, I tracked down Walter Haut, the retired base public information officer who wrote the infamous press release, and asked him if he ever actually saw the wreckage. 'No, and I feel like an idiot every time somebody asks me that,' he said ruefully. 'I got a call from the base commander, who basically dictated what was in the press release.'"

Base commander = Col. Blanchard.
Nothing contradictory there.


The 1993 affidavit that's posted on the link you provided:

4. In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air base, serving as the base Public Information Officer. At approximately 9:30 AM on July 8, I received a call from Col. William Blanchard, the base commander, who said he had in his possession a flying saucer or parts thereof.

Again, that's exactly the same thing that's on his 2002 affidavit.


What Haut is quoted saying in that OMNI article (which was written in 1995 btw) is that he doesn't remember if it was Blanchard that called him and told him what to write or if it was Blanchard's adjutant under orders from Blanchard.

I agree with Rudiak regarding Walter Haut's affidavit and the so called contradictory statements.

Originally posted by danx
Regarding Col. Blanchard being on leave:

Quoting Rudiak who’s quoting impeached witnesses and unsubstantiated claims ain’t gonna cut it…

www.roswellfiles.com...

www.roswellfiles.com...

Originally posted by danx

What Haut is quoted saying in that OMNI article (which was written in 1995 btw) is that he doesn't remember if it was Blanchard that called him and told him what to write or if it was Blanchard's adjutant under orders from Blanchard.

Who cares when he said it, he contradicted himself later and no, that’s not exactly what he said, you left out the most important part…

When I pressed Haut about the authorship of the release, he answered frankly: "I cannot honestly remember whether I wrote it, whether he had given me the information and told me `This is what I want in it.' It was not that big a production at that time, in my mind."

"Well, there were quite a few reports of flying saucers at that time," Haut reminded me. "I had a multitude of hats I wore. I had all kinds of things to do. I asked my wife, when all this [the renewed interest in Roswell in the mid 1980s] started, `Do you remember me coming home and saying anything about it?"' Her reply, he recalled, was simply no."

He’s saying in 1995 it was no big deal, now he’s saying saw the debris and bodies and General Ramey was there etc. etc. LOL

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by 1nL1ghtened

From your linked article

News of the alien involvement in the Persian gulf war was first revealed when pentagon intelligence reports of the U.S. armed forces performance were partially disclosed in Washington. For security reasons, much of the sensitive information is still classified top secret. Rumors of the UFO incident were verified by London based reporter Anthony Edens, who gained access to the joint American-british accounts of the UFO incident, revealed in London.

How come we never see the source documents for these releases. A reporter verified rumors of this disclosed information. Hard to believe this one.

That's about like me saying people believe in UFO being piloted by ETs and people don't believe in ihe same.

Roswell is significant in that it is near the being of all this UFO mess. It most likely says something very significant. The fact that proof positive of negative has not been found is a real shame.

I also wonder about the materials because if they are not somehow 'magical' from our point of view, they seem pretty flimsy for a craft that flies in our atmosphere and possibly space.

I can't see the continued cover-up of some early military experiment. It's not like the whole world doesn't know cover-ups happened because of the WWII and cold war periods. The explanation implies the average person is ignorant and wouldn't see through it.

Edit: fix end tag




[edit on 10/28/2007 by roadgravel]

The quote you quoted stays it all....its the brilliant catch-all derived by "the people in the know", brought to you by the same group whom coined such snazzy phrases like, "plausable deniability"..

For security reasons, much of the sensitive information is still classified top secret.

Aren't secrets grand?

Roswell was definitely the site of a downed craft of some sort. Whether or not it was interplanetary I don't know. I do find it suspicious that there was a military presence at the "crash site" for several months on cleanup and sanitation duty. A weather balloon apparatus does not require cleanup as extensive as the military made it. I am anxious however to see what comes up from this new Kecksburg investigation and lawsuit. NASA is required by law to bring up documents they filed at the time of the crash. While I am extremely anxious to see what happens, more likely than not the documents will be fabricated to prove there was no aliens, just a simple meteor. Original documents are far gone and out of reach by now.

news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by Access Denied
Quoting Rudiak who’s quoting impeached witnesses and unsubstantiated claims ain’t gonna cut it…

www.roswellfiles.com...

www.roswellfiles.com...

Oh, but quoting the Cowflop by Robert Todd - where there's an ad hominem attack every other line - is?

Not to mention that what's being contested in the documents that you linked is that Kevin Randle claimed that Blanchard was on leave on the 8th as part of the "cover" to deal with the crash, and Todd is saying that there's evidence pointing to Blanchard's leave only starting on the 9th.

Researchers have over the past 20 years scoured countless FOIA documents, newspapers, and unit histories looking for the "smoking gun" that would prove their claims. Regarding the whereabouts of Col. Blanchard, their efforts have turned up some interesting information:

There is decent evidence that Col Blanchard and his wife were on vacation for a little over two weeks, starting on July 9, 1947!

Which helps Rudiak's point when he stated that

Another point is that Blanchard didn't go on leave until after
the press release had gone out and all the ruckus had begun.
There were some press stories at the time that Blanchard had
issued the release and had been in communication with Gen.
Ramey, who had ordered Marcel's flight.

The information that you posted and linked only shows that it's entirely possible that Col. Blanchard was there on the (7th and) 8th and thus not contradicting Haut's testimony.

Maybe Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson can help if he gets in:

Answering questions at a townhall meeting Friday, a Dell employee asked Richardson about the 1947 incident in which many people still believe a flying saucer landed near the eastern New Mexico town.

"I've been in government a long time, I've been in the cabinet, I've been in the Congress and I've always felt that the government doesn't tell the truth as much as it should on a lot of issues," said Richardson, who is governor of New Mexico.

"When I was in Congress I said (to the) Department of Defense ... 'What is the data? What is the data you have?' " He was told that the records were classified. "That ticked me off," he said, as the crowd laughed.

"What do you want me to do? You want me to open up all those files?" he asked the alien enthusiast, who answered that he did. "I'll work with you on that."

www.americanthinker.com...

Chaz.

People cannot be trusted, and everyone involved in the 'modern' discussions about Roswell have something to gain, even if it is simply attention. Someone like Philip Corso is a perfect example of a 'trusted person' who simply cannot be believed because he was always in the right spot at the right time.

We may never know the truth about Roswell, and there may be nothing sinister about the real events in any case. We are drawn to the chilling accounts of people playing with materials that displayed extremely unusual properties, but again these people are feeding us what we want to hear. They are playing out carefully pruned memories over and over again to the point where they honestly believe the details they are giving us. This is the simple defect to human memory and the reason that witnesses are often so very wrong even without deliberate intent to mislead.

If indeed a craft crashed in the area, and bodies along with wreckage were recovered, it is the most important event in human history. Because of this we want to believe that this happened so much that we subconsciously trick ourselves into seeing evidence that isn't really there, mostly in the form of believing sincere witnesses. Maybe someone like Corso is right, and that wreckage from an extra-terrestrial craft was studied in secret which led to advencements virtually overnight in various technologies. If this is true it would be an amazing story and the details of which would have us all falling off our seat to digest.

By now Roswell has become myth without substance, and there really are no more whistleblowers around to bring the truth to the surface anyway. Sadly there may never be a resolution to this mystery...

dunno for sure what crashed there of course but i I do like the explanation regarding downed UFOs was related to new radar implemented shortly after the Pearl Harbor incident.
It's about the only explanation I've heard thus far that makes sense for the outbreaks in that time period.
b

I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine why an ET craft that has successfully navigated it's way across the galaxy at high speed, between stars, asteroids, and interstellar debris would crash into this planet.

Is it me or is it believable that government is pissed about Roswell incident being so popular?