We live in a Zero Tolerance Society

Well, LDragonFire, since you asked for our thoughts and experiences, I think I'll do just that.

Even though I graduated from public education awhile ago, I still hear stories about the system from either my sister or people I know that attend the local schools.

I'm not sure what area you live in, it may make some small bit of difference (though I doubt it), but I went to school in northern New Jersey. There were roughly 1500 students attending.

There has always been a "Zero Tolerance" policy in place throughout my public education. I've had countless articles from the school newspaper removed due to the "unnecessary" content in questioning the school system. I've had essays that spoke negatively about school administration brought to my attention with many warnings of how it can be seen as "conspirative ". Lower-grade education wasn't as terrible as High School.

Freshmen year of high school they put in place a mandatory student ID policy. If you were found without your ID, even if you had lost it/had it stolen/forgot it, you were given a detention, sent home or suspended (depending on what teacher caught you). Later that year, there were over 5 bomb and shooting threats, giving the administration a reason to create a stiffer "lock down" during school. They also put in place a no-backpack policy that stated anyone with a backpack on their persons would be given a detention. Teachers patrol the hallways on their periods off for any offenders. A new, very strict school dress code is created.

Sophomore year they put in a bell system on the school. If you went outside (the art classes went outside a lot for nature studies, as well as gym classes to the sports fields), you had to be rung back in by someone from the security office, but only if you had proof of your ID. All IDs became bar-coded and came with a metal strip on the back this year (though we wouldn't find out what this magnetized strip was for until Junior year). My friend was also arrested in the beginning of the year for making "threats" against school administration in an online blog he had started. In actuality the blog was created to document the insanity of our school system. Around December they put in a zero-religion policy as well as a zero-affection policy. Anything you did relating to religion (Christmas ect) was against the rules and resulted in an automatic detention/suspension. Anyone caught kissing in the halls were suspended automatically.

Junior year they introduced the metal detectors to all entrances to the school, as well as cameras in every hallway and new hallway gate system, where at any second, if the administrators saw a threat, the gates could be closed to "shut off" a hallway from another, and capture the culprit inside. Random searches happened to any student. For any after-school activity you had to sign release forms that you can be randomly drug tested, even if they didn't suspect you of drugs. You could also be kicked off the team/club for no reason if the supervisor saw it fit. You were required to scan your ID before purchasing lunch. They also hired two state police to be on the campus during all school hours.

I'm not sure how they kept thinking to add things to the school security, but they did. Senior year they added swipe-able locks for every classroom, which was what the metal strip on the IDs were for. At the bell, each classroom door was locked until the period was over. If you were out in the hall without a pass, you were given a detention. You needed your ID to get into the classrooms if you were late, and probably punished. The entire year could be seen as a "total lockdown" to most people, but that's just how our school operated. We never had senior trips, like most schools do. They cancelled our senior prom because a bunch of kids were caught rallying together an awareness event against the administrative insanity. They were also suspended.

My friend recently told me of a few sevearly religious muslims who were suspended for praying during class two weeks ago.

Don't even get me started on how dangerous forks are.

Welcome to America.





My thoughts on the matter...

I'm not sure if I have any thoughts. The strict rule is scary from the outside, but it's what I was brought up on. I'm not saying I didn't hate it, because I did. I hated it so much, but when you're a kid with scary adults staring at you saying you're trying to kill your fellow students with a fork, there really isn't much you can do about it. Parents in the community actually love the "secure" environment, especially after a crazy child molester was caught outside of one of the schools and a possible school-shooter was stopped.

I think part of the problem is people in charge feel they can't trust kids to do the right thing. They feel that kids don't have any common sense and can't think for themselves. It's the same mentality that some parents have by giving newborns a super sterile environment: it's actually worse for them than the scary "dirty" world. They don't give kids a reason to be mature and use their judgment; they give them reasons to become angry and hate adult figures, resulting in violent outbursts.

Very interesting how you related this to the NWO though, I had never thought of that before.

This is one of those subjects that im on the fence about. I clearly see both sides and cant seem to choose one. Im also a mother, and my child hasnt even entered the school system yet. I have much anxiety over this

I graduated high school in '89...so things are quite different....but in a sense not. I went to public schools in Texas....where corporal punishment was still in use. Can you imagine a child being "popped" nowdays?

Also, we were not allowed to wear shorts or short skirts. Boys could not have their hair longer then their shirt collar. We could not wear "band" tshirts (Metallic, etc), nor wear anything with pictures of drugs (pot leaf) Smoking anywhere near the school got you in big time trouble. We were not allowed to have knives in our lunches....but we did have soda manchines. We were not allowed to have any food, drinks, candy or gum in class. LOL We had to have parental permission to receive any medicine from the nurse.

This was back in the 80s. Seems pretty strict to me....at least it did back then. And some of those things are now allowed.

As far as the standards now.........I understand the whole Zero tollerance policy....but then again....its too extreme. Thus my issue of being on the fence. They need to take each situation and look at it separately.

How do we know that the kid over there w/ the pocket knife isnt pissed off at some other kid and waiting for the opportune time to attack? Yet, how do we know that he is probably carrying it in memory of his dead grandfather who gave it to him? We dont know, until it is asked of him.


Such a tough issue....but one I watch closely.

I mean, what if I want my daughter to carry something in her purse as protection....or even a cell phone for emergency. She would get in trouble for it...even if I gave her permission. If my daughter has bad PMS, I want her to be able to take something when she wants, w/out having to go to a nurse.

Some days, homeschooling just seems like the only option.

I had the same thing happen to my son, and he was the same age! He had JUST turned six years old and was in the 1st grade. Apparently they had a show and tell day and he brought his paw paw's old swiss army knife to show that class. I was not aware that he had it. The next thing I know is the school is calling me FREAKING OUT because he pulled this swiss army knife out of his pocket at show and tell. AND THIS WAS AT THE END OF THE DAY, right before school let out....I just could not understand what the big deal was....The school was talking about suspending him and possibly expelling him over this. Thank God I was able to diffuse the situation and was able to assure them that this would never happen again, but I walked out of there rolling my eyes....

Sounds like the school system has become a prison system with all those rules and regulations juvenile inmates are made to follow.

I might be showing my age here but when I was in grade school, by far the most dangerous animal in the classroom was the teacher.

We were all well armed with knives (jack knives and switch blades mostly but there is nothing like a nice geometry compass through the eyeball to get someone's attention, however briefly.)

But back in those days, you only threatened people with your weapon if things were really getting out of hand. Nobody actually stabbed anybody, except in extremely rare cases when someone "lost it" and maybe scratched someone, and then everyone was horrified and everything sobered up right away.

The teachers, on the other hand, assaulted people right and left with impunity. I have been both witness and victim of such assaults. What did we do? Nothing. We toughed it out.

From time to time, some hothead would fight back against a teacher. That kind of thing would result in a trip to the principal's office, where "the strap" would be administered. Fellow students would intervene afterward and sympathize with the "offender" and things would get back to "normal". "Normal" being brutal pedantic teaching methods, getting clobbered by the teachers and us fooling around with our weapons at recess.

School went beautifully. Of course back in those days they actually flunked you if you did poorly. Everybody worked hard so we could get the hell out of there.

Originally posted by WorldShadow
Sounds like the school system has become a prison system with all those rules and regulations juvenile inmates are made to follow.

That's it in a nutshell. "Zero Tolerance" is a sign that the system has lost control and now considers anyone and everyone a potential threat.
It is the irrational reaction of an entity that can no longer differentiate between the innocuous and the pathological. In an attempt to protect itself from it's own deficiencies in judgment and rationality -it strikes out at anything it perceives as a threat.
If said systems were an individual, modern psychiatry would classify them as sociopathic. Somehow, as a bureaucracy they get a pass though.

My youngest son has disabilities, behavioral type, and takes many medications. He went thru a phase of rebellion and attention getting, and one day on the school bus he said " I have a weapon ", and then laughed. It was just a joke to him meant to get someones attention, but it landed him in very hot water.

First, he was banned from the bus. I had to drive him to school and pick him up until I demanded some common sense and objected, since no weapon was real and it was only talk. So, they insisted that he ride thwe handicapped bus and be strapped into a seat with an attendant present going and coming from school. That made my son the butt of countless jokes at school from the other kids and made him even more rebellious.

Then, while in a classroom with a teacher and no other students present, my son was fidgeting and restless, all due to medication changes, with a doctors note that it would be that way..and when he would not sit still, the teacher got fed up and called the Deputy sheriff that stays at school ( middle schjool, 7th grade) and told him to charge my son with ' disorderly conduct '. The cop did so, and I went nuts on them. I wrote letters to the Editor, which got published and caused a real stink in this small toen, and finally I got the charge dropped after embarrassing quite a few local county employees.

But my sone was marked then, and suffered for it: ZERO TOLERANCE for all things he did; if he so much as looked sideways, they woulod suspend him. Finally, I had to send him to a private facility far away, as there are no facilities close to home, and he will be there six months as of this coming month. When he returns, he will go back to public school and I will be on the look out again for more trouble from the locals. I will fight them, of course, tooth and nail.They have had my son in a disciplinary class for years, as they have no funds for a class for disabled kids; so the kids that have real issues are crammed into a class of misfits and troublemakers..great influence for a kid with problems already, eh?

People who live in cities may have more choices, but out here in the sticks there are really very few options and the county government is made up of good old boy networks, with a few prominent local families holding onto positions that are handed down from father to son, etc. Lately there has been a big brouhaha about a new bus driver for the schools: A replacement was needed for a retiring driver, and instead of hiring the substitute that had been working there for years, the old bus driver chose his daughter as his replacement!! He was allowed to choose instead of the school board people!!

Typical nonsense that is rampant in all small towns, especially isolated mountain communities like this one. In a year or two we are moving to Norcal, Humboldt county, California, to get more of a liberal atmosphere, and perhaps better treatment for my son. Most states are in a mental health crisis right now, and it is getting worse. Kids who have issues need help, not zero tolerance idiocy.

Zero tolerance worls both ways: WE must adopt zero tolerance for the government doing wrong things..WE must have ZERO tolerance for bad laws and stupid employees at schools, and we must have ZERO tolerance for allowing our kids to be trained as mindless automatons that will obey the authority figures without thinking.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
My youngest son has disabilities, behavioral type, and takes many medications.

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your son, but I have noticed that many kids are being drugged for bogus reasons. I would encourage you to get your kid off these drugs as soon as possible. No child should spend their growing years doped up on Ritalin and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

My son has been taking meds for many years, because he could not sit still and remain in a classroom. He was diagnosed as Aspergers and ADD and ODD and other unspecified illnesses. Believe me, if there was any way to keep him in the public schools without meds I would. Here is what happens when you resist the authorities:

The school notices that the child has ' issues ' and reports it to the parents and staff. The parents are told that if they do not submit to medication, then the child will not be allowed into school. If the parents are not able to home school ( I cannot for many very good reasons ) then the child MUST taake the meds and attend school. If the parent refuses, then Social Services is called and an investigation is begun to see if the parents are ' harming ' the child by withholding the meds.

If the SS people believe that the child should be getting meds, then they will go to court and demand that the parents be ordered to submit to the meds, or the SS will remove the child from the home and place him or her with foster parents that WILL obey the SS people. I have seen it happen. As a single Dad with three kids, I simply cannot home school, and am not prepared to teach in the proper manner, especially with a child that has special needs . He gets speech therapy as well as monthly psychiatric visits and counseling, which would all stop if I stopped the meds.

Also, you CANNOT just stop meds, it can cause deadly effects, and withdrawl from meds can ONLY be done by a doctor, with very close monitoring. Parents in this day and age cannot just refuse and balk at treatment because the State will step in. It is sick but true.

I am moving very soon to NorCal, and hope for a better deal there. Here in North Carolina, the system is in shambles. I want to remove my sone from ALL unneded meds as soon as possible, and as soon as safe. Believe me I hate the system and want hin of of that crap. Who knows who the poor little guy really is after years of these meds. I insisted that they stop the speed garbage like the meth based meds, like Addera, etc. and he has grown and put on weight remarkable since then, but if I removed all meds and he reacted badly, the SS would be knocking on my door to remove him, and then there would be a real fight.

Maybe in California I can find a doctor that will work on removing meds as possible, and perhaps even experimenting with cannabis as a med. I preefer natural if possible, and many patients have reported great benefit from cannabinoid therapy. Better that than all that Big Pharma crap!! Time will tell: Just do nOT blame parents for giving their kids meds: Parents MUST act in a way that is legally and socially acceptable or risk losing their kids to the State, and there are very few doctors that believe in stopping meds, especially if symptoms are down, even temporarily.

Parents have less and less choices now that the government and cops and SS are in on the deal, and we must find new ways of dealing with them as well as the meds.

A sticky wicket, to be sure. I just don't think you can go through childhood like this and still grow into a 'normal' adult. On the plus side, at least your kid is ineligible for military service.

Our society is sick, not our kids. "Home of the free, home of the brave?" Well, maybe a long time ago...

[edit on 30-10-2007 by starviego]

I joined here like... three or four years ago. Don't remember why, had something to do with Coast to Coast, I think. Didn't do much, probably only logged in once, stopped getting the newsletter after a while. Then I realized no one was making a fuss about "water flowed recently on Mars, Nasa scientists say" and decided to check out ATS... and oddly enough startied geting the newsletter again despite not signing in and using a different computer. *shrug*. (Yeah, off topic... I guess it goes here since I don't see myself being incredibly active around here and I wanted to say it. ^^).

But this discussion got me to proclaim "Jesus Christ!" probably more than any given day of my life... sum a few if you like. So here, is the part where I make a very long, and probably train-of-thought-wrecking post, despite that I have an hour in which to do academic related tasks, and wonder just what I'm accomplishing...


Ok. So, I've had no use of my left eye since birth (I don't think being born was fun for me...), and my right eye eventually scarred, was surgically *ahem* treated, was moderately usable for several years (though super-thick glasses tend to help with artistic things), then I went to Las Vegas in 2002, tried to look around at street level and I think something about the air or the light or whatever there totally fried my right eye's defenses, so now my vision is well nigh unusable, and I just noticed over the weekend that it started to reach "full power" as I dub it, while I was in bed aasleep... since I had left the light on and was kinda staring up at it--I don't know if it was the fact that the colors were looking right or the pain from the fact that my eye is apparently really really vulnerable the more it sees that woke me. But I digress.

Despite all of that, I went to public school, eventually got into the school of Math and Science in this state my Junior year of highschool and graduated from there, and am currently ... urm... in college.
Everywhere I go, what I hear leads me to believe I am extraordinarily fortunate... and I'm in a shifty piece dangling on the Bible belt, at that.
Actually, the first day of school, the teacher told the class to be nice to me in particular. (Betcha can guess why. ). And I've got to say... what I noticed in terms of school policy toward everyone in general seemed to work for what it was good for. After all, you have a lot of social groups and situations that extend beyond school (in my school it was usually black = poor and not in advance classes, other than a couple exceptions, and there aren't many I've encountered in the area--social/racial/religious status aside--that do anything to change such). I never really felt like the school system was overstepping itself, other than my supreme distaste for the system in sixth grade (No stalls in the boys' bathrooms? What? Just... a three foot high wall between toilets? On one wall... on the other wall it was just a bunch of urinals in the ground. I guess it'd be a waste of details if I didn't mention that I once found my pants un-dry as a result of my supreme loathing for such a setup--I guess I'm too used to "luxury" despite starting rather low economically and now only being middle-middle class-ish.)(Ah, and let's not forget the occasional administrative figure that showed some sort of bias or ill treatment of a situation that just annoyed us... but those are personal issues) (Ah, and the construction of the new wing of the school fall semester of sixth grade. OSHA would not have approved of that worksite, and my homeroom was right beside it, so it was a battle not to pass out from smoke and paint and other organic solvents. I seriously wanted to sue someone over that semester, but oh look: new wing has proper stalls and the smoking construction crew is gone when it's done. Awe, snap.).
*** Continued ***

We then have what I'll call the "highschool disciplinary experience", which was essentially me trying to find a way to use computer lab computers while waiting for proper installation of screenreader software, the demo not working on the computer I was going to use, the teacher deciding to try it on her computer, and compatability issues wiping it. Oy, I think some people were not too pleased with the call to the princible's office the next mroning--"Do you know what you did was wrong?" "You're generalizing--" "We're not playing games!". (Having time to think about it, I'm pretty aware of the answer to that question: Wrong, no. Stupid? Yes! But I doubt I could have gotten that in that "conversation" either. ^^.).
So following that, some... umm.. person... I don't even remember what her actual job did... decided to 'talk to me' every now and then for a variety of *ahem* social issues. Which reminds me of stuff I forgot from seventh grade where ... umm... I wasn't the normal "Hey guys! Pot sex and video games, eh?" kid, but instead chose to take up the philosophies of Pinky and the Brain in my every day speech... and was subsequently forced to go to the School for the Blind's summercamp program (Though being a pissed off thirteen-year-old, you can be assured that I did stupid violent things before going. Then wound up staying for the whole month for reasons that don't belong here...).

So, ninth grade: a teacher recommends anyone interested google quarks. I think I used Yahoo. I don't know. I searched and found hyperphysics, and then started asking questions, because that was a lot of information that there wasn't enough time left in school to be taught--was it useful? Dunno--no one's teaching it! So I asked questions about it. What happened? The teacher refused to give me a recommendation for the advanced science class next year, citing "poor class participation and random outbursts"--which, incidentally, I kept to a minimum that year. ^^. In fact, the same teacher said, and I quote, "I'm surprised" when I did make a random outburst ... in the spring semester. Oops. And participation... I think I'm getting a little full of myself, but asking questions and giving information that the teacher can't provide sollutions to isn't what I'd call poor participation so much as poor being not-smart. So yeah, that solidified my decision to apply for Math and Science, where ... things are up and down.
Math and Science isn't quite a public school, after all, so tighter restrictions apply: ID cards on person at all time was the rule, though I think I was among few that actually observed that rule. Restrictions on when one could leave campus, stuff like that. Then there's the contravercy over what is and isn't blocked on the network (Xanga got blocked because someone complained about her parents, and some other person offered assassination services that probably don't exist... later Livejournal was blocked for no apparent reason other than to annoy the LJ community that had been recently formed...), and some students were sent home or withdrew and much corruption was cited. But that's a pain to sort out. ^_^. Over all, I noticed an inordenant amount of mercy--though maybe it was just because it was me... I get way too much special treatment. Ah, and one more rule: manditory study hours from ... 7 to 9 pm or something. I was usually asleep by then, and if not, it meant I had been caught up in a friend's room and whatever happened (pirated media? o.o) spead through said hours... Again, maybe I'm getting full of myself, but... studying only makes sense to me when regurgitation of facts without being taught properly occurs. (I actually liked our "American studies" class... despite the fact that it focused only on the US... because despite all the reading assignments... I didn't really do any of them... and still learned quite a lot.).
**Continued? o.o***

(And concerning the physics things that got me to apply in the first place: Oh, we finally touched on those in the advanced topics in physics class my last semester of highschool, in a class of like 5 people or less depending on the day... people were like "ZOMG you're taking too many science classes!" (I did have the same instructor for three classes... some days he was the only teacher I had despite having multiple classes), and I was like "It's now or never from the looks of it, so tough luck!". And... I think I could have handled that better, but whatever.).

Meanwhile, back home... my sister is getting into junior high. And I start hearing rumors of IDs, strict dresscodes, tighter hall rules (I've heard of utter silence in the halls as a proposed rule...?). Cameras were in the building before, but I don't think they were widely used--though I know they did capture video of a disabled girl (courtesy an accident involving a train) deciding that since a shelf of brochures was labeled as free, she would take all of them just because... *ahem*. Dresscode enforcement has been an issue for a while, and with reason, I suppose (Scanty clothes and lots of teen pregnancy? o-o), though that didn't seem to get out of hand in terms of what the school was doing about it while I was there... I hear rumors that things may go up quite a bit, though (My father also tells me that shorts weren't allowed when he was in school, and I'm vague on details for the changes planned at present, so I can't say much else... except uniforms would prompt me to protest).
Ah, and the "Public display of affection" policy started in I think ninth grade. I didn't hear much about that other than someone marching into the bandroom being rather proud of being written up for hugging someone in the hallway.
Egh, that school is now on the path to "Gra! Must be bigger!", and the population of the town is growing ridiculously too, so a vast amount of construction and test score based classes are involved.

So far, no real issues have presented themselves. Now, let's take a look at ... other parts of my family.
I have two younger brothers that live in another state. One of which has quite a bit of ADHD, and, being in a completely separate situation from my father (I bet you see where this is going) is rather medicated to deal with it... though attempts have been made to get him to make responsible decisions without relying on it...
Now, at home: since my cousin landed herself in prison in I believe mid 2001, her two surviving kids now live with us. One of them, I'm rather confident has some kinda ADHD, but not as severe as my brother--generic super ridiculous amounts of hyper and focus issues regardless of the setting, and the other is big fattish, has a crazy southern speech manerism that came from somewhere we can't place, and seems to have learning issues. Now, since their mother was known to have... hmm... issues with dangerous substances, and at the time they were in a low-income household already on foodstamps with a preacher showing up every Sunday (This was pre custody exchange), and given the extreme disability of their only sibling to live past thirty minutes of age, they were pretty early on in the system of "charity preschool analysis for the possibly handycapped". Oddly enough, they were under the impression the hyperactive kid was slow, while the one that got put in Pre-first (What is that, anyway?) instead of first grade was too smart to qualify for special preschooling. Oh, and I think one of the problems that counted as failing (I forget who for, but I think it was hyper-boy) was ... difficulty buttoning pants? (Oh, come on... that's just cheap...).

Despite this, no one is on medication for behavioral reasons in our household.
*** I type too much. ***

Despite this, no one is on medication for behavioral reasons in our household. Though I question how much testing has been done for the two boys--I know the one with multiple problems is a lot more recognized now, since he's in speech classes, has some cynus issues, has trouble with combining written language to actual words, Etc; he wound up not quite pulling out of Kindergarten well enough to meet the expectations of the powers on high, but still wasn't slow enough to be held back or completely special ed-isolated... so he's in Pre-first, which my Father isn't too pleased with (His position is that it is more than possible for the kid to catch up if he's put in normal classes, even if he starts out a bit behind, whereas now he'll have to deal with a fair bit of lag in the system).

So in summary: people make my life too easy and therefore all of my issues are internal and thus hard to find sollutions to, I don't like the direction my school is taking now that I'm out of it despite a very small amount of detail in my possession, and Dad clearly has more faith in kids than the school system does.
(For comparison's sake: the hyperactive one is doing just fine. Though two incidents of disciplinary action at school come to mind: one, he drew tears of blood on someone else's drawing of a person... somebody didn't like that... and there was mild violence related trouble in Kindergarten, but that doesn't strike me as noteworthy... and once I think when he was in first grade and one of his teachers was apparently having a bad day and ... dropped something or something and bent over and the students in the area got an eyefull, his first reaction was to shout "EEWW!", and I guess people laughed or something and the teacher went into disciplinary mode. It doesn't take much for him to shout "EEWW!" though... never mind the fact that he was fine with the graphics in Mortal Kombat until someone apparently lectured him on gore sometime in the past two years...).

I think this post failed to contribute. Hmm. Sorry.

reply to post by LDragonFire


No surprise. 2 new articles in my local Paper:

"Boys suspended for playing cops and robbers"

"Kindergarten boy draws gun, suspended"

YAWN, "just another day in Communist USA". Man I love that rhyme.

They are a part of school policy but they are becoming a policy in our legal system as well. Just wait until your neigbors call the police on you for posable Domestic violence consern because they heard yelling from your home. Or a cheating spouse makes a false acusation of DV to kick you out of the home and get custody of the children. Zero Tolerance policys give the police a brainless job and that is to go make a arrest without gathering evidence or using their brains. No compassion, no logic, just a brutal machine like sence of duty to arrest a "bad" guy. Submit and do what you are told attitude.

What if you are innocent? Submit and do what you are told? Oh well you have to pay thousands of dollars to have a shot at clearing your name and getting your freedom back. This is why our court system is tied up and our jails and prisons overflowing. They even have privatized probation services. What does that tell you? Everyone is a potential criminal? Everyone is bad? Zero Tolerance policys are the laws of the police state.

All of this crap started with political correctness. People wanted a politically correct society, well, you got it. I hope you enjoy it.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I have to agree with you. I think a lot of this has to be blamed on political correctness also. I think that it is a effort to make everything black and white.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
All of this crap started with political correctness. People wanted a politically correct society, well, you got it. I hope you enjoy it.

I agree that much of this could be the fault of political correctness, but I don't agree that this is what the people wanted. This is what a portion of the population wanted. It is my opinion that "political correctness" is a part of modern day fascism.

This is the world, that we have all helped to create, either by directly supporting it, or by not directly fighting it, apathy. As long as my cell phone works and I get that next text message from my girl, then everything is right and good with the world[sarcasm] WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!

It is up to us to make things better. Is it possible? Yes I think so, but we must care about Freedom, does anything else really matter?

[edit on 1-11-2007 by LDragonFire]

I feel for those that lost loved ones in shootings, the worst of coarse involving childeren

But

We have lost our perspective, this is shark attack mentality. One attack on beach and entire coast only thinks of the shark.

Freedom requires courage. Part of this courage is to accept sometimes bad things will happen, and to accept over control, and go to far to condition and "nanny state" a society you do not really help it. Of coarse that is not the goal, getting society to submit is the goal, and a fear of one or two incidents becomes the method.

thousands die from car crashes, I do not see zero tolerance on things like drinking and driving, or cell phone usage in cars.

Thousands die from accidents when scuba diving, mountain climbing, sky diving, etc. I see no zero tolerance on those activities.

Thousands probably choke on food, I do not see mandatory blenders in restaurants.

This is one high emotional event used to achieve multiple goals. Train people to be compliant, remove guns, drug kids, and add fear to further sell out freedom.

North Korea is a pretty safe place, not much crime there, is that what we want.

Freedom requires courage, grow a pair and see the reality of the percentages, it is not that bad out there. Millions of kids under the iron thumb of thought control to prevent a possible one or two terrible tragedies. Buck up and teach our children independence and dignity.