Ad Showing 'Homosexual' Newborn Causes Stir in Italy

No more than downs syndrome.

Are they, the angels, any less important? Yet would you seek out preventative science?

Hmmm..

We live in an age where problems are ubiquitous, and instead of seeing them all the time, sometimes we cover them and say "What problem?"

Nonetheless, they're still there.

Well, reading some of the dafter comments in this thread makes me realise why such a poster is necessary:

Many, many Heterosexuals are deluded, ignorant,misinformed and bigoted.

The poster is a graphic way of stating the obvious. It is no better or worse than zillions of other graphic posters that have been used to educate/inform and spark debate for decades (Anyone in the UK remember the 70s poster featuring the "pregnant" man?).

Sorry, heterosexuals, but crying because this poster features a baby or "pushes" a "Gay agenda" at the expense of the poor, opressed heterosexual community is not a good way for adults to behave.

The poster is Italian...a Catholic country...where many citizens will believe that Homosexuality is a sin. That Gays will burn in hell. In other words, the predjudice against homosexuality MUST be countered otherwise humans will stick with their nonsense views forever more and pass their ignorance onto future generations.

If fighting ignorance and predjudice leaves the frightened "mainstream" crying about "Political Correctness" and doing their childish "I'm proud to be straight" routine then so be it.

The fact this poster is required is telling. The fact that it "caused a stir" is even more telling. Our socities have a loooooooooong way to go...let's keep on moving forward, folks.

reply to post by steveapple

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Hmmm. I dont see anyone "crying" anymore then you are "crying". People are stating thier opinions........just like you. If that is crying, then I will pass over a box of tissues for you.



Your kidding right? Becaues it is certainly NOT the straight people who are doing any childish "Im proud to be straight" routine. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I see no "Im straight and its great" parades. I only see "Im proud to be gay" parades.


"If we continue to place labels upon ourselves, then the rest of the world will continue to label us"

"If we continue to seprate ourselves from everyone, then the rest of the world will continue to keep us separate"


[edit on 27-10-2007 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo

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ROTFLMAO. That is hillarious.

Anyway, you make a good point, and show a great quote about segregation. Sure would be nice if people would realize this.

Nice.

I completley and absolutely agree with every word you just said.

reply to post by mike666

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I doubt it.
Remember if you will, they have shown through MRI imaging, and the like that a gay male has a brain whose structure is that of a straight female, and a gay female has a brain whose structure is that of a straight male.
The best any one can do before the expression of sexuality in a child is presume based on evidence what the possibility would be though genetic sequencing.. if there was a known gay gene...
Also, again, remember there are IDENTICAL TWINS, where one is gay, and one is straight.

One last, whenever anyone pulls out good old Lev 18:22, I have an email that I pass on tho them...




Knight, I think you have some very homophobic tendencies, and we'll see you in the news one day for beating up a gay guy, because you thought he was looking at your butt, or otherwise checking you out, when he may well have been critiquing the nails/hair/clothes/shoes of the woman who was standing beside you.
I would just like to know... When did you all choose to be straight? I don't know, I always thought boys were cute, and some where cuter than others... I never thought a girl was cute.
If you all think about it, you will see you never sat down and said, oh, I guess I AM straight. I didn't even know that there was a difference until middle school when someone asked about homosexuals, and heterosexuals...

Perhaps using the baby in the ad was a bit over the top, but I FIRMLY believe it was not LABELING the baby gay, it was saying that being gay is how you are born.
Remember there is a word called subtlety
And I forget who it was that compared blacks and gays, and said that the gay community was off base, I say no it is not. Black people were denigrated for something that they had no choice over.. being born black. Just as gay people have no choice in being born gay.

Homosexuality is not a fault or a disease

reply to post by badw0lf

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I'm not sure I understood the post in which you quoted me, badw0lf. I wasn't the one arguing in favour of eradicating the 'gay gene'; I was saying the opposite, that we should not attempt to eradicate it.

Down's syndrome sufferers and homosexuals are not the same. I think it is rather insensitive to the feelings of both parties, and those who love them, to compare the two. But let's not talk about that; let's explore, instead, the differences between them, which are illuminating.

First of all, Down's is a 'genetic' disease, but crucially, not in the sense that it is caused by an inherited mutation of a single gene; Down's is not usually inherited, it's random. In fact, it has nothing to do with genetic mutation at all: it is caused by the sufferer having a whole extra chromosome -- 47 instead of the usual 46.

Homosexuals do not have extra chromosomes.

Now, remember that in this sub-discussion we are asking ourselves what if homosexual orientation is mostly or wholly genetically determined. It may not be, or not entirely; environmental factors -- not parental or cultural conditioning but biochemical variations affecting foetal development -- may be the cause, as has already been discussed on this thread. That is certainly possible and a lot of studies indicate that these factors are relevant -- but right now we're sticking to the question of whether it would be wise to try to eradicate the 'gay gene' if one existed.

I am saying -- insisting, in fact -- that it is not.

There are diseases caused by deleterious mutations. Such diseases are usually quite rare, and tend to vanish over time because the mutants' reproductive success is not as high as their conspecifics' -- there are only so many loci on a strand of DNA, after all, and the competition between genes to occupy those loci is stiff. Genes that support the survival and reproduction of their carrier will tend to win over those that don't. This is what we call natural selection and it is, as I said earlier, ruthless.

A good example of a disease caused by a deleterious mutation is haemophilia, which results from the sufferer possessimg a defective gene: the factor VII gene, which occupies a locus on the X chromosome. It is a rare disease, affecting one in 10,000 men and one in 100,000,000 (yes, eight zeros) women. It is rare because male haemophiliacs are less likely to survive to reproductive age than normal people. But it survives because women, who have two copies of the X chromosome to men's one, can carry the gene and pass it on without suffering from haemophilia themselves -- the normal gene from one X chromosome compensates for the mutant gene on the other.

Yet even with this 'protection', haemophila is quite rare.

Homosexuality, on the other hand, is awfully common. Estimates of prevalance range from one in 25 to one in ten males. Prevalance among females is much rarer. Note that this is just what you would expect of a gene, like the gene for haemophilia, that is carried on the X chromosome. If homosexuality is inherited, it is matrilineally inherited*. But the point is, genes as common as this are never deleterious; on the contrary, they are usually genes that promote the survival of the carrier.

The obvious conclusion is that, if there is a 'homosex gene', it is a beneficial gene, not a deleterious one, and we may eradicate it only at the risk of eradicating a large chunk of humanity -- not just the gay ones. That was my earlier point.

* * *

Let's get one thing straight, shall we? Homosexuality is not a disease or a deficiency..

Homosexuals are normal people. They can even reproduce normally under the right circumstances. The only disadvantage to being homosexual is that queer folk are so hated and despised by fools and bigots. Oh, and let's not forget the cowards, people so terrified of their own 'latent' homosexuality that they bash other gay people to show the world how macho, heterosexual and Godly they are.

If only the rest of us would leave queer folk alone, they'd do just fine.

==========================================

*This may be how folk wisdom of blaming mothers for their queer sons originated. Possibly women with one copy of the 'homosex gene' exhibit certain types of behaviour towards their sons, which other people (including the good Doctor Freud) could observe. To a psychologist in the pre-molecular biology era, such behaviour would suggest that homosexuality resulted from childhood conditioning. Many people still believe this. It's not true.



[edit on 28-10-2007 by Astyanax]

Instincts are not learnt


Sorry, Throbber; this is incorrect.

Instincts are not learnt. They are inborn.


You are talking about a conditioned response, which is something else altogether.

Pleas excusse me this is my first post and i had to make a account for this
I would like to just interject my view or should i say question how could homsexuality be respected as anything less then a psycological disorder if you look at the science of it the facts are homosexuals would of died out in the begining of man because one of the things no one has said is there is no way for true homosexuals to have a child and so how would this gene make it through the ages without being a recesive almost virus like trait that would hinder the NATURAL way and expectations of life.

Not that i am trying ot put a negative on the homosexual lifestyle wich is in all respects a choice you have the freedom to live but to try and force people to change the view that was givin to us by god the fact a man and a women can onley reproduce is wrong and to lie ot ourselfs that this is some how a gene is worng also that would put homosexuality in the same boat as retardation.

Since the begining of time things have changed the majority of races majority of fat people majority of people that are hated has changed but thay all share one thing that there are so many elements effecting them but one thing is diffrent for homosexuals wich is the natural way of life is a man and a women and theres no way around that thus the majority will always be straight people this is not a human response it is nature making homosexuals a minority set in place by nature wich in my eyes kinda says homosexuals could be looked at as a deficiency i mean i belive humans can express them selfs anyways thay want but there are topics in life that cant be changed becuase of NATURE you will always feel this way i mean i guess we should let pedophiles have a perade with some of the logic i have heard concerning sexuality being a genetic ideal

reply to post by jwbmore101

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Welcome to ATS brother. You do bring up a good point regarding the gene being hereditary. I think that only time and research will tell us more about this homosexual preferance. Plain and simple, we just don't know enough about it yet.

Thank you for the welcome and I agree there is not enough science for me to be correct either.Also a negative i personally hold against the homosexual comunity is the resentment and guilt thay would put on the so called "normal" people to the extent of things like this where my child will now grow up in a world were speaking his mind on a personal subject such as this will be effected becuase now it is some how wrong to belive homosexuality is not equal to being straight or to have a problem with it.Personally i have nothing against human endulgence wich is pretty much what homosexuality is becuase in the end we all are born with no preconception we make our own decisions to follow or passions or not to just becuase thay like men do not mean thay have lisps and wear cloths to stand out and make them selfs diffrent.This is part of my point that homosexuality and being gay seem to two diffrent things and that is were most of the prejudice come in that straight men see homosexuals as trying to A define them selfs by their sexuality and to some how belittle the natural order of things that being a man and a women truly onley interact in the natural pursuit to reproduce and love and all that came after wich mean we made it and what is homosexuality then more then a love of the male body or just your signifigant other there is no end result of a child onley endulgence in what YOU want not what is SOPOSE to happen.forcing the rest of the world to accept and sympathise with people on a subject of endulgence like this is wrong you can like men and in the end be accepted becuase when im in the bedroom my sexuality stays there.One thing is undeniable the sexuality of a man come down to the choice to be sexual becuase when you like a man it is not the same desire to procreate like normal men have it is the endulgence of something maybe is in you head but is logicaly flawed I mean like I said before pedophiles necropheliacs all of that is a form of sexuality and im sure there are so many of them in the world that we not onley dont accept but punish for good reason but homosexuals are the onley ones who feel like right to try and change the world for their benifet and to compare there struggle with the likes of blacks or other minoritys in wich there is no escape is selfish and wrong because you buy into your own culture and can pass anyway you want its onley one you make it obvious that you are homosexual are you singled out.maybe it is genetic but its your own secret and your CHOICE to live yoru own life or Come out of the closet and live that lifestyle especiallyt when you chose to speak like a women and focus on womens fashion and all that sterotypical traits that seem to me more fact everyday so your trying to tell me the lisp is genetic?

No.

There is nothing "undeniable" about sexuality being a choice.

I didn't choose to be gay. You didn't choose to be straight.

I have never, ever been attracted to women.

I'm not indulging anything. I'm a complete virgin.


I know plenty of gays who acted flamboyantly before coming out. And always have.


And as for gays comparing their plight to that of other minorities- sure, it's not dead accurate. But it's not completely false. Minorities were oppressed because of their outward appearance. Gays for what was inside. In some ways, that's just as bad- being forced to live a lie. So many gays who are sent to brainwashers to "turn straight" come out completely screwed up mentally, and usually depressed and suicidal.

It is only within the last fifty years that is was made legal to engage in homosexual sex in many countries. Many states in the USA do not have laws protecting against discrimination based on sexual preference in employment. Adoption by gay couples is also illegal in many states.

Sure, it may not be slavery or Jim Crowe laws. But it's still discrimination. Gays were thrown into the concentration camps, too.... and they were forced to stay IN the camps for breaking the German law against homosexuality after the camps were liberated.

Maybe so but that still does not answer the question of homosexuality being a deficiency or a negative for the fact we punish pedophiles and necropheliacs and what not for their sexual preference in wich your logic was genetic and are now being told that thay are monsters and all the homosexuals are juts living their lives.Also if you are a vigin then right now you are just labeling yourself gay even if you feel onley attraction for men that is still something that you subconciously come to through the way you were rasied and the things you value unlike a man and a women who are attracted subconciously by more natural motives like reproducing wich is where love and all that came from a man and a women and the relationship between the family.It is undeniable that the image today of the homosexual comunity go out of their way to single them selfs out and be diffrent and then lay guilt on normal people and wonder why thay go through strife when a homosexual could go through their whole life with out letting anyone know their gay but their family and signifigant other.I just dont see how homosexuality could be anything less then a choice when sexuality in life is a choice and to say that we will automaticaly develop attractions to any one catagory of things is kinda stupid when the homosexual gene could never be hereditary or it would of died out so it would have to be like a viruse or deficiency.Lastly the flamboyant behaivor is also unexplainable like the gay men on television that look like women it is all a choice and the way thay talk is not how thay naturally would speak if thay never heard that before.

Maybe so but that still does not answer the question of homosexuality being a deficiency or a negative for the fact we punish pedophiles and necropheliacs and what not for their sexual preference in wich your logic was genetic and are now being told that thay are monsters and all the homosexuals are juts living their lives.Also if you are a vigin then right now you are just labeling yourself gay even if you feel onley attraction for men that is still something that you subconciously come to through the way you were rasied and the things you value unlike a man and a women who are attracted subconciously by more natural motives like reproducing wich is where love and all that came from a man and a women and the relationship between the family.It is undeniable that the image today of the homosexual comunity go out of their way to single them selfs out and be diffrent and then lay guilt on normal people and wonder why thay go through strife when a homosexual could go through their whole life with out letting anyone know their gay but their family and signifigant other.I just dont see how homosexuality could be anything less then a choice when sexuality in life is a choice and to say that we will automaticaly develop attractions to any one catagory of things is kinda stupid when the homosexual gene could never be hereditary or it would of died out so it would have to be like a viruse or deficiency.Lastly the flamboyant behaivor is also unexplainable like the gay men on television that look like women it is all a choice and the way thay talk is not how thay naturally would speak if thay never heard that before.

I was brought up in the church. I was told homosexuality is a sin....and so on. However, as I became an adult and was able to use my own brain and develop my own opinions and do my own research....I now have no issues with people who are homosexuals. I have issues w/ the "in your face" ones though. LOL

With that said. I believe some people are born this way and others choose. That is just based on people I know and things they have told me from their own experiences. IMO...to each thier own. Doesnt affect my life at all. And I have had some awesome gay friends

I am straight. I love men However, I have also found myself attracted to some women - in the same sense I would be attracted to a man. Im not bisexual....I guess I just look at people and form attractions based on them as a person. I could choose to be with a woman or a man - its my choice. But I choose to be with men because of the person that I am attracted to at the time. Does that make sense at all?

With all of THAT said (LOL)....how does one explain someone who is literally bisexual in every sense of the word? Are they born that way or are do they choose it?

I think both. Is both even an option anymore? LOL

I believe that the part where you asked about whether or not it makes sense is because you admire the person, rather than feel attracted to.

Indeed, i suppose that attraction is a form of admiration - in that your admiring their physical qualities as opposed to their personality traits, unless you can be attracted to a person's personality, of course.

As for bisexuality, it certainly adds fuel to the flames of criticism when you think about it (which is why i prefer not to, to be honest).

I could barely read your post but i think I can understand what you are saying. Their is a HUGE difference between 2 adult males haveing consentsual sex and someone having sex with a dead body or a child. Big difference.




So men and women are attracted to eachother because of more natural motives like reproduction? What about those men and women that just want sex, or those who get married and never have kids. You obviously don't know anything about love either, So 2 men can't be in love with eachother because because one is not a woman and one is not a man and they don't have kids?




Normal?
Whats not normal about being homosexual?
It happens, it has always happend, since the begining of the human race.
In your opinion it's not normal, their is not fact stating that homosexuality is not normal it can't be proved or disproved.




Again with your stupid rambling.
You don't know if sexuality is a choice are not, what we do know it is a choice to act on, so if i was atracted to a guy but have never done anything with him or anyother guy does that make me homosexual, did i choose to be attracted to this guy, no, it's called a crush, it happens.

Oh and about homosexuality being a virus or defiecency? where did you come up with that, where are your sources? The reason for being 'homosexual' is still unknown, so right now you are just spatting random b-s.

And I would have gave you more credit if you would have spelled a little better.

reply to post by jwbmore101

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Did you read the first of my two posts immediately above yours?

Did you understand it?

If you did, you would have understood how a gene for homosexuality could be inherited.

There's homosexual variations all throughout nature. I think the add makes an incredible point on the origin of one's own sexuality. These people are still being demonized because of their orientation, which let me assure you, is of no choice for those who are truly homosexual.

As far as the add is concerned, I think this was perfect execution. Look how many people are treating this with "outrage" and "disgust." They're not exploiting a helpless baby, or anything irrational or completely out of context as that, but making a statment that seem to have folks talking.

I think this is a wake up call to grow up a little bit. Instead of trying to "FIGHT!!!!!!" any point regarding a certain issue, delievered by anyone "group," you all should analyze it's true meaning.

It's obvious that those who are opposed to homosexuality are very combative but with ulterior reasoning. "It's this!" "It's that!" No, it's you and your ignorant perception of what is a truth, an absolute, that is commonly found everywhere else in life.

Let's grow.