The Devil of MKULTRA

Greetings once again Mr. Marrs,

I would really like to hear your opinion concerning the validity of the cases of Ritual Abuse and the belief that certain elements of the Intelligence Community play a major role in their perpetration.

It just seems a little too coincidental that a lot of these allegations seemed to crop up at Military Base Day-Care centres, or the alleged perpetrators had ties to the Intelligence Community.

Has there been a massive cover-up of what could possibly be the most horrendous foray into the field of mind-control?

I am sure you are quite aware of the many cases I am refering to, so I won't tie up too much of your reading time.

Thank you,
Bubba











[edit on 25/10/2007 by Beelzebubba]

Howdy Bubba,

You are asking about one of the darkest unrevealed secrets yet -- ritual abuse by government officials, both civilian and military.

I will have to admit that I have not delved into this issue in any real depth. But I have enough in my files and have spoken to several persons who claim to have been subjected to this to simply write it all off. The problem is that you have a number of persons making these claims but there is scant hard evidence. And due to the bizarreness of their stories, it is easy to dismiss them as delusional or cranks. The so-called "watchdog" news media won't touch this story even though there is some evidence. If you really want to pursue this issue, a good starting place would be the book "The Franklin Cover-Up" by John DeCamp. I think it's available on Amazon. But be prepared to be shocked and disgusted and, worse yet, be prepared to hide out. If any of this is true, the people involved will not stop at murder to keep this from the public.

Jim Marrs

i have spoken with more than a few people that have told me similar stories. Jim, I agree that some of them are so bizarre that they are easy to dismiss, however I mentioned that exact point to a family member of an alleged mind control victim, and he put a new perspective on it.

For example, one event involved a room full of people dressed up like big bird, the president, easter bunny, etc. while bizarre rituals were taking place. That way, when the children are recounting their stories, it comes back sounding like strung-together kid's nonsense.

I wasn't convinced either way, but I thought some of the stories I had heard were ridiculous, until he put them into that kind of light. It was long conversation, and I got to ask just about any question i could think of.

I am also fully aware of how easy it is to implant false memories and experiences in people, especially children - so the defense for the McMartin case is still fairly reasonable.

The fact that there is so much unknown about all of this makes it even more intriguing. It's also a very taboo subject to look into with any real depth.

I absolutely wish there was a public forum I could tell some stories about...

That book by John DeCamp is a must read, for many more reasons than just ritual abuse. He gets into so many topics, I wish he would put out another book.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by scientist]

i think the intelligence communities are just 'covering up' of one-of-their-own in any of the several cases that have reached the light-of-day...

its not like the whole Intel or CIA or any other agency is satanic or pedophile or uttermost debauched throught their community...
The commands just do not want those rogue/undisciplined agents
running around (doing their depraved antics) giving the agency and all associated with it, a bad name.


you say devil= as in a seperate entity doing evil.......
i say the 'devil' is the darker + baser animal instincts that all men can have, being embraced, glorified, and elevated to accepted behavior among persons in society.

Thank you for your reply Jim. Thanks also to scientist and St Udio for their input.
I have indeed read 'The Franklin Coverup'. It was the book that started me on this very strange and frightening trail. I'm sure we all remember the cases that were given air back in the '80's on 'Geraldo', 'Oprah' et al. Then came Mr. De Camps book.

I find it very curious that the SRA furor of the 1980's was quickly stamped out and ridiculed into silence just as publications like 'The Franklin Coverup' hit the presses. It seems that as long as people were searching for Satanic Covens in their towns (à la 'Race With the Devil') and not looking at the involvement of their own government in these horrendous crimes the speculation and revelations could continue.

Once pieces of the puzzle were starting to be put in place with serious research, in came the (self-professed) professional nay-sayers. We have El Paso reporter Debbie Nathan, who seemed to prefer the idea of locking up the children that gave testimony at McMartin and went on to publish work debunking the whole idea of SRA.

At times it is difficult to tell whether Nathan is a "skeptic" or an apologist of sexual abuse. "Most pedophilia," she contends, "consists of caressing and fondling. for most children, these experiences appear to be at best confusing, at worst traumatic. But others seem to willingly participate, and some adults recall that while still legally minors they accepted, even welcomed, sex with grown-ups." Nathan doesn't condemn the abuser. After all, "compared to the abuses of a child protection movement gone mad, could incest be any worse?" Alex Cockburn is a Nathan supporter, and has on occasion gotten caught up in her pro-pedophilic obfuscations, as in this diatribe from The Nation for March 8, 1993:

As a Miami-based anthropologist, Rafael Martinez, consultant to the Dade County Medical Examiner's Office, told Nathan, in traditional Latin American cultures "kissing and hugging is common with children up to three or four years old. It is common for females to kiss children all over the place ­ including on the genitals.

The practice of kissing children on the genitals may be traditional in some cultures, but it is frowned upon by the Manhattan Beach preschool licensing board.

Link

We Have Alex Cockburn another journalist who vigorously supports Nathan is the son a British spy and a defender of the Warren Commission. We have Elizabeth Loftus, member of the infamous False Memory Syndrome Foundation, who continues to try and prove to the world that false memories can be implanted into children with great ease (Telling children that they saw Bugs Bunny at Disney World is a far cry from memories of excruciating abuse). We had the Paul and Shirley Eberle who were definately professionals in the field of child abuse as they published the seedy 1970's child porn rag 'Finger'.

Finally we have the insidious False Memory Syndrome Foundation itself. Staffed by an assortment of accused paedophiles and CIA spooks.

Martin T. Orne, CIA researcher, an original board member of the FMSF. A man who had his fingers in many MK ULTRA pies. Hypno-programming experiments (the elicitation of "anti-social" behaviour, dissolving memory etc...) funded by the CIA while he was at Cornell University.

The infamous Louis Jolyon West another past board member whose CIA career runs all the way back to his inteview with Jack Ruby.

The "Amazing" James Randi, professional debunker and CIA consultant.

Then we have the illustrious founder of the FMSF, Ralph Underwager, a man who just couldn't keep his mouth shut to Dutch paedophile magazine Paidika

Peter and Pamela Freyd (Pamela's name being the only one now mentioned on the FMSF's website) were accused of abuse by their daughter, Jennifer. Peter Freyd was known to tell people that his daughter was brain damaged. I guess she proved him wrong when she went on to become a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. Pamela sought the intervention of Dr. Harold Lief, a former major in the Army Medical Corps and a member of the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania (He became a member in 1968, when federally funded behavioural modification experiments at Holmesburg Prison were in full swing). Lief and Orne had collaborated in the past in the field of Hypnotic Programming. Needless to say Lief went on to become an advisor to the FMSF.
FMSF

The FMSF brings me, naturally, to the McMartin case.
Scientist, the case at the McMartin Pre-school was a classic example of a media white-wash, with the involvement of people like Debbie Nathan, Elizabeth Loftus, Abby Mann and (unbelievably) Oliver Stone.

We must remember that the McMartin trial ended in a hung jury. The jurors were left in no doubt that the children at McMartin had been abused. But defining who exactly was responsible for the abuse was undetermined.

According to researcher Alex Constantine, Charles Buckey, the man that built the Pre-School was an operative with Air America. He was also the father of the key defendant, Ray Buckey.

The main issue that forced the collapse of the case in the public's eye was the failure by the DA's office to find the "tunnels" that the children maintained they were abused in. The media was strangely silent when evidence of these tunnels was found.

The results of the survey by Ground penetrating Radar proved consistent with discoveries of the subsequent excavations, all of which confirmed not only the basic descriptions of children but also specific details of location, interior features and putative function.

The McMartin Tunnel Project confirms that a functional pattern of tunnels once existed under the McMartin Preschool, that the tunnels provided access outside the walls of the structure, that they must have been constructed after the structure was built in 1966, and that they were subsequently completely repacked with extraneous soil and implanted artifacts at some time prior to May, 1990. While this project had no way of determining who dug these tunnels, or for what purpose, the discoveries stand in stark contrast to the skeptical position that the children only imagined what they described as activities underground.

Stickel Report

What I wonder is; Are the cults involved in this abuse the construct of the Intelligence wing of the US Government. Cooked up when George Estabrooks did his research into the creation of "Super Spies" and discovered that the shattering of the human mind was the best method in reaching his goal of the perfect "Manchurian Candidate".

"We will see that emotional shock produces exactly the same results as hypnotism!"

- George Estabrooks

"multiple personality [can] be both caused and cured by hypnotism. Remember that war is a grim business. Suppose we deliberately set up that condition of multiple personality to further the ends of military intelligence"

- George Estabrooks

everyone [can] be thrown into the deepest state of hypnotism by the use of what [I] termed the Russian method - no holds barred, deliberate disintegration of the personality by psychic torture... The subject might be left a mental wreck but war is a grim business

-George Estabrooks

Or are they something that has been with us for many centuries? What Freud referred to:

"we may have before us a residue of a primaeval sexual cult".

Link
Something that the Intelligence wing of the Govt tapped into for their own nefarious ends.

Besides John DeCamp, I must acknowledge Alex Constantine and David McGowan for their tireless work in this field.


[edit on 19/1/2008 by Beelzebubba]

It is interesting to see the way Wikipedia treats the Franklin Coverup. There have been allegations in the past that articles in Wikipedia are sanitized for mainstream consumption. Basically they write it off as a hoax and the reason given is that a Grand Jury said so, even though the findings of the Grand Jury, as stated in Wikipedia sound very vague. Here's the article:

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is the English television documentary (Conspiracy of Silence) dealing with the case that was yanked off the air in the US.

Google Video Link

This is a really important subject and I'm glad it's been brought up, I hope Mr. Marrs can educate us even more on the topic.

I don't mean to de-rail the thread so I'll just post a new one on the Ted Gunderson investigation (related to MKUltra much like the Cathy O'Brien case).

Satanism, (including child sacrifice), mind control, etc. are real and go on at an organized level within our society, government, media, celebrities, musicians: you wouldn't believe how heavy it is. Click my name and take a peek at the Gunderson story if you'd like.

[edit on 22-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]

I posted a thread on paedophilia symbols and their use in cultural artefacts which swiftly got hijacked and derailed big time so hopefully this thread won't suffer the same fate.

I think the Lee Oswald / Harvey Oswald situation is an example of the real life Manchurian Candidate stuff, as is the recent murder in Canberra Australia where the perpetrator has been the beneficiary of a total coverup where although he was the clear suspect he was allowed to flee and live on the run supposedly for years before being caught and returned to Canberra where softball handling resulted him in once again getting let off the hook.

To bring the military dimension into this, here is a link to a well known (in certain circles) interview with ex-military wife, Kay Griggs.

In the interview she talks about sexual recruitment and homosexual initiation in the military, as well as sexual blackmail and war in the service of the arms trade. Her husband, now deceased, was in the middle of this stuff, involved in the the dirty tricks department of clandestine military operations in Europe.

Google Video Link

I might be going a little overboard on the video input to the thread. Just watching the videos linked already requires a significant allocation of time, but I wanted to include one more video link because it might be helpful for people to have these links all in one place.

The RFK assassination is one where evidence of MKUltra style mind control processes are taken seriously by a lot of people. The video linked below is an excellent re-investigation of the RFK murder and actually includes recordings of hypnotic regression sessions conducted with Sirhan Sirhan.

I think listening to these sessions is the closest ordinary people will ever get to actually witnessing the kind of mental phenomena that were featured in the movie, The Manchurian Candidate. There is more to the story of the film, which is an excellent one, than the mind contol aspect, but the regression sessions would be of great interest to people in this thread, I think.

Google Video Link

[edit on 22-1-2008 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
To bring the military dimension into this, here is a link to a well known (in certain circles) interview with ex-military wife, Kay Griggs. . . .

Her husband, now deceased . . .

As far as I know her husband is not deceased. Apologies for this error due to a faulty recollection of the tape from an earlier viewing. She nearly always speaks of him in the past tense but that is because he left her.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by ipsedixit]

Aside from the mind control aspect there is the blackmail angle. The targeting of pedophiles within the political system.

The Spence case is the obvious one that springs to mind.

Isn't it strange that there seem to be so many people in positions of power or perceived power/authority that are drawn into the world of pedophilia.
It is a known fact that pedophilia, just like rape is more a drive to have complete power over the victim than any real kind of sexual longing (despite what NAMBLA might say).
I'm no psychologist, but can we make an educated guess that many of those that are psychologically disposed toward royalism, authoritarianism, ceremony, and pageantry are satisfying their own need to feel that they are in effect overpowering those that they are given authority over. What does this say of these kind of people and their sexual leanings.

I would love to see a professional psychological overview of a broad spectrum of people in positions of power in many different fields just to see how this idea would pan out.

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
It is a known fact that pedophilia, just like rape is more a drive to have complete power over the victim than any real kind of sexual longing (despite what NAMBLA might say).

I think pedophilia is the nadir of depravity. I think it arises in people who are sated of every other kind of sexual experience. It is the deepest sort of self love.

There is a mysterious reason why everyone will stare at a baby in a stroller on a bus. We all go into a light trance looking at the newest version of our most innocent self. That being exists at the center and foundation of everyone's nervous system in a very pleasant place.

Holy people get there after a long journey of spiritual discipline, (Think Taoism, think the golden child.) but the depraved can get there after a long journey of self consuming dissipation.

I'm not talking here about people whose early sexual experiences pervert them. I'm talking about the rich and powerful who have finally come to be depraved. My two cents worth.

I think we are all getting into separate topics here that may not all relate to each other or if so, only tangentially. Pedophilia is one thing, various forms of sex outside hetreosexuality is another, ritual abuse may, or may not, tie into Satanism and such activity apparently maybe found in certain high-ranking and powerful circles. All this could conceivably be lumped under occultism but some of this activity is clearly not -- your friendly neighborhood pedophile for example.

It has been substantiated that most major NASA space launches, including the Apollo missions, were scheduled in accordance with the alignment of the stars rather than any scientific basis. Likewise, it has been demonstrated that the deaths of four Kennedys (Joe, Jr in 1944, JFK in 1963, RFK in 1968 and JFK, Jr. in 1999) occurred within a common astrological timing parameter. These extraordinary facts indicate that someone in a very highly-placed and powerful position (he/she can set the launch dates for NASA missions) is using astology as their guide for actions. Now, it is not necessary for us to believe in such things. The point is that someone with great power DOES believe in such things.

And if this sort of occult belief can be demonstrated behind NASA missions and Kennedy deaths, it is certainly no huge leap of logic to suggest that such people would partake in rituals, involving blood, children, whatever.

A close study of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion" (See pp. 146-153 in "Rule by Secrecy), that Illuminati document that was hoaxed by the Czarist police into what is now believed to be an anti-Jewish document, makes clear that no one must be allowed of hold public office who is not susceptible to blackmail. Protocol 8 states: "We shall put [government power] in the hands of persons whose past and reputations are such that between them and the people lies an abyss, persons who, in case of disobedience to our instructions, must face criminal charges..."

This describes a powerful control mechanism -- entice someone with promises of wealth and power, then bring them into dark occult rituals that grow more and more depraved and, at last, you have a leader who is susceptible to blackmail and totally under your control. The few innocents who manage to slip out of this system can be understandably dismissed as mentally incompetent since no self-respecting Middle Class American can possibly bring themselves to believe that such things exist. The corporate mass media will not dare touch on this subject for fear of alienating its Middle Class viewers as well as its corporate bosses, some of whom might be involved.

I know of officials both in state and national government who would like to see this issue fully investigated but they are stymied by resistance from the very top. Do the names Bush and Clinton ring a bell?

Jim Marrs