Iran to buy 24 J-10 jet fighters from China

Iran has signed a deal with China to buy two squadrons of J-10 fighter planes that are based on Israeli technology, the Russian news agency Novosti reported yesterday.

The 24 aircraft are based on technology and components provided to China by Israel following the cancellation of the Lavi project in the mid-1980s. The engines of the J-10 are Russian-made.

The total cost of the planes is estimated at $1 billion, and deliveries are expected between 2008 and 2010.

More @ www.haaretz.com...

This will surely provide the capabilities of the Iranian Air Force a much needed boost at a time when war is not very unlikely. However, this purchase IMHO will still not dent the apparent superiority of the Israeli Air Force.

The sale of jets that China could have never have developed if not for Israel, to a nation hostile to Israel just reflects on the reckless if not shameless policies adopted by China.

[edit on 24/10/07 by Stealth Spy]

It woul dnot be the first time the Isrealis had some system they developed and sold come back to haunt them. on the flip side, they would know its capabilites pretty well.

2 Squadrons.......... The IAF raid into Syria have many in Russia and China (not to mention the ME) really scrambling. The IAF using non stealth a/c were able to penatrate well into Syrian territory and make a strike despite new defences etc.

However the IIAF has one thing on its side in a conflict with Isreal.: Distance. The IAF will be hard pressed to strike that far without direct US aid.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

This will surely provide the capabilities of the Iranian Air Force a much needed boost at a time when war is not very unlikely.

Really, where have you been for the past five years? A lot of ATS members would disagree.
Iran is surely under greater threat now than any time in the past 10 years

Interesting, an indication that the short lived and over sold 250 Flanker deal between Russia and Iran was nothing more than hot air, that story seems to have dropped completely. This deal is more realistic, and to me it's an early indication that China is going down Russia's (USSR's) path. Sell to anyone with currency who opposes the West.

As far as Israel goes, it does not offer Iran any great long range heavy strike capability but it might prove useful in the multi role mission. Most notably in the air defense and anti ship roles…

reply to post by WestPoint23


I think they are both out of each others range for practical missions. I really see them using the J-10's in an air defence role over thier territory.

Why? The USN and USAF with thier C3I infrastructure already in place would hav eno trouble carving them up. However, over thier own territory, covered by thier own SAMS, may give them a better chance, albiet a small one, of providing a meaningfull air defence of selected key sites.

2 squadrons are not that much of a threat. Its the follow on purchases that we should be wary of.

reply to post by SmokeyJo


i think you need to re-read that quote. He is saying that iran is under threat now.

reply to post by FredT


yes, 24 is not threatening amount, but Iran will make any amount more they want by licence
Beijing gov won't care copyright that US did

The J-10 is known as the "Vigorous Dragon" to the West... Who comes up with these names? Flanker, flogger, foxbat?!

[edit on 24-10-2007 by wingman77]

reply to post by emile


To an extent emile. Iran has shown ingenuity in keeping aircraft flying. But the J-10 is new and single sourced and unless I am way off base, ian is the only export customer so far no?

So while you can make some things, other items like avionics are very very hard to duplicate as are the weapons to hang from them. So the Chinese government will have alot more controll over Iran's mass producing as many of them as they want.

Originally posted by FredT
To an extent emile. Iran has shown ingenuity in keeping aircraft flying. But the J-10 is new and single sourced and unless I am way off base, ian is the only export customer so far no?

Nope.
Pakistan is a confirmed customer since way back in 2006.
35-50 J-10s I believe..

Originally posted by wingman77
The J-10 is known as the "Vigorous Dragon" to the West... Who comes up with these names? Flanker, flogger, foxbat?!

[edit on 24-10-2007 by wingman77]

Vigorous Dragon was translated from Chinese name 猛龙
猛- Vigorous
龙- Dragon

rest of three you mentioned was called by NATO I think

cheers

Originally posted by FredT
2 Squadrons.......... The IAF raid into Syria have many in Russia and China (not to mention the ME) really scrambling. The IAF using non stealth a/c were able to penatrate well into Syrian territory and make a strike despite new defences etc.

Apparently that was bogus - the new Russian systems have not been delivered to Syria yet.


Also, the reports have been assuming that Iran has given Syria its Tor systems - with no evidence to support that whatsoever.

Adding to the above,

The site was in the north-eastern region of Syria, away from Israel, closer to Iran.
IIRC, from a sam envelope pic I saw a few weeks back on ATS, this region has little or no SAM cover. Most of the SAM sites are concentrated in the west and south west on the Lebanese and Israeli borders.

Let me try and dig up that thread..

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
The sale of jets that China could have never have developed if not for Israel, to a nation hostile to Israel just reflects on the reckless if not shameless policies adopted by China.

this part made me laugh

the United states gives Israel tech
Israel then Sell it to China (which the US has arms embargoes against)
China then builds off that and sells the etc to countries that are on the naughty list of the US, example Iran which is also a foe of Israel

see the irony?

reply to post by kilcoo316


I will have to do some digging. Last weeks AWST said otherwise, but maybe I misread it.

reply to post by Daedalus3



Must have missed that one But the Chinese still remain the single source for the aircraft.

reply to post by kilcoo316


Actually the discussion was centered around the Pantsir-S1 systems that Syria bought from Russia a few months ago. However overall I guess we can include Syria's other SAM systems as well. If this site was significant enough to be targeted by the IAF then it would have had some form of radar and missile coverage, no matter where it was located.

As far as Iran goes, they've always known they can't deny the US air superiority or effectively counter our missile forces so it should not be too much of a surprise.

And here is an article discussing the a possible site of the suspected Syrian nuclear instillation.

Article.

PDF File (Map - Info)

[edit on 25-10-2007 by WestPoint23]

Another analysis ...

The sale of the J-10 to Iran would constitute a betrayal of Israel’s extensive aid to China’s military modernization efforts during the 1980s and 1990s. Originally encouraged by the Carter Administration in the late 1970s, in the effort to encourage China’s strategic tilt toward the West and against the Soviet Union, Israel sold China a wide range of army, electronic, naval and aerospace technology. However, after the June 1989 Tiananmen Massacre, when the U.S. and Europe placed arms embargoes on China, Israel refused to follow suit. Many Israeli officials supported continued military technical sales to China not just to make profits necessary to fund future military products, but also because they felt that such sales would persuade China not to sell advanced weapons to Israel’s enemies. The sales, which continued even as the United States objected, probably also represented an Israeli effort to develop her own independent relationship with China, that could begin to free her from dependence on the United States.

At the time of Tiananmen Israel was likely near the height of its involvement in the Chengdu J-10 fighter program. Israel had agreed to sell China fighter aircraft technology from its Lavi (Young Lion) indigenous fighter program, which was aided and subsidized by the U.S.(40 to 90 percent of its $1.5 billion development cost), until Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger became convinced the Lavi would pose unneeded competition to U.S. fighters. The J-10’s anhedral wing and its empennage reflect the Lavi’s design influence while other sources note that Israel provided technology to assist China’s development of “fly-by-wire” or computer control technology to enable greater stability and maneuverability. In 2005 a high Russian official told the author that during his visit to Chengdu’s J-10 development building in the early 1990s he saw wall posters written in Hebrew.

Russian assistance also made a substantial contribution to the J-10’s eventual success, to include sale of a specific variant of the Saturn AL-31 high-power turbofan engine, design assistance to accommodate the engine in the J-10 airframe, plus assistance with the J-10’s radar.

In addition, Israel sold China co-production rights for its Python-3 short-range air-to-air missile in the 1982, with the Chinese designator PL-8. China promptly copied it as the PL-9, with different fins, and later added a helmet sighting capability. U.S. sources have expressed to the author concern that Israel may have sold the more deadly hyper-maneuverable 4th generation Python-4 to China. At the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow China’s AVIC-1 consortium featured a promotional video which gave a very brief glimpse of an AAM with characteristics very similar to the Python-4. Israeli industry reps at that show would not comment on that missile’s similarity to the Python-4. However, Louyang officials have told the author and others that they are working on an advanced short-range AAM.

China’s early 1990s assistance to Iran’s nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs likely mean that Tehran never took seriously Israel’s plan to separate her from her Chinese ally. China’s demand for Iran’s oil plus its desire to force Iran’s Islamic radical leadership to ignore the plight of China’s Muslims sealed its decision to support Iran’s Mullah government. Israel and the United States now face an Iranian-Chinese alliance having a clear military character. China now appears prepared to use Israeli technology to help Iran defend its nuclear weapons program aimed at Israel and the United States.

www.familysecuritymatters.org...

That is a very bad bad bad bad bad lie because it says #ing russia biult the J-10 but NOOOOOOOOOO China bilit it STOP making lies russia .

www.abovetopsecret.com...

if im right in saying the site bombed is outside the SA-5 area