Discovery Launches at 11:38 EDT. Expects to Reach and Dock With ISS in 44 Hours!, page 18

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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:31 PM by 1553B
I'm appalled by what I've seen in this thread. I haven't time to correct every last one of the absurd conjectures I've read so I'll just lay it out as simply as possible for you people: The shuttle is not visiting secret space stations and you can prove it to yourself. All the proof you need is on the front of your face - your own eyes. With them you can see the ISS easily. With a simple telescope you can make out the shape quite clearly. Look at the google image search above and notice how you can see the Shuttle and the ISS mated and during docking and undocking phases. Those pictures were taken by AMATEUR astronomers with basic equipment. If the Shuttle is visiting secret space stations, why can't we see it doing so? Why can't we see the secret space stations in orbit by themselves? -1553B
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:38 PM by St Udio
Originally posted by StudioGuy[ Yeah, you got me there. This was totally apples and bananas. welcome to you, StudioGuy, you could well have said 'road apples' and 'plantians' but that might have been lost.... (just as the 'Studio' lingo is unreconized) keep puttin it out there
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:41 PM by buddhasystem
reply to post by 1553B Well, it's John Lear's board, as you may have noticed. If you have the patience to study it in any amount of detail, you'll surely notice that it's not uncommon for some posters to dispense with observable and indeed visible facts in favor of highly exotic, impossible to prove theories. For example, how can you be sure that what those amateurs recorded was not a giant hologram produced in space by evil NASA conspirators.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:47 PM by 1553B
Originally posted by johnlear Thanks for the post FP. The former member of ATS did not debunk anyone. What was posted was an alleged schedule to be performed after undocking from the ISS. It was just plain silly. It was an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows anything about the requirements for reentry. How so? There are tens of thousands of aerospace engineers in the US alone. Most of them have at least taken one course in orbital mechanics. Clearly, these people know a thing or two about requirements for reentry. Why aren't they up in arms? Why aren't they coming out of the woodwork and stating that the schedules posted on spaceflightnow.com, floridatoday.com, nasaspaceflight.com are bunk? The obvious answer is that the timelines aren't bunk. Orbital mechanics drives the duration of assent and rendezvous as well as deorbit and landing. Like I stated in my previous post, you can prove this for yourself. This will be harder, however - you'll need to go get yourself a degree in aerospace engineering.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 06:51 PM by 1553B
Originally posted by buddhasystem reply to post by 1553B Well, it's John Lear's board... it's not uncommon for some posters to dispense with observable and indeed visible facts in favor of highly exotic, impossible to prove theories. Against all reason and evidence to the contrary, the observable and self-provable is disregarded for what amount to junk? "Deny Ignorance?" More like "Embrace Ignorance."
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 07:56 PM by johnlear
Originally posted by 1553B Why can't we see the secret space stations in orbit by themselves? Thanks for the post 1553B. Here's a site where you can see these magnificent secret space stations. Some are just plain awesome. www.thelivingmoon.com... Thanks for your input and your post.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 08:05 PM by COOL HAND
Originally posted by johnlear Thanks for the post 1553B. Here's a site where you can see these magnificent secret space stations. Some are just plain awesome. john, The majority of them are just plain fakes. Look at the pixelation on the edges of them, they were either pasted into the background or hand drawn and blurred. In addition, the person who took the pics gave us no clues as to where to look for them ourselves. Tell me where to look and I can see it with my own eyes. Till then, I think I will stick to denying ignorance.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 09:05 PM by Laxpla
Wow, those pictures from that reliable site, converted me into a beliver. Hey, John I have some quick questions, which is pure educational to meand others... - Do you think the space stations is some kind of mini soul catcher, which brings the souls back to the moon into the moon soul catcher sanctuary? - Is the space stations a secret refuel station for the 6,000,000 underground population on Mars? I know this question is starting to blend into another topic, but how can 6,000,000 be accuratly counted for if its underground? - If an amateur astromonmer can use his telescope that he bought from walmart to identify these "secret" space stations, then whats the point of them if advarsaries can spot them? Wouldnt they be better public? I by no means am trying to "hate" on you, I'm just trying to debunk some of these claims which offer nothing close to proof. No doubt, you are an brilliant man when it comes to aviation and I respect that.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 10:23 PM by Fett Pinkus
Id like to show this picture of how far away woomera in Australia is from other towns: Woomera Now come back and tell me that they launched secret missions from there without anyone seeing them do so @Zorgon posting pictures and links to your own website doesnt make the pictures any belivabler. Didnt you listen at the baut forums when they pawned you back in August?
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 10:49 PM by weedwhacker
Hello, Let's be civil and show Capt John Lear some respect. This is, after all, his thread. Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree...that's what a forum is for. I'm not an Adminstrator, of course, simply an ATS member who enjoys reading cogent discussions that are pertinent to the subject at hand.
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 10:54 PM by zorgon
Originally posted by Laxpla Wow, those pictures from that reliable site, converted me into a believer. Why thank you - Is the space stations a secret refuel station for the 6,000,000 underground population on Mars? No the refueling stations are separate... They are also fully automated... The SSS however does appear to act as a storage facility for the returning full canisters of lunar generated fluids... which are liquid hydrogen and oxygen for return trips to the moon from LEO (saves hauling it up from Earth) and liquid Helium 3 I am still tracking how the HE3 gets down to Earth... but they do have a modified shuttle capable of rendezvousing with the STS I know this question is starting to blend into another topic, Quite right we covered all this in detail in the other thread but how can 6,000,000 be accurately counted for if its underground? A census - If an amateur astromonmer can use his telescope that he bought from walmart to identify these "secret" space stations, then whats the point of them if advarsaries can spot them? He can't identify them.. He asked at a NASA spacecraft site what they might be and was promptly tossed off and all his posts deleted... we covered that too... He never said UFO or 'secret space station' he merely asked what these SATELLITES might be and he was booted for bringing up UFO's I'm just trying to debunk some of these claims which offer nothing close to proof. Try harder... its not working Boeing's Space Gas Station NASA's design Delivering Lunar Generated Fluid to Earth Orbit Using an External Tank Specially fitted Shuttle for LEO to Moon transfer... Storage tanks on Space Station Compartments of transport... Storage layout ABSTRACT A method and apparatus are provided for delivering lunar generated fluid to Earth orbit from lunar orbit. Transport takes place in an external tank of a shuttle which has been suitably outfitted in Earth orbit for reusable travel between Earth orbit and a lunar orbit. The outfitting of the external tank includes the adding of an engine, an electrical system, a communication system, a guidance system, an aerobraking device, and a plurality of interconnected fluid storage tanks to the hydrogen and oxygen tanks of the external tank. The external tank is then propelled to lunar orbit the first time using Earth based propellant. In lunar orbit, the storage tanks are filled with the lunar generated fluid with the remainder tank volumes filled with lunar generated liquid oxygen and hydrogen which serve as propellants for returning the tank to Earth orbit where the fluid is off-loaded. The remaining lunar generated oxygen and hydrogen is then sufficient to return the external tank to lunar orbit so that a subsequent cycle of fluid delivery is repeated. A space station in a higher Earth orbit is preferably used to outfit the external tank, and a lunar node in lunar orbit is used to store and transfer the fluid and liquid oxygen and hydrogen to the external tank. The lunar generated fluid is preferably 3He. Patent Publication number: US5092545 Publication date: 1992-03-03 Inventor: BUTTERFIELD ANSEL J (US); GOSLEE JOHN W (US) Applicant: NASA (US) Previous NASA refueling module attached to SSS SPACE TRANSPORTATION FOR A LUNAR RESOURCES BASE (LRB) Hubert P. Davis, Starcraft Boosters, Inc. 1032 Military Drive Canyon Lake, TX 78133 (830) xxx-xxxx email: xxxx@xxxx.com This is a report of a work in progress. So far as the author is presently aware, this topic has not been previously addressed. Proprietary work by NASA or others may, however, exist that address similar topics. This work assumes that a base near the South Pole of our Moon will be established for the purpose of exploiting the resources of the Moon; principally the water ice that many believe was discovered by the Clementine and Lunar Prospector satellites. The ice is of particular value as, with the aid of the ample solar resource available nearby, it may become an essentially limitless source of oxygen / hydrogen propellants for continued visitation to and expansion of the base and for the support of additional space exploration missions, including human exploration of Mars. This work placed a total 129 tons initial base for both the in crater and crater rim installations, as well as a 90 tons “marshaling yard” at the Earth Moon L-1 libration point. For launch services, the results of an in house Shuttle Derived Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle study were used. It is called Aquila./ This vehicle can deliver over 50 tons to low Earth orbit from the Kennedy Space Center, using a combination of Space Shuttle and Delta IV Heavy components. A second stage of the Delta IV Heavy vehicle was used to deliver 15 tons payloads from Earth orbit to docking at L-1. By so doing, no “new start” systems are needed beyond those of the L-1 station and the LRB itself, provided the Aquila and Crew Exploration Vehicle have been previously developed. At L-1, three of these once used stages are fitted with landing gear and other elements needed to produce a highly capable Lunar Vehicle and it is refueled from propellants delivered from Earth to place the base and to provide a single visit of a six person crew to aid the robotic operations necessary to produce a fully functional base. If the ground rule is established that “dry” cargo and propellant must be launched separately, 34 launches were required. This will permit over 50% of the launches to launch only propellants. Later missions, using propellants produced by the LRB, show a large net gain in propellants available at L-1. For example, a round trip mission with the CEV results in a net gain of over six tons of propellant at L-1; a cargo delivery nets over 69 tons. Work continues on the “pay-off” phase; that is, further missions making use of the propellants obtained from the shallow “gravity well” of the Moon. Propellants produced on the Moon will only be used from the lunar surface or from L-1; no attempt will be made to deliver them to other locations. That will come, but is “out-of-scope” for the present work. A Mars mission departing from L-1 with mass of 686 tons can be placed on the trans Mars trajectory expending lunar origin propellants and just one of the Lunar Vehicles, requiring an additional 13 Aquila launches. This will permit dual Mars spacecraft to be used for each mission with a 28% mass margin over a single, similar mass vehicle departing from low Earth orbit. www.thelivingmoon.com... Aquila Launch - Marshal Islands two months before Apollo 11 _ jack Arneson Aquila version built by AMROC American Rocket Founder killed in freak accident on deserted road at age 44... AMROC taken over bt SpaceDev Aquila version mentioned in above report from LPI... built by Starcraft Boosters Starcraft Boosters, Inc. is owned by Buzz Aldrin
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 10:59 PM by weedwhacker
Gee, I wish I could read German....and modify my screen...
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 11:08 PM by zorgon
Originally posted by Fett Pinkus @Zorgon posting pictures and links to your own website doesnt make the pictures any belivabler. Didnt you listen at the baut forums when they pawned you back in August? I will tell YOU the same thing I told THEM ALL the images on my website have all the data and links to the ORIGINAL SITES... The same holds true for all documents Since the clippings and enlargements of areas of those images are my own work, where else would I put them? And excerpts from documents with my opinions... where shall I put those? If you are too lazy or too ignorant to look and follow the leads to the original source, that is not my problem. The images in question that you refer to were the Clementine set... Jim Kirk linked to my site... when I came in to the post I pointed DIRECTLY to the NAVY website with the exact co ordinated where the image was found at the NAVY site... This fact was totally ignored by you and the others at that "great and responsible" site and now you drag that in here. I use my website at my expense to host images to save the original sites the immense bandwidth generated by a post at ATS where hundreds of thousand view these images. That is called internet courtesy. But I do not post any anomaly etc until I first have links to the highest res original I can find from an official source... and all my posts include the original source as well. As to BAUT seems that any site that spends days screening your post before allowing it has an agenda... and considering they do lectures and sell books on debunking us... I put them in the same class as Hoagland I thus accept your apology [edit on 13-11-2007 by zorgon]
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 11:17 PM by zorgon
However in a few cases I will not link to the source... As in this case... Your comment on 'liquifying' minerals on the moon is 'right on time'. Our group, presently, is engaged in deep discussion as to modifying the minerals to be harvested, and liquifying (H3, for example) is/has been the subject of much heated discussion. Actually, I suggested (to our group) not so much 'liquifying' ...but 'changing the state' . If you look at some of my patents...you'll note that in these I teach 'change of state' (from liquid to a gas, for example) to accomplish some desired result: Entropy vs Enthalpy, for example. The discussions continue as of this writing, with all suggestions being considered by our group (and others) prior to making recommendations to those within and outside our group. This is a little gem for the supporters I know the skeptics will bristle at this
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reply posted on 13-11-2007 @ 11:23 PM by zorgon
Originally posted by weedwhacker Gee, I wish I could read German.... "PARANOIA only means the REALITY to see clearer than OTHERS"
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reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 12:11 AM by johnlear
Originally posted by Fett Pinkus Id like to show this picture of how far away woomera in Australia is from other towns: Woomera Now come back and tell me that they launched secret missions from there without anyone seeing them do so Thanks for the post FP. Below you will find what is outin the open about Woomera. You can only imagine what goes on there in secret. The Woomera range is huge. RPK plans to establish two launch sites for operating the K-1 reusable aerospace vehicles. Spaceport Woomera is located in Woomera, South Australia, about 470 km (280 miles) north of Adelaide. Test flights and initial commercial operations will be conducted from Spaceport Woomera. Figure 1 below shows an overview of the Australian launch site with initial launch corridors indicated. www.rocketplanekistler.com... www.astronautix.com... Australia's Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) has today launched one of the world's fastest air-breathing engine experiments, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Defence, Mr Peter Lindsay announced. The scramjet engine experiment reached speeds of up to Mach 10, approximately 11,000 km per hour, or ten times the speed of sound. Scramjets are air-breathing supersonic combustion ramjet engines that could make it possible for a two hour flight from Sydney to London. www.space-travel.com... homepage.powerup.com.au... “In its heyday, Woomera was the second busiest spaceport in the world, after Cape Canaveral,” Dr Gorman said. “The USA used Woomera to test components, and to track the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo space programmes Europe launched nine Europa rockets there before moving to French Guiana in the late 1960s. Australian expertise was vital in developing Britain’s Cold War missiles. In those days, people expected that astronaut missions would soon be launched from Woomera, taking Australians into space on a regular basis.” zoharesque.blogspot.com... Thanks again for your input. :
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reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 12:13 AM by Laxpla
Zorgon, Yes it was stated that those pictures were a SSS, non other then John Lear who I quote. There seem to be at least 8 separate space stations. At least one passed through Orion. I don’t know about the rest. Here, check them out for yourself. www.thelivingmoon.com... Thanks for the post. and Thanks for the post 1553B. Here's a site where you can see these magnificent secret space stations. Some are just plain awesome. www.thelivingmoon.com... Thanks for your input and your post. Also... a census? So...... we sent the Census Bureau on a secret mission.... to Mars, looked at their tax records to get a count for population, (didnt account for the ones who commited tax fraud), then came back home? Or enlighten me with your "theory" on how this all worked out. Listen Ron, I think you need to get out of your fantasy world, and/or 14th century what ever one it is, and come to reality. Also, you act like theirs a SSS, but theirs no proof to back up your claim, no proof at all! No proof. Also Ron, you didnt answer my other question. Do you think the SSS is a mini soul catcher in our orbit for the secret moon soul catcher base. Like it hyperbeams the souls to the moon?
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reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 12:55 AM by zorgon
Originally posted by Laxpla no proof to back up your claim, no proof at all! No proof. Naturally... if there was proof that would satisfy you just lying around in public domain sites it wouldn't be secret Also Ron, you didnt answer my other question. Do you think the SSS is a mini soul catcher in our orbit for the secret moon soul catcher base. Like it hyperbeams the souls to the moon? Didn't answer it as I know nothing about soul catchers... thats John and Sleepers department, but I doubt the SSS has much to do with that Care to fill me in what you mean by "hyperbeaming the souls to the moon"? [edit on 14-11-2007 by zorgon]
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reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 03:27 AM by 1553B
Originally posted by johnlear Thanks for the post 1553B. Here's a site where you can see these magnificent secret space stations. Some are just plain awesome. They're all pixelated amorphous blobs, the sharpest of which look like this: How many of your "space station" pictures have been photographed with the shuttle attached? Docking? Undocking? ZERO. Because they're NOT space stations. Getting such pictures of an actual space station is a piece of cake. Like I said, YOU, yourself, can go buy a telescope and get pictures as razor sharp as this: Just look at that, and look at your living moon pictures! I ask again. Why has nobody taken a picture of a secret spacestation when literally thousands upon thousands of amateur astronomers have taken razor sharp images of the ISS in low earth orbit? I'll save you the trouble: because the shuttle isn't visiting visiting secret space stations. -1553B
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reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 04:38 AM by tezzajw
Originally posted by 1553B How many of your "space station" pictures have been photographed with the shuttle attached? Docking? Undocking? ZERO. Because they're NOT space stations. Your argument has flaws in it. Whether or not you believe there are secret space stations, consider this... If there are secret space stations and no one knows about them, then how would amatuer astronomers KNOW what time the shuttle is going to dock with them? By tracking the orbit of the known ISS and knowing when the shuttle is docked there, it's fairly routine to get some great pictures. The only way that amatuer astronomers could hope to get a picture of the shuttle docked at a secret space station is to follow the shuttle around and hope that it docks with a secret space station. How many astronomers spend their time tracking the shuttle's orbit continuously looking for a secret docking opportunity?
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