The Fall of Man

This post is in regards to Daniel Quinn's novel "The Story of B." This may have been posted before and this may not be the right forum as I am a new poster so move it if need be. Anyhow...

There is a section in the book that I would like others to share their views about. It is just a view of The Fall as perceived by those who weren't trying to spread civilization throughout the world by totalitarian agriculture (Which is how our civilization came to be). All quotes are from "The Story of B" page 96.

This book is about a priest investigating a man as the anti-Christ b/c he is spreading new views about the world.

"Look at it from the point of view of some nomadic herders of ten thousand years ago. Who decides who lives and who dies on this planet?" "The gods."

This part of the novel (in summary) states that as part of totalitarian agriculture, we decided who lived and who died. "Our posture is not, 'If a coyote attacks my herd, I'll kill it,' our posture is, 'Let's wipe coyotes off the face of the earth.' When it came to wolves and cows, we said, 'Let the wolves be destroyed,' and the wolves were destroyed, and we said, 'Let there be cows by the billion,' and there were cows by the billion."

Another quote..."the gods have a special knowledge that enables them to rule the world. This knowledge includes the knowledge of who should live and who should die, but it embraces much more than that."....."every choice the gods make is good for one creature but evil for another, and if you think about it, it really can't be otherwise. If the quail goes out to hunt and the gods send it a grasshopper, then this is good for the quail but evil for the grasshopper. And if the fox goes out to hunt, and the gods send it a quail, then this is good for the fox but evil for the quail. And vica versa,"

The people saw this and thought "These people have eaten at the gods' own tree of wisdom, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

Man has been around long before written history. Totalitarian agriculture brought about major civilization, thus bringing written history. Shouldn't the "creation story" be about the birth of totalitarian agriculture as explained?

I don't mean to offend...though questioning the Bible surely will...but doesn't the Fall of Man relate to the beginning of our culture of totalitarian agriculture. Christians (which I speak of because I lack great knowledge of the beginnings of other cultures) sought to spread their religion. But they needed a way to support their expansion (complete control of food source.) I am not saying that the way we live is wrong. But we lock up our food so that the only way to get it is through hard work. And locking up our food creates castes...those who produce the food and those who horde it from the masses so that they must work for it.

So I guess I just want to shed light and get thoughts on what you guys and gals think about the origins of our civilization. Of course agriculture brought about our civilizations, but is the story of the Fall in Genesis really just an account of agriculture coming to life?

I'm still trying to understand this (as I was brought up Christian) so please post constructive criticism and I'd love to bring up a healthy conversation about this. I think it could go far.

the knowledge is that of the tree of life..good and evil. Those civilised schemers use their advanced techniques to this day I think. Its just presented differently, adapting until it can reimpose itself.

The earth isnt perfect, and humans have brains to create inventive things. All this greed and control freakishness will one day make humanity realise it has a serious problem, and that the elites will likely go hitler (suicidal) when the empires crashs' and stocks fall, armies will secure lands, harsh laws imposed. It all leads to this and is a product of this from our past.

I f we want to remove this curse we have placed on ourselves. we must let go of that which holds us to the this curse. The fall of man is purely..selfishness and greed, and ignorance of eternal truths and wisdom of old. People dont learn those theyre lost.

THe bible and many other religious texts are used as tools to subjugate a populace into a desired mindset of equating God with the oppressive state and choosing apathy towards it. ANd its symbolism of dualism is connected by the designs of company logos and connections worship houses as i have made this connection before just noticing small similarity. Deception on a mass scale. engineered by those predicted in the bible, as wolves in sheeps clothing. Agents of the enemy of human kind in the ned, as they eat out nations and corrupt them slowly, from within.

Technology exists that can make a desert into a irrigated field. Food control will end when everyone has a plot to farm on, and grows there fair share.

you've brought up lots of things that deserve equal attention, but i'll focus on the adam and eve bit.

the story of adam and eve disobeying God and falling from grace is a story that you must understand if you are to understand the rest of the bible. that is why it is right at the front.

it is about human arrogance and being deceived into thinking "we know best - we are like god". it's not about agriculture really, its about the human heart.

basically, to get to know God, you must approach God in humility, and you cannot be humble unless you admit that you are imperfect and not all-knowing. that is what the story of adam and eve teaches people who want to know God. it's also the first step to understanding human nature. we can be foolish and easily deceived.

there is a tendancy for humans to think they are perfect and god-like and will live forever. just look at how carelessly young males drive their new cars, just before they crash them and die. they feel invincible.

i think in a way you are right though, i think civilisation is based on the idea that "if we put our minds together, we can solve all the worlds problems".

like back then it was like two tribes agreed to band together because they had strength in numbers to defeat the other hostile or invading tribes, and so on and so forth, and the more people that joined these tribal alliances, the more agricultural land they had to control to feed everyone, so they set up walls and defences and trained armies and made weapons, all so they could keep making babies and feeding their families and perpetuating their existence. i think that's basically how civilisations started, and not much has changed really. except that the tribal chiefs became power hungry and selfish, and then they started only passing the power onto their sons and close relatives, so then along came royal families and governments etc etc.

then all the problems of living in close proximity became more prominent - theft, prostitution, rape, murder, disease, fights, disputes, etc etc....and so over time, as populations have got bigger and bigger, these problems have become more and more obvious and impacting more, so the royal families and governments today are saying - "we need a solution!" in steps the "great work" to make the world society run like a well-oiled machine, what we call the techno-plutocratic new world order.

the problem is, these "problems" are not problems of civilisation, and they are not problems of a few evil people. they all stem from our imperfection as adams and eves. we are all adams and eves. we all want to live our own way without any consequences. that is the moral of the story.

no society will ever be perfect because humans are imperfect. when the great day comes when evil will be judged and the whole universe is transformed into perfection, then things will pick up for the remnant of the human race. until then, keep learning.

The fall of man, will be the rise of mankind

Evil, cannot win in the end. This is in the design.