How many wintesses say they saw a plane hit light poles?

Excellent find Jezz, it's what I was looking for. Chris does make some valid points that should be investigated. There is just so much stuff I am just not sure what CIT is getting at.. Please correct me if I'm wrong: There were two planes, the one that flew over the NORTH of the Citgo was the "fly over plane" the plane that come from the South of Citgo was the actual plane that hit? Please explain the theory of all these planes that are seen, I heard you mention a c-130, a white plane, an AA plane..Please put these plains into retrospect and what is actually meant by all this.

Thanks!
Bud316

posted by tezzajw
OCT Believers - how many people allegedly saw the plane knock the light poles down?

OCT Believers - how many people allegedly saw the light pole in Lloyde's taxi?

Yes, good question. Where are the light pole through the windshield witnesses? Why is not one single fanatical defender of the OCT faith down there in Arlington County Virginia feverishly interviewing people to find somebody, even just one person who saw the light pole in the windshield? Several Illusionist JREFers did boast about going down there to dig up witnesses to ruin the CIT investigation; but when they returned their report was . . . . . NOTHING.

There is not one single witness in existence who saw the light pole hit the taxi, nor saw the light pole through the windshield, nor saw two men pull the light pole out of the windshield. There is not one photo in existence showing a light pole through the windshield. In fact the first photos of the taxi we have were taken by Marine photographer Jason Ingersoll within minutes after the first explosion, as he ran down the hill from the Naval Annex, before the fire trucks got there at 9:41, and there is no light pole sticking out of the windshield 22 feet past the bumper. Check them out yourself (at end of post) you pseudoskeptics and OCT faithful and show us the light pole through the windshield.

How come TV reporter Mike Walter was not a witness to the light pole in the windshield? He was right there across the HOV lane from Lloyde and the taxi standing in the northbound side of Hwy 27 for a long time. But Mike Walter saw NOTHING. No light pole through the windshield. No two people pulling the light pole out of the windshield. NOTHING. He claims he didn't even notice the taxi broken down. Must not have been written in his script would be my guess.

No fire trucks at the fires yet - Mike Walter should see the pole in the windshield



Mike Walter working damage control



Of course MSM Reporter Mike Walter did change his 'story'
several times as did MSM Reporter Jamie McIntyre.

MIKE WALTER: I will never forget that day, trapped in traffic and then I rolled down the window and heard the sound of the jet overhead. I wasn’t surprised. I worked in the USA today building in Roslyn nearby and we were used to seeing a lot of choppers coming to the helipad at the Pentagon and a lot of commercial jets heading to Reagan which is nearby. But for some reason I looked up and saw the underbelly of the jet as it gracefully banked, then I watched in shock as the jet basically lined up the Pentagon in its sights and began to scream towards the mammoth structure. I watched as it continued to dip from the sky, diving towards the Pentagon. There are some trees that are adjacent to 27 the road I was stuck on, so the jet went out of sight momentarily.

Then I picked it up as it struck very low into the Pentagon. The wings folded back and it was like watching someone slam an empty aluminum can into a wall. The jet folded up like an accordion. There was a huge fireball. There was the initial shock of what had just happened. All of the drivers seemed to be in a trance. Then suddenly it ended when a woman began to scream, “They just hit the Pentagon, get back, get back.” She backed her SUV back and forth until she was able to create a crease and then she sped out of the area on the emergency lane. That’s when all hell broke loose as people began trying to get out of the area any way they could, some went forward, and others turned their cars around and drove in the wrong direction. All in an effort to get out of the area.
www.pentagonresearch.com...

Mike Walter in the Ingersoll pics:



Mike Walter



Mike Walter leaves (NOTE: in his field of vision is the cab/pole area):









Mike Walter in same shirt with Gordon Peterson later that same day:


High resolution images - no 30+ foot long light pole sticking out of a windshield and no fire trucks at the fires yet


03876 There is the taxi - anybody see a pole sticking out over the guardrail? Anywhere?


03877 Anybody see the pole? Should be in the middle of the hood and sticking past the guard rail



[edit on 11/10/08 by SPreston]

posted by tezzajw
Nice thread that I thought I would drag back from the dead.

OCT Believers - how many people allegedly saw the plane knock the light poles down?

OCT Believers - how many people allegedly saw the light pole in Lloyde's taxi?

posted by bud316
Excellent find Jezz, it's what I was looking for. Chris does make some valid points that should be investigated. There is just so much stuff I am just not sure what CIT is getting at.. Please correct me if I'm wrong: There were two planes, the one that flew over the NORTH of the Citgo was the "fly over plane" the plane that come from the South of Citgo was the actual plane that hit? Please explain the theory of all these planes that are seen, I heard you mention a c-130, a white plane, an AA plane..Please put these plains into retrospect and what is actually meant by all this.

Where did you learn of two aircraft? CIT has never mentioned two aircraft at the Pentagon. There was only one aircraft at the Pentagon which flew Over the Naval Annex (ONA) and North of the Citgo (NOC). There was no aircraft which flew the official flight path through the light poles. That was simulated and staged, with explosives outside and inside the Pentagon rendering the destruction and murdering the targeted personnel. The C-130 came in 3+ minutes later from the west northwest, was at a much higher altitude, and turned away off to the north long before it reached the Pentagon area.

The only plane at the Pentagon was the decoy aircraft which flew ONA and NOC. Some eyewitnesses described it as a white aircraft. Destroying the Lloyde/Taxi scenario is part of destroying the faked Official AA Flight 77 south side flight path. The actual Flight 77 Tail #N644AA apparently never even flew back into Virginia on 9-11-2001. It disappeared up near Ohio. You seriously need to study the CIT Research at the Pentacon, P4T, LC, and even here at ATS. There is a tremendous amount of research you are terribly lacking in. Who is Chris? Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis are the CIT researchers.



[edit on 11/10/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

16. “I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.”[401]

Here is the one account. Wanda Ramey. She is the ONE known witness who is directly quoted as having "seen" the plane hit the poles.

Update on this.

Since this thread was created we got a hold of Wanda Ramey....the lone witness who is specifically quoted as saying that she SAW the plane hit the poles.

It turns out she was not able to definitively confirm this claim.

We weren't able to find her for quite some time until our always resourceful undercover Arlington asset, 22205, was able to locate her new business and phone number.

So he forwarded us the info and we called her on 4/25/2008.

As a strange "coincidence"......the Washington Post published this little piece about her on 5/4/2008!
New Business Offers Life Without Haunting Memories

What's also interesting is how this article seems like a propaganda piece for the "survivor's fund" that allegedly helped her get her life together.

Well they are also the ones who published Lloyde the cab driver's first account and allegedly helped him get a new cab.


As the article said, Wanda quit the Pentagon police after 9/11 due to trauma. She admitted to us that she has worked hard to put the event behind her with lots of therapy and medication and has therefore made a deliberate effort to forget the event.

In essence, her memory of specifics regarding the event has been virtually wiped clean so she is no longer a credible witness.

Listen to interview here:
www.thepentacon.com...

So this is the best witness they have in regards to the plane hitting the poles.

Amazing isn't it?

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]

Bumped.

In another current thread, some official government story believers are trying to use witness statements, such as McGraw's, to prove that the light pole hit the taxi... Yeah, right. Good luck with that failed endeavour.

This thread should serve as a lesson about why those official government story believers need to conduct some independent verification of what witnesses really claimed that they saw...

Craig, what is your take on Mike Walter? I believe you said you had dinner at his place. (Incidentally, I'm not sure I would have dinner at the home of a person that I assumed was a government shill. He might order big macs in from the "specialty kitchen" at Langley.)

Is he a government shill? He's a smooth character. Was he trying to pump you for information? Please dish the dirt.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


I'm sorry - the poles were damaged and on the ground after the plane went by, without regard to your "analysis" of the witnesses (which is suspect at best) unless you can provide physical evidence including witnesses statements of an alternative means by which the poles achieved their place and condition, it is a completely moot point.

The official narrative therefore stands unchallenged.

reply to post by SPreston


So Mike Walters actaully sees and describes Flight 77 crash into the building. Pretty much the end of the story there. All your other challenges are rather meaningless. They carry no weight. Have no bearing. Are not germain. Don't know how else to say it. He watched the plane hit the building. Period.

Am I really supposed to doubt the Mike Walter because nobody happened to snap a photo of the light pole in the windshield of the taxi? Does that even make sense to you? There are an infinite number of photos that were not taken, you realize that of course, right? To say something didn't happen because one of an infinite number of photos was not taken is really just taking flight from reality.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Craig, what is your take on Mike Walter? I believe you said you had dinner at his place. (Incidentally, I'm not sure I would have dinner at the home of a person that I assumed was a government shill. He might order big macs in from the "specialty kitchen" at Langley.)

Is he a government shill? He's a smooth character. Was he trying to pump you for information? Please dish the dirt.

Here is the "dirt" from the Ocean County news:

"After getting a telephone call from a self-described 9/11 researcher named Russell Pickering, Walter invited Pickering and Dylan Avery, the film's director, to his house in Fairfax, Virginia.

They showed up with a couple of other people Walter had never spoken with: Craig Ranke, a fast talker with wild eyes, and Aldo Marquis, a heavyset guy who didn't talk much. The two said they were helping Avery and Pickering with research for their film. Walter chatted casually with the pair, and at one point, he realized that Ranke was surreptitiously tape-recording the conversation.

That was weird, he thought. And increasingly, so was the conversation itself. Although Pickering and Avery seemed relatively normal, Ranke and Marquis appeared to be on a mission to prove that the Pentagon plane crash never happened. They wouldn't listen to anything that contradicted this notion.

"I understand why people have certain feelings about this government," Walter says. "There are things this administration did that I'm not pleased with, but facts are facts. I was on the road that day and saw what I saw. The plane was in my line of sight. You could see the 'AA' on the tail. You knew it was American Airlines."

Marquis and Ranke simply refused to believe Walter saw what he saw. "They were saying things like, 'Are you sure the plane didn't land [at Reagan airport] and they set off a bomb?' They kept coming up with all these scenarios.

"Some of those guys [at the party] were young and nice and disaffected [about] their government," Walter concludes. "And some of them were crazy.""

As some here know, despite my disagreements with CIT -and- Pilots for 9/11 Truth, I've believed their pentagon plane flight path theory for quite some time now. What I'm still not sure of is whether or not Walter is simply mistaken regarding the flight path of the plane and of CIT, or if the truth is more sinister.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by scott3x]

reply to post by scott3x


He saw the Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Don't know what more you need. As for the flightpath - that's like calling balls and strikes. 6 people may say it was a ball and 4 may say it was a strike but no one says the catcher didn't catch it. And that is all that counts.

Originally posted by hooper
I'm sorry - the poles were damaged and on the ground after the plane went by,

Please demonstrate your proof that shows the light pole hit the taxi.

Originally posted by hooper
The official narrative therefore stands unchallenged.

Which official narrative refers to the light pole hitting the taxi? Government driven, media driven?

Tell us all how you think you know that the light pole hit the taxi.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by scott3x

 

He saw the Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

I don't recall him saying that. Can you quote him saying this?

Originally posted by hooper
Don't know what more you need. As for the flightpath - that's like calling balls and strikes. 6 people may say it was a ball and 4 may say it was a strike but no one says the catcher didn't catch it. And that is all that counts.

If this just a baseball game, I'm sure you'd be right. But it's not. The reason the flight path that the plane took to reach the pentagon is so important is that if it took the north of the citgo gas station flight path, it simply couldn't have crashed into the pentagon; -official- damage reports have conclusively stated that the -only- way that the plane could have hit the pentagon is from the south path. Then, ofcourse, there's the fact that the official damage reports don't account for rather basic things, such as the impossible flight path that the plane would have had to have taken in order to strike the pentagon the way it allegedly did. And then there's the dirth of people who allegedly say the plane strike the light poles at all, as this thread points out.

Originally posted by hooper
So Mike Walters actaully sees and describes Flight 77 crash into the building. Pretty much the end of the story there.

Here's some of what Mr. Walter says he saw:

Then I picked it up as it struck very low into the Pentagon. The wings folded back and it was like watching someone slam an empty aluminum can into a wall. The jet folded up like an accordion.

If that's what happened then what made the hole in the C-Ring of the Pentagon? Couldn't have been the fuselage of the airplane because Mike Walter saw that fold up like an accordion.

Despite what Mike Walter says he saw, we still have problems. When you throw Sgt. Lagasse into the mix we have big problems. But hey, our problems are solved. Those great patriots in the Bush administration scooped all of the videos showing the impact. All they have to do is release those videos and all of this CIT nonsense will go away and Sgt. Lagasse can go in for his new pair of glasses.

Why are the government holding the videos? Is there something shocking and embarassing on them?

[edit on 16-11-2009 by ipsedixit]

Good thread! S&F! I have always found it hard to believe that with all the long term planing that the OS claims these terrorists had that they failed to hit the SecDefs office and went right into the section of the pentagon that it did supposedly crash into despite all the stories of Hani Hanjor's poor skills as a pilot makes you wonder indeed.

Mike Walter's Bank Pivot Turn:
z3.invisionfree.com...

Frequently Asked Questions >> Since the plane did not hit the light poles do you think that they were somehow knocked down in real-time as the plane passed by? Maybe with explosives, or by the vortex of the plane or a missile or something?
www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

Frequently Asked Questions >> How could the light poles and taxi cab scene have been staged in broad daylight?
www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

All of the witnesses on record in the best positions to judge where the plane flew in relation to the Citgo Station place the plane on the NORTH side. See their testimony here:
www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

This means that the plane COULD NOT HAVE all five light poles, ESPECIALLY light pole #1 (nor could it have caused the directional damage to the Pentagon.)
www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

Even Mike Walter has been describing a righthand bank since the beginning.
i14.photobucket.com...

But now even he ALSO describes the plane on the north side, nowhere near the light poles:
i14.photobucket.com...

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Ligon]

I think as Mike keeps talking you will find that slowly and surely it turns out that he and Craig Ranke were saying the same thing all along. Mike's a survivor. And he's not the only one. A lot of people are going to be doing the same thing when they finally get it through their heads that this 9/11 truth thing is not going away.

It's not about truth, see, it's about truth truth.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by SPreston

Originally posted by SPreston

MIKE WALTER: ...
Then I picked it up as it struck very low into the Pentagon. The wings folded back and it was like watching someone slam an empty aluminum can into a wall. The jet folded up like an accordion. ...
www.pentagonresearch.com...

I'd forgotten about that statement. I remember and official story believer saying that the wings couldn't "fold back"; apparently he'd been unaware that Mike Walter had said just that :-p. I really want to believe that Mike Walter simply made some honest mistakes, but how can you witness a plane's wings 'folding back' if (a) the plane didn't hit the building and (b) they wouldn't do that even if it did? Has he made himself believe something that clearly didn't happen based upon what others have told him happened? Or is he saying something he knows isn't true?

[edit on 17-11-2009 by scott3x]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by hooper
I'm sorry - the poles were damaged and on the ground after the plane went by,

Please demonstrate your proof that shows the light pole hit the taxi.

Originally posted by hooper
The official narrative therefore stands unchallenged.

Which official narrative refers to the light pole hitting the taxi? Government driven, media driven?

Tell us all how you think you know that the light pole hit the taxi.

The cab driver says it did. Prove him wrong. Not with speculation and pseudo physics, with another witness that will attest that the light did not hit the cab and the damage was done by others. If you don't have that you don't have jack. And while your at it please provide the affidavits for all the other witnesses that saws the lights being pre-positioned.

Thank You, looking forward to reading those testimonies.

Originally posted by hooper
The cab driver says it did. Prove him wrong.

You obviously don't understand logic, hooper. You and he are making the claim, you need to prove it happened.

There is no burden of proof upon me to demonstrate anything. You need to prove that Lloyde was telling the truth about what happened.

Originally posted by hooper
Not with speculation and pseudo physics, with another witness that will attest that the light did not hit the cab and the damage was done by others.

Obviously, you aren't quite sure how logic works to support a theory. You need to prove that it happened. How you choose to do that is up to you. Sure, if you want to provide a witness to support Lloyde, great. Go right ahead.

I expect in your next post you'll be trying to prove that the light pole hit the taxi and not generating noise to deflect the attention away from your claim.