Science taking over gods domain

I know that this has been brought up in another thread just not in here.

What I refer to is the scientists who are in the process of creating life, some are using pre-existing bits of bacteria while others are starting from scratch.

Story here

I was just wondering how the religionites out there feel about this concept?

How also it makes god (take your pick) seem less and less miraculous in its supposed endeavours. I mean from creating life to creating mini big bangs theres not much left for science to take from the religious domain.

God just doesn't seem that 'godlike' anymore


G

reply to post by shihulud


Nah, you just fail to appreciate to true extent of his power.

It is only because of God that we ourselves can create life - without God, Not only would we not be able to ourselves, but we would never have existed in the first place.

At least that's how i feel the arguement will flow.

But why the need for a god if life can be shown to be created through natural processes. If this is the case then the case for god slips further and further down the mythical road.

No need for a creator if life can be created naturally.


G

reply to post by shihulud


Life isn't being created naturally, it's being created in a lab.

Why are you trying to disprove God anyway, what did he ever do to you?

reply to post by Throbber


If it can be shown under lab conditions that life can be created through natural processes is a bit different to creating life in a lab.

"Why are you trying to disprove God anyway, what did he ever do to you?"

I'm not trying to disprove god (the whole god concept does that for itself IMO).

Why do you insist that a god is real and a necessity for life?

And yes I will admit that no god being has done anything for me or to me.


G

reply to post by shihulud


If you're not trying to disprove god what is the purpose of this thread other than to devalue or 'disprove' that god has ultimate power?

I'm choosing to discuss this viewpoint because no one else seems to be willing to.

Anyway, even if it turns out that life can be created through naturaly processes, that doesn't mean that those natural processes 'naturally' came to be.

Originally posted by Throbber

If you're not trying to disprove god what is the purpose of this thread other than to devalue or 'disprove' that god has ultimate power?

The purpose is to show that there is no need for a god (and that includes yours, I make no distinctions between deities). Why do you care if your god is not real or necessary, I thought it was all about faith? If you have faith in your beliefs then what does it matter if they are true beliefs or not?

Anyway, even if it turns out that life can be created through naturaly processes, that doesn't mean that those natural processes 'naturally' came to be.

Quite true - but still begs the question. Why the need for a deity when natural processes are capable of doing the same thing a deity was supposed to?


G

I believe in GOD, and I believe that the vast majority of people around the world believe in GOD, or GODs.

The fact is this...... if GOD had not created us to become smarter and smarter, and more and more advanced in basically all types of knowledge, then we would not have the blueprints to recreate some of his/her achievements.

Did you ever think that maybe it was GODs plan for man to recreate some or all of his achievements? Maybe GOD has other things on his/her mind, and doesn't mind sluffing off stuff like this to others who are interested in such stuff. Maybe that is GODs way of making them happy. Maybe that was his/her plan all along. Maybe somewhere down all of these different paths that we take, there is a real reward that no one can even imagine.

We look at our world as though we are large, when in fact we are so small that its like nothing we know really counts. If our solar system is an atom of GOD, that exists somewhere in GODs body; just like countless atoms exist in our bodies, then we realize that everything that would effect GOD would somehow effect us in some strange sort of manner.

Just because man can be a copy cat and recreate GODs creations does not mean that GOD didn't have this intent for mankind to come about. Maybe GOD rejoices in the fact that mankind is recreating his wonders; if I was GOD, and I seen this happening, I would rejoice and be very pleased, because it would have been my intentions also that different technologies advance and man/woman prove to GOD how valuable of a great achievement that man/woman really is. Maybe GOD wants me and women to learn how to do this so that man can bring back LIFE to creatures that are extinct.

Maybe GOD wants man to be able to undo any unjust blunders man or other creatures of GOD have done in the past or in the future. Maybe there are other civilizations or creatures on other planets and GOD wants man to bring those civilizations or creatures back to life in the future. Maybe those civilizations and creatures were destroyed by some catastrophe and GOD has his intentions that man should reach there and be able to bring them back to life.

In doing so, GOD would let those people and others around the world feel like a GOD must feel, even if for just a very brief moment. We have all felt at some time or another like a GOD, and maybe that is GODs intent, maybe he lets us test ourselves in many different ways, and hopefully we achieve what he sent each and every one of us here to achieve.

We are very near sited. We have no idea how vast GODs ideas are, or how far they extend into the future.

IF we are all some very small particle of GOD then we are definitely part of GODs will and GOD him/her self. Therefore, if man/woman is able to recreate GODs achievements, and man/woman is but a very small part of GOD, which I for one believe in, then in essence GOD himself/herself has found another way to recreate life. Which means that you can't seriously believe that man/woman is doing it all by themselves. GOD is there, and everywhere, at all times.

I'm a scientist. I'm not religious, I don't go to any church, and I don't believe in any one faith over any other faith. I believe in GOD, but I don't believe that all people have to believe in GOD, for GOD to be there doing what he/she does. GOD is going to be there doing whatever he/she wants to do in whatever manner he/she wants to do it in, doing it in whatever amount of time he/she wants to do it in, whether everybody believes in him/her or not. As far as I'm concerned everything I see, hear, touch, think and dream about is part of GOD or GODs plan.

You and I will never be a GOD, but I believe we are part of GOD.

Life created in the lab, that is stupid. Life has been assembled in the lab like a buick. Tell the scientist to create DNA from scratch. Assemble the molecules from atoms. Then tell me who created what......

Quite true - but still begs the question. Why the need for a deity when natural processes are capable of doing the same thing a deity was supposed to?

In looking purely at the logic of your argument, and not the theological point of view, I have the following comment...

You are making the assumption that God's whole purpose is to create life. What if it is a different purpose. ie. We cannot create the afterlife (heaven or other) in a lab.

Originally posted by astmonster

Tell the scientist to create DNA from scratch. Assemble the molecules from atoms.

This is exactly what Craig Venter's team is about to do...

I quote from the BBC article posted above:

"The plan is to re-synthesise these DNA sequences from simple chemicals"

Originally posted by Saurus

Quite true - but still begs the question. Why the need for a deity when natural processes are capable of doing the same thing a deity was supposed to?

In looking purely at the logic of your argument, and not the theological point of view, I have the following comment...

You are making the assumption that God's whole purpose is to create life. What if it is a different purpose. ie. We cannot create the afterlife (heaven or other) in a lab.

I'm not making any assumptions of any deity (I'm an atheist), its the religious that make the assumptions of their deities not me. It was the religious that put life in the hands of a god. Just as you assume that a heaven or afterlife exists (I don't).

I just don't see the necessity for any deity if these things are natural processes within a natural universe.

G

Originally posted by astmonster

Life created in the lab, that is stupid. Life has been assembled in the lab like a buick. Tell the scientist to create DNA from scratch. Assemble the molecules from atoms. Then tell me who created what......

Oh its the homeschooler who thinks they know everything. I see you never even read the link given - typical !!!

Just how did your god create atoms and molecules?


G

Originally posted by RussianScientists
I believe in GOD, and I believe that the vast majority of people around the world believe in GOD, or GODs.

Means absolutely nothing in the whole scheme of things, whether the whole world believes in gods or even the same god doesn't make it the truth

The fact is this...... if GOD had not created us to become smarter and smarter, and more and more advanced in basically all types of knowledge, then we would not have the blueprints to recreate some of his/her achievements.

Facts is it? Where is your evidence to corroborate these 'facts'

Did you ever think that maybe it was GODs plan for man to recreate some or all of his achievements? Maybe GOD has other things on his/her mind, and doesn't mind sluffing off stuff like this to others who are interested in such stuff. Maybe that is GODs way of making them happy. Maybe that was his/her plan all along. Maybe somewhere down all of these different paths that we take, there is a real reward that no one can even imagine.

So we've went from 'facts' to maybe this or maybe that. Hell maybe god doesn't exist and the religious have deluded themselves

We look at our world as though we are large...
... As far as I'm concerned everything I see, hear, touch, think and dream about is part of GOD or GODs plan.

You and I will never be a GOD, but I believe we are part of GOD.

As I said before belief is in no way the truth. What I'm saying is that god (whatever one(s) you like) are not a necessity for life anywhere nor a necessity for the creation of the universe and if this is so then:

WHY NEED A GOD?


G

Originally posted by shihulud
What I refer to is the scientists who are in the process of creating life, some are using pre-existing bits of bacteria while others are starting from scratch.

They haven't done it yet, and there are some huge hurdles that have to be overcome. Reminds me of all the talk about Artificial Intelligence being "just around the corner." Thirty years ago.

Even a single cell is a very complicated mechanism. Just because you know how to make a paper airplane doesn't mean you can build a 747 -- even if you have all the parts.

"God" or none.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by Nohup]

Hello Shihulud.

It's good to see that there are aethiests out there. It makes our world go around. You are kind of like the Yang to our Ying. Everything can't be black; there should always be a black and white; just as there should be those who believe and those that don't believe.

There is something in my background that I remember somewhat vaguely, and I'll share it with you if you don't mind.

When I was growing up I read about people that had (NDE) Near Death Experiences. I can't remember the name of the book or anything else, but I can remember the jist of what was accidentally discovered in the study of NDE.

The study was about NDEs; but strangely enough, it was broad enough that there were actually quite a few aethists in the study that described their NDEs. Lots of the people in the study talked about going into a bright light or tunnel, or meeting loved ones or a GOD like figure, and then coming back to life; it was a very pleasant experience for them.

On the other hand the majority of the aethiests came back describing that they had been in a hellish environment with hellish beings; they were terrified and the majority of the aethiests that had such experiences did what right after that experience?

The aethiests converted over to some kind of religion because they believed that they had been given a second chance to change their beliefs. Their NDE jolted them into believing that there was not only a GOD and Heaven, but there really was a Hell and a Devil; and if they didn't believe in GOD, then they would be going back to where they had just been, and they were sure it was Hell. I don't think you would be able to make any of those ex-aethiests believe that GOD does not exist.

Maybe Shihulud you might like to check around and see if you can find that book and read it to see what others discovered. You my friend are one of us, you are the same as us and you can still have different beliefs. We are not here to judge you, and we hope you are not here to judge us, but to be friends.

We can still haggle over beliefs and debunk stuff, if we can; but we will never be able to debunk GODs existence. I think you, just like us, search for GOD. You are at one end of the spectrum though, an extreme searcher that needs more proof of GODs existence than the rest of us. I believe that one day you may change over; then again, maybe not.

I think it's highly problematic when humans get a little smart and start to believe that they don't need a god, that they can be gods themselves...we start getting megalomaniacs like Stalin and Mao...it's best to fear an invisible god who can only take action in the next world than to enthrone a human god who's word is law in this one.

Just a reminder.
To no one in particular.

This is a touchy, and personal issue.
Just like many of you, I believe it needs to be discussed.
Please continue..Just keep it respectful, and civil.

Everything is created from energy. God is energy, having faith in God makes you feel better or secure, positive energy within yourself. Basically, whatever makes you feel good, do it or think it, if it's faith, it's faith.

Let Man be, God apparently created the Universe in 7 days, but created the Sun on the 6th, so how could time have been dictated without light? Could have taken millions of years, I'm just saying.

I have no idea where I'm going with this. Let Man create life, we plant seeds to grow plants everyday everywhere, let's all start creating bacteria together. It's our nature, we want to know and learn more, it's in all of us. To restrict ourselves to old traditions of a different time is ridiculous. People grow and learn, times change, the planet changes, we adapt.

reply to post by shihulud


I think the concept of creating life in a lab will be a big step for the scientific community.

Good for them, just like the article said, Is not about creating life but knowing that you created life.

Good for you Scientific community!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!