Muslims & America

I have a theory that the current terrorist threat is fake. I am sure that I am not alone in this belief. Sorry if this is a bit off topic .




[edit on 22-10-2007 by they see ALL]

reply to post by they see ALL


With all due respect, I disagree. Did the government know they were there twenty five years ago and not do anything about it? Yes, but terrorists are very real. They're not fabricated at all.





[edit on 22-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by _Phoenix_

You are appearing as dumb as the terrorists! Sorry no offense

Oh, no. No offense taken. In fact, I talk to people like this all the time. Opening your argument with this gives you so much credit, I almost bought into your bs. Brilliant.

Now Look here for its REAL interpretation, to what it REALLY means, read it well and you will realize your wrong thinking.
en.wikipedia.org...'an and go to 3.2.3 Jihad and Sura 9. (Edit: for some reason link doesnt work, so after clicking click search for criticism etc......)
And here
www.answering-islam.de...

Did you bother looking this over at all? Here, let me give you a couple of exerpts from this, maybe it will help your quest for a teenage education:

We’ve examined the historical and scholarly Islamic documents related to 9:5 and jihad and there is only one conclusion that can be drawn: 9:5 was meant to be both offensive and defensive and was meant for worldwide application. The theology of jihad is composed in part of verse 9:5 and in particular this verse applies to "polytheists". Corresponding to 9:5, 9:29 issues a similar edict of war upon Jews and Christians, forcing them to bow the knee to Islam in humility, pay extortion, or die.

True Islam, real Islam, Muhammad’ Islam, is a poison in humanity’s soul. In this case it subjects man to a satanic brutality, "believe or die", where son will turn against family, friends against friends, and blood spills if one challenges the belief of Muhammad’s dominance

From the Quran (9:29):

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

9:5 is corroborated by 9:29, 9:123, and other verses. 9:29 is also supported by Muhammad’s actions. He walked the walk that he talked. He taught to make war upon and subject others, and he did just that. The scholars state that jihad against the Christians and Jews followed the same direction as the jihad against the pagans: ever expanding

Islam’s final theological position regarding the use of violence to further its domain does not rest upon one verse or passage. Rather the entire Quran, other Islamic source materials, and Muhammad’s actions and lifestyle

Maybe if I post it here, you'll actually take the time to read it yourself. Thank you for strengthening my point, but I don't really need any more help. Remember, these are quotes from the links you provided for me. I'm not out looking for other material.

Taking small quotes from a full surah and trying to understand it isn't clever

Perhaps you should practice what you preach.

Also In my opinion a true Muslim only FOLLOWS the Quran, Hadiths are just story books

Who's the one that needs to do research?
en.wikipedia.org...

Also:
www.wnd.com...

Therefore following these books would be silly, because they might hold little truth

The life of Muhammed is a very serious thing to a Muslim. Look at what one of the beliefs are about 72 virgins and that the fact that that comes from a Hadith. This is part of why people are dying. Yeah, a Hadith actually has a pretty serious influence, doesn't it?

Originally posted by bigbert81

It actually DOES seem heretical, but that just seems to be the viewpoint from one side; however, guess what. Wahhibism is "the most extreme, separatist, and violent form of Islam" SOURCE: www.nationalreview.com...

"Heretical" according to who? The status quo?

Mainstream religion has undermined man's search for truth in favor of power. Anything the mainstream religions view as a "threat" to their authority, they label as "heretical."

The math is simple

muslum = terrorist

Prove me wrong !!

mikell

It's not sterotype it's a fact!!

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Sorry, I thought I was clear about that. It is viewed that way by the Wahhibis.

Thanks for the clarification, BigBert... I don't want to derail the thread, so I won't go into my diatribe about how the three Abrahamic religion have co-horted to maintain the power and control which they currently exhibit over people's spiritual lives... All the while knowing the truth and not speaking it.

Mikelmikel, as far as "all Muslims being terrorists," I'm not going to fall into that trap. However, my point from the very beginning of this thread is that it shouldn't surprise anyone if a Muslim is stopped at an airport and searched. It just shouldn't. Is it stereotyping? Well, for one to say that it is stereotyping one would have to conclude that terrorists are never Muslim. We all know that isn't true. So, no, it's not stereotyping.



[edit on 22-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
With all due respect, I disagree. Did the government know they were there twenty five years ago and not do anything about it? Yes, but terrorists are very real. They're not fabricated at all.

Hmmm. I do desire to make a separate thread on this, but all I will say, for now, is that the terrorist threat in the US isn't as real or severe as it is/was (in the past) hyped up to be. I don't want this thread getting off topic, sorry .




[edit on 22-10-2007 by they see ALL]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


No, I'm not saying that all Muslims or anyone with Islamic beliefs is a terrorist either, and I hope I'm not coming across that way. All I'm really trying to say is that I can understand why the fear, and why the supposed stereotyping of Muslims.

reply to post by bigbert81



No,No,Bert... My comment was more directed towards what Mike said than what you said...


[edit on 22-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

SpeakeroftheTruth isn't saying all Muslims are terrorists.

Hes saying that since the threat is Al Quaeda, then chances are, it'll be a Muslim.

Of course most are not terrorists.

But the biggest terrorist threat to the US now is Islamic terrorists.

Thats the idea.

Kacen, yeah, you summed it up pretty good.

reply to post by Kacen


Yes, good post.

Thanks for clearing that up. Must've missed that somewhere along the way.

Originally posted by bigbert81

www.answering-islam.de



Perhaps you should practice what you preach.

Lol I admit Ive made a big mistake here, I just quickly went through the page, not realizing that it was a Christian website, that criticizes Islam, how ironic.
Embarrassing yet kinda funny.

Anyway I still stand by what I said about reading the WHOLE Surah, before coming to conclusions, showing small quotes from a surah can give misunderstanding and wrong interpretation. Ive read many quotes in the past, that seem bad, but having read up on them and studying they mean a totally different thing, thats why I'm cautious of websites quoting small parts of the Bible and the Quran.

I think you can agree on this.


[edit on 22-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by Souljah



Thats the show "30 days" right? Lot of interesting scenarios he put himself in, in that show

Originally posted by bigbert81

Also In my opinion a true Muslim only FOLLOWS the Quran, Hadiths are just story books

Who's the one that needs to do research?
en.wikipedia.org...

I did do research!

Heres a quote from the link YOU gave me, haha looks like we both made mistakes today.

"However, some contemporary Muslims argue that the Qur'an alone is sufficient. Examples of such Muslims groups are Tolu-e-Islam (Resurgence of Islam), Free Minds, and United Submitters International. Muslims who take the "Qur'an alone" viewpoint are regarded as deviant by mainstream Muslim scholars, and by the vast majority of Muslims. Hadith-trusting Muslims argue that many Qur'anic instructions are impossible to fulfill without guidance from the ahadith. (The Qur'an does not, for example, specify how many prayer cycles constitute fulfillment of each of the daily prayers. See salat.) It is also important to note that most Muslims claim that the Qur'an cannot be fully explained by itself alone or read with complete understanding -- which is why the Hadith is referred to as the "second source" of Islam. While the Qur'an states "We have made it (the Qur'an) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed." (Qur'an 44:58), there are great debates between Muslims regarding the views stated in the Qur'an, and also those stated in the Hadith."

Heres a link for more full info.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also Id like to retract the comment "Also In my opinion a true Muslim only FOLLOWS the Quran", What I meant was that I think its better to be cautious of hadiths in my opinion, I don't mean to judge who's right or wrong, or who's a true Muslim or not.

Peace

[edit on 22-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Who's the one that needs to do research?
en.wikipedia.org...

"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."[2]

"Women are twin-halves of men."

Someone get Bodrul to explain these for me because the first scares me and the second confuses me but they both catch my eye.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful"

Please define Pagan according to this passage?
Does "repent" involve accepting the Muslim Faith?

If Pagan means anyone not a part of the Muslim Faith and repent means joins the Muslim Faith. Then this is pretty damning. It would be an order to wage war against anyone not of the Muslim Faith.

"fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them"
This is very clear in its meaning. No way to get out of what it says that I can see. It is a blanket order to kill anyone fitting the definition of Pagan whatever that may be. I suspect it is anyone not of the Muslim Faith. Therefore it is a command to kill anyone who does not join the Muslim Faith is it not?

"seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war);"
This is exactly what the Terrorists are doing.

Until you posted the full translation I was sitting on the fence. Now I think Profiling is not only necessary; to not do so would be utter stupidity. I am not of the Muslim Faith, therefore your members have been ordered to kill me. Could I maybe interest you in a Faith were we only have two principals to follow? Love God and Love Your Neighbor. I like that much better than words like kill.

I'm actually quite amazed you posted the translation. Do you understand what it is telling you to do? Even if it does not mean Christians should be killed it absolutely means Buddhists, Atheists and many others you are ordered to kill. I wonder how the Atheists feel about this??????

Originally posted by Kacen

"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."[2]

"Women are twin-halves of men."

Someone get Bodrul to explain these for me because the first scares me and the second confuses me but they both catch my eye.

LOL I don't know, but they sound scary and funny at the same time, haha a talking tree that hates Jews!

The only possible way that could happen is, if trees and rocks( buildings walls?) had some sort of surveillance camera with speakers, that would tell people when they spot the enemy?

A lot of hadiths have weird things like this inside it, that don't have the same feel as the Quran.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Blaine91555

I'm actually quite amazed you posted the translation. Do you understand what it is telling you to do? Even if it does not mean Christians should be killed it absolutely means Buddhists, Atheists and many others you are ordered to kill. I wonder how the Atheists feel about this??????

This is unbelievable!! I cannot believe I have to explain this again.

That is only part of the surah, this part is talking specifically about people who were at war against Mohamed at that time, that is why I said its very important to read the whole surah, reading the whole story, instead of a sentence, if you read just one sentence of course your going to get the wrong idea! thats why I showed it.
Read this please, scroll down and read it all. This man explains better than me. When I say read it, please read it fully.
www.muhaddith.org...

I already said that you will misunderstand that quote if you do not understand and study the whole surah( basically the whole chapter)

That link I gave you explains it very well, and also explains other things that may interest you (terrorists are bad and go against Islam's teachings), its all very interesting. Enjoy.





[edit on 23-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

[edit on 23-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]