USA no different from other "rogue nations"...

Just recently, on public service TV, there has been quite some series of documentaries broadcated on the subject democracy. Brilliant shows if I may express my view. Super-proffesional and well founded, no speculations or "theories" like some WTC YouTube production, but 100% fact based, massive pieces of invalueable information. I just wish that every single soul saw every single one of the films because they make change, they open eyes and awake the mind.

But my quesion after watching what I found to be the most disturbing piece Taxi to the Dark Side: How the holy flaming hell can anyone still think that the USA is in any way different from other fascist regimes such as China, North Korea and the junta of Myanmar? I see no difference, none what so ever. Of course, the US goverment seemingly treats it's own population with a little more respect, but that is no excuse. How is it even possible to be a patriot in such a country? How can anyone think that the US defends freedom, liberty and justice when this proves the total opposite?

Please watch this production and correct me if I am wrong. But I know I'm not. This is just outrageous. Twisted. Sick. Wrong.

What is terrorism? Who are terrorists? Since the US declared war on terrorism in 2001 we have heard a lot about terrorism and terrorists. They could be anyone. They could live anywhere. In the US and around the world special laws have been made that the government says helps them fight terrorism. These laws make it easier for the police to get information about people, arrest and detain them. Prisoners have been kept at Guantanamo Bay Prison in Cuba for months and even years without access to a lawyer and without ever being put on trial – Both ignoring and violating human rights.

At the same time, Abraham Lincoln one of the most important American Presidents believed that democracy stood for rule for the people, by the people and of the people. If we agree with Lincoln that individual rights are important in a democracy. How far can we fight an unidentifiable enemy within, without breaking the rules that make a democracy? Can terrorism destroy democracy?

ABOUT THIS FILM

Over one hundred prisoners have died in suspicious circumstances in U.S. custody during the "war on terror". Taxi to the Dark Side takes an in-depth look at one case: an Afghan taxi driver called Dilawar who was considered an honest and kind man by the people of his rustic village. So when he was detained by the U.S military one afternoon, after picking up three passengers, denizens wondered why this man was randomly chosen to be held in prison, and, especially, without trial? Five days after his arrest Dilawar died in his Bagram prison cell. His death came within a week of another death of a detainee at Bagram. The conclusion, with autopsy evidence, was that the former taxi driver and the detainee who passed away before him, had died due to sustained injuries inflicted at the prison by U.S. soldiers.

mod edit: fixed spelling mistake in title

[edit on 10/23/2007 by Gools]

indeed, america is THE rogue nation (as is its client state, israel). if you want a really in depth study on this i'd recomend failed states by noam chomsky.

Thanks for the tip. Will look into it as soon as I finished this god damn depressing book about WWI...

Let's discuss this, define "rouge nations". I have found a few defintions, none of which the US could fit the discription of. I would like to know what you mean by that before I go on.

Where are you from????? Public TV with No Bias??? STYKI; it's clear this is a "Hate America" post(look to the poster) and not worthy of any time....

Watch the documentary and post afterwards.
It's all I can say.

My origin is my own private business, none of yours. No offence.

Peace.

reply to post by Styki


well... how about we go with the definition of a rogue state as any nation that consistently defies international law

the USA definitely fits under that one

the reason to still be a patriot is the people not the system. the system has corrupted ... lobbyists, dishonestly ... but, if the people stood up together, it is salvageable.

it is a shame, but, without watching the video, I can agree ... I watched my once great nation fall into a terrorist state, harassing others who have the resources they want, invading the public's privacy, making non-offensive, non-violent actions crimes ... and watching things that a country who defends freedom should stand up for and help and letting it be through inaction ... why, after the first shot was fired against the monks and the people of burma, did we not go and assist the PEOPLE wanting FREEDOM form a tyranny of a military run gov't ... why? Is that not what we stand for? Or ... is that what we plan to be? Did our officials and military find those unarmed people protesting to be terrorists? Explain the Burma incident and america's inaction if you want to defend it ... I can't, and I am ashamed my nation didn't step in that first day. With 1.5 million worldwide troops on foreign soil ... we could have done something within at least the first couple days ...

well, revolution and civil war happen occasionally ... let's hope for no bloodshed.

What should we have done?

Sent a Marine expeditionary force to Rangoon? Ok and then we will have all you clowns screaming about evil imperialist Americans and how we are occupying peaceful Burma that never did anything to the US.

My new bumper sticker ribbon thing:

Support International Law Instead

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Styki

 

well... how about we go with the definition of a rogue state as any nation that consistently defies international law

the USA definitely fits under that one

That can be debated.

If your talking about removing dictators who kill their own citizens from power and opposing countries with goals of making other nations cease to exist then we need to take a look at a few international laws.

The United States is a rogue nation all right!

I get tired of these threads that try to bash my country. "America is imperialistic", "America is the terrorist", "America is a rogue nation". Its all a bunch of dung. The fact is, whenever another country needs aid, America will step up to the plate. We ARE different from other "rouge" nations in that one.......we aren't French and spell "Rogue" correctly........moving on........America is usually the biggest contributor of disaster relief to other nations, even ones considered "unfriendly", we rebuild what we destroy (hi Japan, Germany, and Iraq!), and we aren't "Fascists". As for ignoring "International Law", thats bull! A lot of what you call "International Law" was created after the great wars (WWI and WWII). Liberals would call "ignoring" international law "being progressive". Of course this wouldn't apply to America because everyone knows we are the "The Great Satan".

Look into the Keota Accords. Is this "International Law" now?

Get over yourselves, other countries NOT the USA. Whining won't get you anywhere. I don't see these other "Rogue" nations trying to help anybody internationally. Hell, these other "Rogue" nations don't even help their own people.

Rogue Nation

Oops! Did I rant?

Originally posted by CreeWolf
The fact is, whenever another country needs aid, America will step up to the plate.

Like for example Birma? Sudan? Somalia? Congo? Shall I continue?
Let me rephrase your sentence:

The fact is, whenever another country of American interest, needs aid, America will step up to the plate.

Only when it benefits the US in one or another way, the US will intervene.

America is usually the biggest contributor of disaster relief to other nations, even ones considered "unfriendly", we rebuild what we destroy (hi Japan, Germany, and Iraq!), and we aren't "Fascists".

I regret to prove you wrong (again):




Aid



As for your claim about Germany, Japan and Iraq: it is and was again of economic interest to the US. I'm not saying that the US is purely evil, but the beneficial factors are of much greater weight than the social factor for the US to do this.

As for ignoring "International Law", thats bull! A lot of what you call "International Law" was created after the great wars (WWI and WWII). Liberals would call "ignoring" international law "being progressive". Of course this wouldn't apply to America because everyone knows we are the "The Great Satan".

Torturing people is no violation of international law? Please elaborate that.






[edit on 23-10-2007 by Mdv2]

“I think there is a good reason why the propaganda system works that way. It recognizes that the public will not support the actual policies. Therefore it is important to prevent any knowledge or understanding of them.” -Noam Chomsky

“The United States is unusual among the industrial democracies in the rigidity of the system of ideological control / ''indoctrination',' we might say / exercised through the mass media.” -Noam Chomsky

"All initiation of force is a violation of someone else's rights, whether initiated by an individual or the state, for the benefit of an individual or group of individuals, even if it's supposed to be for the benefit of another individual or group of individuals." -Ron Paul

Paul/Chomsky '08 baby!

I am an American...

It wasn't long ago that I believed, naively, that America was the greatest country ever, it was the first feelings of patriotism I had, and it came after 911... Bush seemed a hero then, bull-horning at ground zero that the terrorist bastar*s would pay... How stupid those terrorists were, I thought, to strike at a country that would certainly get revenge...

Months passed and still no Bin Laden, and soon enough most of the patriotism drained out of me... just a year ago the questions finally came to me, when I watched a few documentaries about the New World Order and 911 conspiracies, course at first I thought it was a crazy idea, but slowly it became plausible... I still don't know what happened on that 911, but I know that was the day the America of my blind youth, the innocent cherubic beautiful nation I had been indoctrinated to believe in, died...

It took an entire year or research and deep contemplation to wake up, to see the real America... secret prisons, extra surveillance, Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, one government lie after another... a fraudulent war in a country that posed no immediate threat while Bin Laden, who actually had "allegedly" attacked us roamed free... Although I certainly don't agree with every conspiracy theory I've heard about or researched I know that I only discovered the tip of an iceberg...

America is a rouge nation? Perhaps. But really its a nation with a rouge government... and answer me this, what nation is there that doesn't have a rouge self-seeking government of liars? Name me one government that is really subservient to its people...

[edit on 23-10-2007 by Titen-Sxull]

Rogue suggests sovereign comparisons - so sure - why not.

I was waiting for an appropriate thread to add this recent news article pointing to America’s possible complicity in nuclear proliferation.

I think it’s pertinent and I did a basic ATS search with no hits – so hopefully also fresh, but lazy asses will have to read to get anything from it.

Best
Scrap

The man who knew too much : a CIA's expert on Pakistan's nuclear secrets,
Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark report Saturday October 13, 2007 The Guardian
www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


T.S.

not to derail, but any comment on your avatar? Just curious.

-scrap

reply to post by scrapple


to be honest, its a fake... ever since I was like 12 I've been faking UFO photos, but to avoid being part of the problem I don't post them as hoaxes or anything... makes a pretty cool avatar tho

reply to post by CreeWolf


I think it's been summed up for the most part...

Being an "angry Cree indian" doesn't make you think America is anything other than this? America's small pox blankets nearly took out your entire tribe. History repeats itself.


Don't forget your roots.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Cool! And thanks for your honesty in imagery - it's premium these days - for sure.

- and don’t be too shocked if you get a taste one day from less scrupulous ‘artists’ - who have MUCH bigger budgets and technology.


Best-
Scrap