Slaves to Credit -- Giving Up Your Life One Loan at a Time., page 7

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reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:19 PM by schuyler

What's with all this whining? The bottom line is that if you spend money you don't have, i.e.: borrow it, you need to pay it back. End of story. If you think the big banks are ripping you off, try telling Luigi you won't be paying your gambling debts because you think it's 'unfair.' The game was crooked. Somebody cheated. (Or more likely, you don't know how to play.) If you still have kneecaps after that encounter maybe you learned a lesson.

The thing is, credit doesn't have to cost you. You can get a low limit credit card to start out--Mine was $300. Use it, pay it off. Build your credit and your score. NEVER borrow more than you can pay off the next month, hence NO interest charges. You're using the bank's money for free! It doesn't take long to build up a good credit score, but doing that at a young age is part of the deal of being an adult. It's part of the program.

I know a family right now that just had to have a house on the lake. They rented out their perfectly adequate house for less than the payments, paid nearly a million dollars for this fairly crappy house, but it is on the lake. My guess is the mortgage is several thousand dollars a month, a stretch. But wait! They just had to have a boat. The $1000 boat they had wasn't cool enough. The new $30,000 used boat has coolness and speakers and goes mighty fast. But hey, the kitchen is kind of old, so they had to "re-do" that. And the truck? Well, it was worth about $2000, but wasn't good enough so they got a brand new $40,000 Silverado Duramax diesel so "we can pull the boat." And the TV? he Jones's have a big one, large screen, so they had to have one of those, too.

Then the transmission went out in the other car. Oops! $6,000. Then the kid fell out of the inflatable and broke his femur. Oops! Hope you're insured for $84,000. Ouch. Why were you going so fast? Then the guy screwed up on hs job to the point where he may lose it. Oops again! Yeah, yeah, it wasn't his fault, but he's responsible. Stuff happens. This entire bankruptcy scenario was totally preventable just by being smarter.

Now, if you do want to leave the country and go where credit isn't such a problem, that can be arranged. There are a few. At one time a few years ago Vietnam was like this. I don't know if it still is. There are a few others. In those counties credit is not a problem. You'll be entirely free of credit worries, credit scores, interest payments, and similar woes. That's because there is NO credit. You want something? Pay cash. Don't have the cash? Save it. Cool system. Why not try it today?

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:20 PM by Realtruth

Originally posted by SimiusDei
reply to post by Realtruth

True.

But, I didn't use the card on the groceries out of necessity. I did it to build my credit for the future when I knew I would need it.

I would buy about 70 bucks in groceries (and sometimes gasoline) a month and then pay it off and I built my credit up quite nicely.

Here is the best way to build credit and not get yourself into a financial mess.

Get a Debit Card, fund it, use it and when the funds you put in run out, that's it no more money. You set the limits, but all the while you will build credit.

Credit or Building Credit means nothing unless you have the means to afford the credit limit in the first place.

Just because someone can afford a monthly payment doesn't mean they can really afford the goods they are buying.

Again it is all about personal responsibility. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, because everyone wants to blame the system, but remember you had to apply for the credit card or loan.

If someone came to you with a really great deal and told you to sign here without reading the fine print would you do it?

Unfortunately, most people do. Has anyone ever really read all the info or fine print that comes with accepting a credit card???

I think that we are all going to have to start thinking and acting differently in the USA to make our lives less complicated.

I know what it is like to not have enough money for food, but there are still many alternative short term that we can exercise in the USA. Some may have to swallow a bit of pride, but that is what these programs are there for in the first place. Unfortunately many of these programs are being abused by lifelong indigents that give social aid a bad name.

Did you all know that most college students qualify for welfare?

As long as you don't abuse the system, use it if your temporarily down and out.

You sound like a person that doesn't give up, your going to be OK.

Warmest regards,

RT

[edit on 22-10-2007 by Realtruth]

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:26 PM by lukesaysmoo

Hm, $600 necessity? I find it questionable that whatever you put on creadit was trully a "necessity". $600 is too small to be a medical bill and maybe enough to be a vehicle repair, but I'm questioning that.

And everyone keeps saying a credit score is worthless and says nothing about you...incorrect. A credit score is statistical representation for the risk you represent to the company having to deal with income based on your ability to pay. No credit score means you could be an extreme risk - therefore the company must find a way to secure its holdings before allowing you the ability to borrow or use their utility (elec., phone, gas, etc only makes money when you pay). Thus a credit score allows the buisness to determine if you can regularly and in the long term provide them financial stability.

To the poster who made a loan of $18k to a family and was repaid...you're lucky.

I have a lawyer friend who loaned someone, who he deemed trustworthy, around $8k. And the guy declared bankruptcy and my friend was never repaid. Thus my friend no longer makes personal loans due to the high risk.

Second, my mother and father had obtained several small houses in the area they live in (all on credit of course). During some personal issues they sold several of the houses and made a very meager profit, but buying houses is an investment which bears unknown risk. Anyway, in order to help someone with a low credit rating and because the guy had no prior issues paying his bills on time Mom decided to sell the house to him on contract. Basically giving the guy the same credit rating she was able to borrow the money to buy the house at. Meaning he got a tremendously lower interest rate - from my Mom. In return for my Mom's efforts she now has an empty house that she's having to get a lawyer and the law to step in and go through repossesion because the low-credit-scoring idiot skipped town.

In other words, a few people get caught in the bad credit ratings that probably don't belong there, but the majority do belong there and everything that comes along with it.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:29 PM by DontTreadOnMe

reply to post by apc

Maybe you missed the OP. Losing a job because Walmart put the company you worked for out of business happens all the time in the good old USofA.
I fail to see how you think this is the employees fault or that it is not the fault of mega-companies gobbling little companies and sending jobs off shore.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
I was in pretty good shape. A 22 year old kid with PERFECT credit and almost ZERO debt. Then, it happened. The job I was working at was put out of business by the evil empire (ie: Wal-mart). This just so happened right after I placed a 600.00 charge on my card. But hey, it's no big deal right? Just get another job and get your payments sent in. And that's exactly what I set out to do. Unfortunately, it seemed that Wal-mart was responsible for putting a few other businesses under as well and sending too many people out into the already oversaturated job market.

While I agree many live above their means and assume overtime pay is their base pay, like some of the factory workers in Mchigan--where I live. Or have to have 2 plasma TV, jet skis and season tickets.

Doesn't mean everyone who has some bad misfortune (like losing a job) is living beyond their means. Or has a victim mentality.

Check out how MIchigan is these days

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some may dislike what I say next, but I truly think it had become TOO EASY to buy a home recently.
No down payment

No W-2s

No $$ in the bank

It was a recipe for failure and many used it, with predictably sad results.

Not saying that was your case, Jasn, just that it happened to too many people who assumed home ownership was guaranteed in the Constitution or something

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:36 PM by lukesaysmoo

I agree it's too easy to obtain loans. I'm 24 and walked into the BMW car dealership. I then walked out with a $25,000 loan package for my new Mini Cooper...and that's still not counting my down payment.

Gotta love being able to borrow money for cool toys tho.

And for those of you wondering, the car loan is still much less than my total borrowed for undergrad. schooling.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:38 PM by apc

If a Walmart can disrupt someone's life so much that they can't afford to pay back a $600 credit card, and that is somehow Walmart's fault, huuuuuge victim mentality. As well as an indicator of a stack of other problems in their life.

Personally I hope people like them go bankrupt. It removes their cancerous element from the markets and forces them to rely on themselves instead of their FICO score.

Unfortunately they won't think it's their fault and will look for someone to blame. In this case, that someone is Walmart.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 12:42 PM by lukesaysmoo

I just had this thought. If your job was based on a market that WalMart could put you out of a job...then 1) why didn't you notice the change in buisness going on in your place of employment? 2) If WalMart put you out of buisness...then why didn't you immediately go work for WalMart?

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:33 PM by stompk

People are missing the point.

Take the US national debt for example. Not only our do people own
unbelievable amounts of personal debt, but they also own the national debt, which we pay $400 bill a year interest alone on.

The national economy is based upon debt, stacked upon debt. In reality, there is no new money to lend, unless it is printed. And for every dollar that is printed, there is an inherent amount of interest with each dollar.

The the more borrowed, the more the burden of all of us, because our income tax goes to covering the interest on the national debt.

And the system is the same world wide.

Get away from banks. They are what we fought the revolution to free ourselves from, yet here we are 200 yrs later, enslaved to them.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:37 PM by SimiusDei

reply to post by lukesaysmoo

1. Wal-mart wasn't hiring.
2. Wal-mart would have paid me $6.15 an hour to start. On my previous job, I had put in my time and dues and was making $16.22/hr.
3. Wal-mart is the epitome of everything I hate about corporate greed, at least since Sam died.

The reason we didn't see it coming was this.

There were already two Wal-Marts in this town, both of which were on the opposing side of town so they didn't hurt us. So, what did Wal-mart do? They opened a 3rd store directly in the middle of all of us. They opened their doors with prices nearly HALF the price of the other Wal-marts in town and took every stitch of business from those of us who couldn't afford to have such low prices and stay in business.

The owners panicked and shut the stores down before they could be hurt any farther by the monopolistic monster.

It wasn't even a WEEK after these smaller stores closed that Wal-Mart jacked their prices up immensely. Then, within 6 months, they closed that store and sold the building. That Wal-Mart was opened for less than a year and was obviously opened for the sole purpose of driving the competition away. It worked and the town has suffered greatly for it ever since.

Jasn

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:42 PM by yahn goodey

reply to post by SimiusDei

approximately 9 months ago i heard on our local cbc radio station about a guy that was told by the doctors he had a terminal illness and that they doubdted that he was going to last the year after being dignosed with ?----i forget anyway this guy was single and figured he had nothing to lose so he blew every cent he had-----got bank loans out of this world and credit cards he didnt intend to make good on and blew it all but was wondering why he was feeling so great and still alive after the year of his "dying "------ finds out that the doctors had made a mistake-------and for whatever reason in canadas legal system it turns out he is responsible for his own debts------not the doctors.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:44 PM by lukesaysmoo

I don't remember anyone throwing borrowed money into the Boston harbor...or for that matter seeing where many banks existed to be able to have any level of useful control.

I do agree that the US economy is based solely upon credit. However, since we have long since stopped operating on a bartering system there's no real way to get rid of "money." Credit has been extended to people (with interest) going all the way back to the Revolution. General George Rogers Clark borrowed money from the local farmers, vendors, and buisness men in order to fianance the war in the north-western frontier. The banks didn't loan him money...others did.

So long as no one starts asking for something real in exchange for their cash or expected worth then the system can support itself almost indefinately. So what if we're all billionaires and middle clase? The money is maintained in a computer anyway...

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:48 PM by Kr0n0s

I have 0 credit cards and while its true that you cant do much without one, there are alternatives.
My bank and most banks, issues check cards (debit cards) and my purchases are limited to the amount of money that I have in the bank plus the 900.00 overdraft.
There are also cards you can get that act like bank cards, you put money into an account, use the card and recharge it when needed.
My credit is horrible, the unfortunate side effect of a marriage gone bad. Hell I cant even get roadrunner internet, without putting down a deposit but I still get along great.
I learned my lesson and if and when my credit rating is restored, I still refuse to get another card. I refuse to pay someone even MORE money for something that I cant afford to begin with and if I cant get it with cash, then I cant afford it.
I own one vehicle, a 7 year old F150 Truck that I paid cash for and I will drive it untill It cant run anymore.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:54 PM by apc

reply to post by SimiusDei

So how exactly is it Walmart's fault that you were unable to pay off your credit card which you charged something on that you couldn't afford?

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 01:57 PM by lukesaysmoo

$16 an hour to work at a place that a WalMart, open for less than a year, can drive enough buisness to shut down. Sorry dude, but I think you were screwed to start with.

You were in your early 20's (which I'm assuming was a few years ago) and couldn't have possibly put in that much time...or you were at the top of the progressive chain because no one else was willing to work there.

Anyway, I'm thinking the buisness was going down the tubes and WalMart was the straw on the camel's back. Plus, WalMart rarely, if ever, abandon's a building after a 1 year occupation. It's not within their financial plan to do so. Killing the competition is one thing, but the expense of building a building just to do that is usually far more expensive than the gain.

Personally, I only shop at WalMart when I need something quick or uber cheap. Plus, I don't like going into public places; too many people without any sense, so I buy as much as possible via Amazon.

FedEx brings it right to me.

But credit does infuse everything in our country. It's common place for them to run a credit check on people who work here, and kick anyone out if their credit score is too low. They're too much of a risk.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 02:03 PM by SimiusDei

reply to post by lukesaysmoo

Ahh another one that presumes to know what they cannot know.

Yes, the 600 dollar WAS a necessity and YES it was for a transmission repair.

Why was it a necessity? Well, had you actually READ the previous posts, you would know why.

There is NO public transportation in town and I needed the car to get to work.

But, going by your logic, I'm assuming that I should have simply not gotten the repair and thus had no way to get to work costing me my job. But alas!! It would then be my fault for not fixing the vehicle when I had the means (credit) to do so.

Your ignorance and MORONIC assumptions sicken me. No, I'm not calling you a moron, I'm saying your assumptions are moronic and, indeed, they are.

PLEASE people, I do not ask much when replying to my threads. But at least TRY to read the previous posts before you make yourself look stupid. I have answered these questions and STUPID PRESUMPTIONS several times throughout this thread and, had you read the posts, you would have known that.

For the last time, let me break it down in simple terms for those of you who have OBVIOUSLY been too busy to actually READ the thread but obviously not too busy to chime in and INSULT the majority of the posters with your high handed and BASELESS remarks.

1. I took care of my credit VERY well from the age of 18 until 22 and, with the exception of that three months I COULD NOT HELP every month thereafter.

2. I had the bad luck of a necessary 600 bill that I had no choice but to pay to fix my vehicle in order to make it to work, only for my job to be eliminated shortly thereafter.

3. I, and others, applied for unemployment several times and were denied each time with no legitimate reason given.

4. I never ONCE used my credit card to buy anything I did not NEED and I payed it off almost EVERY month.

5. Where I live, you absolutely CANNOT rent, buy or lease a home or a vehicle without almost PERFECT credit unless you have the HUGE down payment required. Not only that, but you cannot get electricity turned on, phone turned on or gas turned on without the same. Credit for me, and obviously a great deal of others in this thread, is a NECESSITY that I would be much happier without. TRUST ME!

That being that, this is absolutely the last time I dignify ANY of you with a response.

There is a huge difference in disagreeing with someone and PRESUMING TO KNOW what someone else has been through and therefore passing judgment on that person.

It may do some of you some good to click my name and find my thread titled "The ATS Motto is DENY IGNORANCE You Fools!". Once you find it, actually take about 3 minutes from your busy day of baselessly insulting others and READ the thread.

It says right on the front of the ATS main page that ATS is a forum dedicated to the INTELLIGENT discussion of topics.

Making IGNORANT assumptions and taking it upon yourself to tell someone they are wrong about what happened in THEIR OWN LIFE just because you have never personally experienced it is FAR from intelligent discussion. In fact, it's nothing more than ignorant drivel.

You people do nothing but give ATS a bad name.

Jasn

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 02:25 PM by lukesaysmoo

Sorry, but $600 just sounded too cheap to make any sort of major repair to a vehicle. I've yet to pay less than a $1000 on any of my vehicles for anything that would be deemed 100% necessary. Plus, you never said what the expense was for unless it was in some of your ranting which I glossed over because it's boring and financially uneducated.

Second as I've stated, I more than agree with you that having a good credit score is required to do just about anything in this country.

Third you were born in 1980 according to your profile. Making you 3 years older than me. I'm sorry, but what kind of job were you working that paid $16 and was put under by WalMart? A store that could easily be put under by WalMart wouldn't be paying anyone who wasn't a full-time manager that much money. And if you had the job when you were 22, I don't see how you could have possibly been a full manager. Plus that would've been 5 years ago and that was just shortly after the dot-com bust...so everyone was in a financial hurting.

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 02:34 PM by SimiusDei

reply to post by lukesaysmoo

*sigh*

Look at you, there you go again with your baseless assumptions.

I said I wouldn't dignify you guys anymore with a response if you continued showcasing your ignorance. However, this little slip of yours deserves a response.

ACTUALLY, I had worked in the same industry since I was 11 years old. Naturally, it was under the table (and most of the time not paid at all), but, I was still as much a part of the workforce as anymore else since I helped with inventory and kept the warehouse stock full.

What? You didn't work when you were 11? Well, guess what? I did and have worked almost every day of my life since then and so have almost every one of my friends. Why? Because our fathers made us "earn our keep" so to speak.

So yes, I had put in my time, albeit a good bit of that time WAS with a different company. However, I knew my stuff and the boss man knew my father and I was compensated as such.

That being said, and since I have already replied with this much, I'll answer your other question.

It was an independent electrical supply store.

If you do not live in a small town with a good deal of mom and pop businesses, then I don't expect you to understand the TREMENDOUS hurt a Wal-Mart can put on them. However, since I do not know where you live, I will not be as cocky and presumptuous as you have been in assuming that I know something about you other than what you have shown me here.

With that, I offer a piece of advice.

Don't be so arrogant as to think you can tell me about MY life, after all, I am the one that has lived it.

Jasn

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 02:40 PM by SimiusDei

reply to post by Kr0n0s

Wow! You have a $900.00 overdraft protection? That's amazing! haha

At least for me. I believe the highest offered around here is $300 and that is after a couple of years.

Surprisingly enough, the vehicle that put me in the bind was my 1999 F-150. The good ol' transmission went on her and I had to replace it with a rebuilt one, it never did run the same after that. I miss that truck.

Jasn

reply posted on 22-10-2007 @ 02:49 PM by MountainStar

SimiusDei said,

You know another sad fact? A decent number of elderly people have actually taken to retiring on luxury cruise liners. That's right, they live there year 'round.

I'm seeing more and more elderly people, around here who have no help what-so-ever. It's not like it used to be when you seen families, including dear old grandpa & grandma. Their kids have major problems of their own and their folks are fending for themselves. The cops have what they call a DWO driver here- Driving while Old!. Property taxes are Skyrocketing for no reason. Many are being taxed right out of their homes. They got to do what they got to do SimiusDei. I seen one elderly lady she must of been 90+ years old at the grocery store. She was hunched over and could hardly walk even with the walker. Poor thing had no one. Didn't want to do a Reverse Mortgage because she wanted to make sure her kids were left something when she died. Her kids live in another state and rarely even visit her. I guess they do call the sheriff's office and have a welfare check done on her periodically. Especially when she doesn't answer the phone for a few days. Many are going without food and medications so they can pay their property taxes.