More details on iraqi abuse by US Army....

Thanks alot astrocreep, that really means alot. We really do appreciate the support that we get, and we try to repay the gratitude by trying to convey themost honorable actions possible as soldiers.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Sorry to break it to you like this. It's not the point of war to die for your country, but to make the opponent/enemy die for thiers.

I don't care who or what was in the convoys way, they did what they had to, if it kept them alive, Bra #ing vo!

HOOAH!

I don't need your bravado ADVISOR. I know this answer and IMO, its a bad one. Forgive my opinion, but thats what it is.

Advisor!!!! haha i'm feeling like your prior army ..........Drill sgt? e-6, e-7? 1sg maybe? Hell yeah it's good to hear from pro army people for once who actaully know what they're talking about. What'd you do in the army? still in? gimmie a U2U. And thanks alot

heelstone, if you don't like the answer and don't like how things are, then don't post, cause things arn't gonna change, bud. this is how it works.

medic & SoldierMedic: Well, clearly both of you are desperate to justify this since you keep posting lame excuses. (though I suspect you are the same based on your spelling, punctuation and tone).

Is it in fact DoD Standard Operating procedure to run over the hood of a car in your way? Were you racing to save lives or something? Is it DoD SOP to "yell at em and threw my rifle in their face." If so, please reference me some links, I'd love to see them.

These are civilians. NOT soldiers. Of course now they're civilians who HATE the U.S.'s guts, and rightfully so. You both sound like bullies. You both sound like rather than HELPING, you are CAUSING problems. Who cleared away the car after it was destroyed? Or is that an Iraqi issue? Y'all just do the damage and then let the residents clean up? Do you figure that might cause a little bit of hard feelings? Do you think ahead at all?

medic: "And yes we had told them to move the car. screamed and yelled, and blew the horn. they refused. To us it could be that they wanna stop us to shoot rockets at us. "

HAHA, paranoid much? They didn't want to move the car so they could have had ROCKET LAUNCHERS in the car. What are you, 12 years old? Sounds to me like lame justification AFTER the fact.

"Agian you know nothing about war. out in the street, we are mostly likely to get hit by somthing. these people drive like bats outa hell. if you knew a convoy of guntrucks was coming would you just stop in front of em? judging by your posts i guess so. well we'd hit you too. You guys make me sick."

Remind me why I should care []at all what you think about me personally. Please.

SoldierMedic: "And for the record, nobody wants to be involved in an accident and/or otherwise jeopardize the good reputation that is amidst the Iraqi people that we are here to help."

Are you saying that the US Occupying Force has a "good reputation" with Iraqis? Um, based on that I doubt that you're in Iraq AT ALL. Or if you are, you're totally disconnected from reality.

Because RIGHT before that you say "we have found out that as unsafe as it is out there in the streets of Baghdad". So unsafe, but not from Iraqis. Then from what? Telemarketers?

"I thikn that overall, most of the Iraqi people are very happy as to our precense here in Iraq. "

You "thikn" wrong. Have you actually spoken to any ACTUAL Iraqis? Or did you just interrogate them?

"The problem over here is that change is something these people are not used to yet, at least for the better. We are here to change that for these people, we want the country of Iraq to be what it wants to be, and sometimes there are prices to pay for that liberty so many of these people are starting to get a taste of. "

Nice demonstration of a totally patronizing attitude. You want the country of Iraq to be what it wants to be? BS. UNLESS it's a fundamentalist government. UNLESS it's an anti-US Shi'a government. UNLESS it's a Sunni government that closes off business to the US. Unless it's NOT IN THE UNITED STATES BEST INTERESTS. Which is FAR from "freedom", if you use the same dictionary as the rest of the world.

"So I think that trying to dramatize a simple fender-bender onto a crime of humanity is irresponsible and arrogant. "

Wow I could do this all day. Scroll up and READ THE POST. INTENTIONALLY rolling a 5 ton military vehicle over the hood of a car and then striking one of the occupants with a rifle is a frickin FENDER-BENDER?

Two suggestions: Lay off the crackpipe and learn what a Spellcheck is.

Look at my posts and look at yours, and then explain to me how mine are "ignorant".

Originally posted by medic
heelstone, if you don't like the answer and don't like how things are, then don't post, cause things arn't gonna change, bud. this is how it works.

Sorry man. I won't stop posting for you or anybody else unless I'm banned for violating the TOS here at ATS. While the internet is not our nation that has freedom of speech, I do live in a supposedly free speech environment, and that means expressing my opinon on the matter. Forgive my impudence.

[Edited on 27-1-2004 by heelstone]

Originally posted by heelstone
I don't need your bravado ADVISOR. I know this answer and IMO, its a bad one. Forgive my opinion, but thats what it is.

Originally posted by heelstone
I support the troops.

Well the only thing about any war or conflict I support is the troops. As for my "bravado", get over it, I will always support those who are fighting for each other. Those troops are not fighting for Iraq, they fight to keep each other alive. The politicans fight for Iraq, those Soldiers are just as it was said, "doing thier job".

I know you and everyone else knows and understands this, but I can't help but ask, do you really?

Fact is you aren't ever going to get much support when you talk about crushing a car because it was in your way, no matter the mitigating circumstances. Thats just how it is. I am one of those who is against such things.

OK Medic.I jumped on you and I was wrong.

I'm not even really interested in this topic.What annoys me is that the US media put something out as truth and nobody bothers to retract it when it is found to be a lie.So things like Jessica Lynch being raped or Mobile WMD factories keep getting repeated as truth over and over.

You got the best excuse for not knowing and I wish you all the best in your work.

HAHAHA JAkomo! your done buddy, remember? the whole canada in bosnia combat thing? Your done posting. and if all you can do is get me on spelling....wow.. thats substance for you huh? DOD standards huh... you have made it pretty clear that you have no idea what goes on here. much paranoid? what do you watch the news ever? look my firend, in the four camps that make up 2 ACR we average 22-25 attacks a day. a majority of that being on convoys smart guy. In fact your much paranoid comment was hilarious. Yeah you've definatly been in combat. You being the brainchild you are, just keep on talking. you've lost any point you had. You really don't know about anything here do you? if you don't just admit it. And no we arn't the same person for the last time. we do know each other though. for the last time. if your gonna post try harder and stay on the subject insteada correcting my grammer. you say i'm twelve? lol. nice one cool guy.

We are not involved in the politics of future Iraq, we are here in its present. Soldiers here are not paid to think abotu the political situation. That is left for the people in Washington and for the administrative leaders over here. We see things in a scheme that fits our positions. There are times when soldiers have to do things that are unpleasant. DO not try to tell anyone who is a soldier HOW to be a soldier. You have no idea what it takes to be one, and I doubt that you have the intestinal fortitude to ever be one. You seem to me to be what is known as an "arm-chair general," a person who would rather sit back and critisize others for the actions that need to be undertaken, rather then pick up a rifle and stand at your own post. Until you are here, then you do not have a right to tell us what we need to do, and I suggest that you open up your eyes a little, and think about things in your own life before you tell us how to preserve ours. Otherwise, your opinion is just that, your own opinion, not based on fact, not based upon any perspective of experience.

And no we are not the same person. If you cannot think of anything better to say other than to tell us that we need to use spellcheck, then you really do not have anything stronger to support yourself any longer in this debate. I think that you are finished here.

medic & soldiermedic: Well if you're not the same person I suspect you may well share the same brain.

Your justifications for this incident are totally lame, that's my final point. What my combat experience in Bosnia and Rwanda have to do with this are irrelevant. What my PERSONAL and MORAL experience have to do with it are more important.

While I do pity both of you for having to be in Iraq, you're both clearly not helping the situation there at all... CLEARLY. I don't have to have been in the first Gulf War to know that, it's called BASIC HUMAN INTELLIGENCE AND COMPASSION.

Do I support the Iraqi's right to determine their own future? Yes. Do I support US troops in Iraq? Hell no, they shouldn't be there in the first place. What I do is pity them. Pity them that they are far from home, far from their loved ones, and stuck in a part of the world where the US is hated, and all of this based on lies from your Commander In Chief as to WHY.

And your innocent little "traffic incident" explains to me CLEARLY, FIRSTHAND why you are so hated. That neither of you seems to realize that any of it is wrong further underscores that point.

Thanks for making that so painfully evident, and I hope you both make it out alive and back to your families.


Calling me ignorant shows your own ignorance. You know nothing about me save what I choose to disclose. You have no idea what kind of things I've seen or been through, just like I know little about your experience. So try to keep that in mind when you try to ineffectually flame me, m'kay?

I cant believe these whining blowhards...they obviously have NEVER been in a convoy or column Jackomo..if you were in the truck I GUARANTEE you'd be looking around for the ambush while BEGGING your driver to run over cars (and probably people too)and get your azz outta there because if you sit there for 30 seconds youre dog meat...you just dont get it do you?

God bless you boys!

Originally posted by Jakomo

Do I support the Iraqi's right to determine their own future? Yes. Do I support US troops in Iraq? Hell no, they shouldn't be there in the first place.

If US troops left right now, all those insurgents would just come back into power, not allowing the Iraqi people to govern themselves.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Calling me ignorant shows your own ignorance. You know nothing about me save what I choose to disclose. You have no idea what kind of things I've seen or been through, just like I know little about your experience. So try to keep that in mind when you try to ineffectually flame me, m'kay?

What have you been through, then, that allows you to comment of their actions?


[Edited on 27-1-2004 by Esoterica]

Originally posted by Jakomo

The way I look at it is that MAYBE half of ANY Army (not just the U.S.) is filled with good, honest people who just want to help protect their country.

The other half is filled with gun nuts. Men and women who want to shoot 30mm cannons and sniper rifles and heavy machine guns. People who, if they weren't in the military, would be in jail for some type of violent crime. People who, once they are left to their own devices in the military, peer into that heart of darkness and revel in the pain and torture and death that they inflict.

These are the people who are the subject of the article.

And unfortunately for the honest half, if you keep them in a pressure cooker of war long enough, they will move to the other side and become just as violent and immoral as the rest of them.

I agree. These are the people that can ruin an entire country and it's reputation. Anyone who is already so full of anger, that they could torture and/or kill out of some twisted pleasure, shouldn't be a part of any society, much less any military. These are sick individuals. Unfortunately, the military tends to attract these types of people, and yes, other impressionable people sometimes look up to them, and even want to be like them, eventually.

Howdy folks...

First off I would like to say, you guys had every right to do what you did. That "civilian" could have been an insurgent, and just blocking the way for an ambush...

Jacko: do you support the British and other colition troops over there ??

Or is it you just don't support the US ??

medic & soldiermedic: you guys keep your heads down, and come home in one piece...ok...

I really find it unlikely that a couple bad apples in the army are gonna turn everyone into Seriel killers. I mean are you thinking about what your writing? Do me a favor. look at the general public. Murders every day. rapes every day. countless crimes commited every day. So since your a civilian, and all these other civilians are doing this to each other, your gonna start doing too right? I mean that is what you wrote. LOL so is that what you mean too?

You know, the more I read of these two soldiers, the more I think that they are quite angry individuals. These are the types I think make bad decisions, or back up their buddies in whatever horrible thing they may do. Of course, it's easy to become that way, since most military officers promote that type of barbaric thinking.

I was hoping, as medics, that you two were different than most of the soldiers with that arrogant mentality. Usually medics are a bit more caring people who don't advocate killing and acts of anger toward anyone, including the enemy. Are you not medics in civilian life? Were you only trained for this in the Army?

I'm not trying to put you guys down. I know there are things you have to do to try to stay safe, but I'm also sure there are soldiers over there that think it's funny, or easier, to just run over civilian vehicles and point guns in peoples' faces.
Sometimes, when this type of behavior is promoted, it becomes easy to abuse. Do you disagree?

[Edited on 1-27-2004 by Satyr]

LOL military officers promote barbaric thinking? HAHAHA clearly, folks, here we have some one who was not in the military. NO i was not a " medic " in the civilian world. Those are called emts, and paramedics, and they are dead end jobs that pay poorly. Also, the active army is a 24 hour job. until, your out there is no civilian life. And yes we are quite angry. At people who constantly have negative things to say about us and what we do. Duh! that shoulda been apparent. And let me tell you, yeah we're medics, but we were trained to kill before we were trained to save. And i'll always be that way. Over here it keeps you alive. But in the comfort of your home, 10,000 miles away, that obviously doesn't apply.
Please, if you have no idea what is actaully going on or how things here work, don't post. doesn't make you look to good. Oh, wait......better check my grammer...