Christians should cease and desist.

reply to post by Kacen


Jesus doesn't have his enemies blood on his hands. I don't. Greed, desire, is the cause of all death.

Every human design is flawed though. Every single one.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I beg to differ. We don't need god. I get along perfectly fine without him every day.

God needs US. If it wasn't for us, the idea of god wouldn't exist. If god didn't need us, there wouldn't be all these maudlin threats of hell for nonbelief.

God's the needy one, not I.

God oversees all that crosses your path. Even though you do not acknowledge it, you are under him.

Originally posted by Kacen
There are other Gods besides the Christian god they could turn out being correct and Bible Thumpers will feel so stupid.

and for all we know it could be a deity or concept that we haven't conceived of yet....

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and for all we know it could be a deity or concept that we haven't conceived of yet....

Yep.

Oh the humorous results.

Why should Christians be the ones to "cease and desist"? How about Muslems or Pagans of football fanatics?

I have heard humanists say many times that if one doesn't like the amoral content on television or radio that they can exercise their right to not watch or listen. The same could be said of commercial advertising, telemarketers, or religious proseletizers. If you don't want to hear the message, don't read the tracts, don't argue with them at the door, hang up the phone, turn off the message. Why should anyone be forced to keep silent because you don't want to hear what they have to say?

People have a right to their opinions/beliefs just as you do. I find it disturbingly telling that Christians are singled out as the troublemakers. I think we've become another group that is fashionable to hate; like smokers or fat people. Easy targets.

Humanists and atheists (not sure if that's one category or 2) vent their spleen about "intolerant Christians" refusing to "live and let live" and then turn around and exhibit the same behavior they claim to abhor towards Christians. I haven't been to the atheist chat room in a while so not sure if this question has been answered there or not. Maybe someone can answer it here? Why are Christians expected to live and let live and non- Christians are allowed (even applauded) for exhibiting gross intolerance toward a group they disagree with?

Advertisers think they have something of value that others would be interested in having for themselves and do their best to make others aware of their commodity. We see their blatant advertisments on TV, billboards, the clothes we wear, the cars we drive, etc. and ignore it or buy into it as we see fit. We don't question their right to advertise even if we don't like or want the product they're selling. Why should it be different for an ideaology that others feel is of value and want to share?

I agree that high pressure salesmen are annoying whether it be car salesmen or religious "salesmen". If you have already determined that what the "salesman" is selling is not of value or unnecessary to you, then say, "no thank you" and move on. You're not forced to buy something you don't want (except insurance...doh!)

A variety of ideaologies/beliefs/opinions/value systems are the hallmarks of a free society. Beware of limiting the choices available as the one you are left with may not be the one you wanted either.

Atheists tend to react that way because of the extremely noticable vocal group of Christians who proselytize, meaning to attempt to convert.

Christianity is the only major religion today that teaches -all- other religions are going to hell. Even Islam believes that Jews and Christians can get to heaven (No one else, though).

Not all Christians do that, but still the religion teaches it. That is why it is so obnoxious.

I have never seen Atheists arguing with Hindus or Jews, for instance.

Its just the Christian religion and to an extent the Muslim religion that has that obnoxious attribute. The religion itself is practically built on intolerance of other faiths.

so 2 wrongs make a right?

If you've never heard atheists arguing with jews, etc. then you don't get on the religious forums much. Christianity is the predominant religious group in America so it will, of course, be the most vocally noticed. I believe that right now (and for the past several years) Moslems have been the most intolerant religious group.

The concept/doctrine of hell is a Catholic fabrication so other non "Christian" religions would not use the threat of hell to maintain power and control. (I don't consider the system of Catholicism to be Christian at all but my thoughts on that can be found in "your beef with catholicism" thread).

All that aside, it still doesn't answer why intolerance is acceptable when practiced among atheists and scorned when practiced among Christians.

As far as Christianity being intolerant; the organized system of most religions are pretty intolerant of one another but the (Christian) bible advises that "If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men". (Romans 12:18)

Originally posted by whitewave
The concept/doctrine of hell is a Catholic fabrication so other non "Christian" religions would not use the threat of hell to maintain power and control.

Then kindly tell these Anti-Catholic Christians that I am not going to go to hell for not believing what they believe.

I've said it before; even Protestants don't have the right idea due to the Catholic church.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Kacen

The amount of people Christians have killed makes this post incredibly retarded.

History has so much blood on its hands. We as humans learn from our history, it makes us better people. If we did not learn from history, you would see religious people running around and killing people for conversion.
As well as, we need laws. If we did not have laws passed on to us, you would see many people murdering, stealing and such. I am not going to question your pagan God, if she makes you a better person then follow her to the death. As for me, I will follow my Christian God because it makes me a better person.

Originally posted by Equinox99
History has so much blood on its hands. We as humans learn from our history, it makes us better people. If we did not learn from history, you would see religious people running around and killing people for conversion.
As well as, we need laws. If we did not have laws passed on to us, you would see many people murdering, stealing and such. I am not going to question your pagan God, if she makes you a better person then follow her to the death. As for me, I will follow my Christian God because it makes me a better person.

I was directing that at his logic, not in general. So don't take it out of context, please.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


[edit on 20-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Such an enlightening addition to this thread.

[edit on 10/20/2007 by Kacen]

Originally posted by depth om
Every system humankind creates is inherently flawed. We need God.

Will that be any of the "Abrahamic religions" by any chance?

Which one do I side with, if and when they start to war aganist each other? Will you, or God stop them?

Why is God not around to settle the differences and confusions in his/her /it's system?

Why does God tolerate the corruption and abuse of this system by the insane, who seek to further their own goals and desires on the suffering and enslavement of the innocent?

All I was trying to say is that (myself included) have carried out the agenda of telling people about the Christ to the point of beating a dead horse.

I think Jesus even realized at the end of his road that he had said enough, that there wasn't any more necessity to speak about the gospel any more. If God wanted the message spread further he would/could have postponed the crucifixion a few months or years if it needed to be broadcast to a wider audience.

Today we find ourselves in the same situation. The world has heard the gospels many times over. It isn't necessary to bring it up any more. We kid ourselves thinking that we might be able to reach that one person, for they have already heard the message and it is up to God - not us - to convince that person.

Everyone is destined to believe or not anyway. If Christians did not exist, the very stones would proclaim the message until the time is up, and it is up friends.

If I knew now what I wanted to know 30 years ago I could have saved myself a lot of unnecessary trouble and worry over the whole idea of salvation. But I had to spend my entire life finding out that God's grace would be better served if Christians would quit assuming we are doing the Lord's work. We aren't. We are wasting time on something out of our control.

If I have ever condemned or spoken high and mighty to anyone on this forum, forgive me. It was all in err.

Originally posted by ixiy
Will that be any of the "Abrahamic religions" by any chance?

Which one do I side with, if and when they start to war aganist each other? Will you, or God stop them?

Why is God not around to settle the differences and confusions in his/her /it's system?

Why does God tolerate the corruption and abuse of this system by the insane, who seek to further their own goals and desires on the suffering and enslavement of the innocent?

If I had to choose one, It'd probably be Reform Judaism.

I like them the best, and generally they are the most intelligent. Seriously what other religion had the guts to just go and say "Okay, a lot of the old stuff we do doesn't apply to today and is outdated." and make it an official denomination?

I'm proud of them for having that courage. Islam in general needs that badly.

[edit on 10/20/2007 by Kacen]

Originally posted by ben91069
Today we find ourselves in the same situation. The world has heard the gospels many times over. It isn't necessary to bring it up any more. We kid ourselves thinking that we might be able to reach that one person, for they have already heard the message and it is up to God - not us - to convince that person.

I understood your point immediately, Ben.

But I had to spend my entire life finding out that God's grace would be better served if Christians would quit assuming we are doing the Lord's work. We aren't. We are wasting time on something out of our control.

No doubt! I have always felt that it is counteractive to try to verbally persuade someone into believing in GOD; such unceasing attempts to convince are not only 'empty' but literally undermine the very concept of GOD when so vehemently but ineffectively promoted.

Primarily because the ACTION contradicts the WORDS spoken - to claim that someone should follow my GOD of unlimited power and perfect wisdom, yet deny that such divine ability is sufficient on its own to convert the heart of another person is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Merely my own opinion, however.

It is 'show and tell,' not 'tell and tell!' (and then, if that doesn't work, threaten HELL...)

Not much different than trying to win a ball-game by aiming at the other team's goal!

You don't know how much this breaks my heart to see some of you say that you don't need God- that Gods needs us. I'm still learning to Bible believe me.

Did God tell us to get in WW1? No Did He tell us to Get in WW2? No. Wars have been taking place since Persia conquered Babylon. And their will be one more final battle between Good and Evil. I was shocked that this was written right in the Bible and not made up or watered down. We make the choices yet we blame God for our failures. We have a choice and given free will!!

Do you really want Jesus to return- when your not ready? The wages of sin is death.

Imagine seeing a glorious city called New Jerusalem emerge from Heaven and settle on the Mount of Olives. Then you see perhaps millions of people on the side of Satan approaching the outside city walls. Then huge waves of flame engulfs all of them- including Satan.

Do you want to see thousands upon thousands dead on a scorched field? I don't. And I don't want to see any of you on that battle field. You still have a chance just open your heart. Please..

Each day we have a chance to learn more about God. Do you want to have a day pass having your back turned to God.

When Jesus returns the wicked will perish upon the brightness of His return. Everyone will see Jesus's return-east to west. Would you rather be taken up with Jesus upon His return? Or the last thing (before death takes you) you will see his brightness of His return?

I really don't see why anyone would make this up and put it in the Bible- Seeing how serious this is.

This will be the last time I will say anything- on this matter. I suggest you think long and hard before you turn your back to God. (I will perhaps get scoffed at again with people wanting proof- that God exsists. And if I do then your on your own. I'm sorry. You can't get help unless you want it.)

For those who seriously wants to read the texts to back this up- U2U me. And I will give you the passages. Don't blow this chance. Think of each day as a chance. You have plenty of them.

If you refuse this post and post to attack me then don't bother to U2U me if your gonna carry on that God dosen't exsist.

[edit on 10/21/2007 by Leyla]

reply to post by Kacen



He wants to speed it up but a long time ago he agreed to hold true in Heaven what is true on Earth. What that means is that God committed himself to accomplish his plan while taking into consideration, the laws and agreements of mortals. He has the ability to get absolutely ridiculous, but for the sake of his children he agreed to tone it down a bit. That is why it is taking so long.

The whole mortal world is already under his control and Heaven is waiting to burst forth, however, the last holdouts, Iranian Clerics mostly, are using all their appeals to avoid the everlasting Hell they willingly chose. They are casting every spell and exhausting every legal option, to avoid receiving exactly what they asked for. It's actually quite amusing from where I sit.


[edit on 21-10-2007 by bruxfain]

Haha

I can't help but laugh when I hear people say "the abrahamic god" or "the jewish god" or the "pagan goddess" or .. the hindu god, because its all the same being!

Yes, pagans worship the same creator as christians as muslims as hindus as jews as bahai's as druze as sikhs as all religions that have a central creating entity do!

Okay goodbye!

Well then all except one are doing it wrong if thats so true.

Because a lot of different attributes are prescribed to the same god/goddess and then what about religions with many gods?

Originally posted by Kacen

Originally posted by whitewave
The concept/doctrine of hell is a Catholic fabrication so other non "Christian" religions would not use the threat of hell to maintain power and control.

Then kindly tell these Anti-Catholic Christians that I am not going to go to hell for not believing what they believe.

I've said it before; even Protestants don't have the right idea due to the Catholic church.

Kacen, I have quoted verses, given original meanings of words, translated Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew texts, and still the die-hards will have their doctrine. For the gazillionth time: THERE IS NO PLACE OF ETERNAL TORMENT! The wages of sin is death. Plain and simple. A blinking out of ones' existence. Life is a gift. Death is the removal of that gift. If one was eternally tormented then one wouldn't really BE dead. In order to experience torment you have to have the senses and mental awareness to do so. Death removes all those senses.

I don't want to derail this thread into a doctrinal argument about hell so, for those who are interested, I can direct you to threads where this has been discussed before.

In the Christian concept, Christ is the head of the body and the body is composed of believers. Christ started a work in mankind and left the rest of the work to the body (us). Part of that work was to "go and preach the gospel (good news) unto all the earth". That has been done but occasionally people need reminders. Especially, due to the corruption brought in by Catholicism, the good news has been turned into "bad news", ie: you're going to hell if you don't genuflect.

Before all the Catholics on the board rise up in righteous indignation and pray for hellfire and brimstone to rain down on me, let me say that it is not Catholic believers that are referred to here but the system of errors known as Catholicism. Not only that but Catholicism was a consolidation of the early Christian church errors.

I could go on about Christianity for days so I'll just sum it up with: despite all the flaws within the Christian RELIGION, the Christ is still "good news" and, while the doctrine of christian religion has been spread all over the earth, the good news has not. In fact, those who think they've heard the good news associate it with religion and don't want to hear anymore so much speaking is required to get past that preconception. For that reason and because it is a shame to christians to have the blood of unbelievers on our hands for lack of warning them of the consequence of sin. some of us will never "cease and desist".