HPD officer shoots, kills naked man who chased him

HPD officer shoots, kills naked man who chased him

www.chron.com

A Houston police officer used his Taser on, then fatally shot a combative, naked 29-year-old man Thursday afternoon in northwest Houston, police said.

The man, identified by relatives as Raymond Smith Jr., stopped his pickup next to the officer's cruiser in a median in the 6000 block of T.C. Jester near DeSoto. The officer, who police would not identify, had just ticketed another motorist.

Activist Quanell X said he had talked to an eyewitness whose account of the incident differed from that of police.

(visit the link for the full news article)



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[edit on 19-10-2007 by Dr Love]

This story smells like you wouldn't believe. Last night on the local news they said the officer had tried to use his taser, but it malfunctioned. Now in the paper this morning they report that the officer did in fact use his taser and it had no effect on the suspect. I guess you could argue that the taser fired into the guy, but no voltage, and that could be considered a "malfunction". Still, the guy was naked, no weapons at all.

That along with contradicting accounts from eyewitnesses should make this an interesting case.

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Dr Love]

If a naked guy was chasing me I'd probably shoot him too.

The officer's Taser had no effect on Smith, Abad said.
"The male is undressed completely, turns around and starts chasing the officer,"
"The suspect gets up after being shot," Abad said, "and goes into the patrol car attempting to leave
Smith was shot twice, but continued to struggle with officers and was Tasered again.
Court records show Smith had a criminal record dating back to 1995 — eight convictions, half of them on drug charges.

This guy had to be hopped up on some serious drugs.
He took a taser shot, two gun shots, and was still fighting…
Defiantly drug related.


[edit on 10/19/2007 by defcon5]

You'd be amazed where you can hide a gun!

Yeah it smells Doc but what was the alternative? A wrestling hold? A punch to the face? A little pepper with your salad sir? If one feels threatened I think arm chair quarterbacking is not very effective.

Becker

I'm sure drugs played a part. The guy must have been on angel dust or something.

The question I have is, do officers ever shoot to incapacitate anymore, or is it just a killshot?

Peace

I can't believe, in this age of radios and the ability for many, many officers to overwhelm and suppress a threat, that this naked man had to be shot and killed. Obviously he had problems, yes, but, with backup just a radio call away, he could of fought him without the Taser or the gun. The "shoot first, figure out the problem afterwards" is getting rampant.

Cuhail

reply to post by Dr Love


I don’t think police ever shot to incapacitate, it was always to kill. If they plan on incapacitating you they would have used chemical spray or their ASP/Nightstick in the old days, chemicals and tasers now of course.

Originally posted by CuhailI can't believe, in this age of radios and the ability for many, many officers to overwhelm and suppress a threat, that this naked man had to be shot and killed. Obviously he had problems, yes, but, with backup just a radio call away, he could of fought him without the Taser or the gun. The "shoot first, figure out the problem afterwards" is getting rampant.

Maybe we cause our own problems in this though too. If two 9mm shots and a taser would not bring this guy down, how many cops using physical force would it have taken?
So let’s say that six or seven cops had jumped on him, then what would the headlines have read?

Maybe something like:

“Naked Man Brutally Beaten by Seven Police Officers.”

So what’s the solution?

Sorry if a naked man is chasing me and a taser either didnt work on him or just didnt work, then yes a gun is the next option.

Comeon there has to be something wrong in the first place for him to be naked, also by the time backup got there he could have been dead if the guy was truely hopped up on something.

reply to post by defcon5


Personally, I'd rather be beaten down by seven officers than shot dead by one. There IS a solution. I just don't have it. I have suggestions and I ask questions of my Police officer friends. As far as what I've asked? I asked one of my good friends, a Lake County (IL) Sheriffs Deputy, why a seeming nice guy in any given situation, goes into "Cop Mode" and turns into a completely different animal. He said "We are trained to turn into a cold, calculating machine with intense focus and overwhelming authority when duty is called upon". I asked him this after seeing him turn into something else while we were talking amicably at a gas station and a fight broke out between two drunk guys on the other side of the station. My good friend, the youngest deputy ever hired by the LC Sheriff's Dept; "switched it on", broke up the fight (without calling for backup or shooting/TASERing anyone) and "switched it off" when the ruckus was over, turning back into my buddy.
He told me it is the discipline that turns on. Trained discipline.

That's okay. He's a good cop with a good head on his shoulders. I've known him and his brother for twenty years. I watched his interest in joining the Police mature and grow and I watched him make decisions to educate himself on what he needed to know to become a good cop. I hope he stays that way too. He's a good kid.

Cuhail

Originally posted by Dr Love
The question I have is, do officers ever shoot to incapacitate anymore, or is it just a killshot?

That's presumptive. What evidence is there that the officer was aiming to kill?

They teach police officers that if they are going to use their weapon to shoot to kill. That means a double-tap in the center of mass.

Otherwise they use non-lethal, PR-24, mace, group force.

No cop shoots to wound...ever. Only time that happens is if he misses.

Originally posted by ATruGod
Sorry if a naked man is chasing me and a taser either didnt work on him or just didnt work, then yes a gun is the next option.

Comeon there has to be something wrong in the first place for him to be naked, also by the time backup got there he could have been dead if the guy was truely hopped up on something.

Are you serious? The only 2 options cops have are shoot with the tazer or shoot with the gun?

No. There is an entire ladder of use of force by police officers. Tell me, before tazers, did cops just shoot people? Gun is NOT the next step of force. He still had chemical, hands-on, baton. If you're going to kill someone, you better be able to show that your life was at an immediate stake.

It saddens me to hear how little life means to some people.

Dr Love,

Officers can do whatever they want.

As seen here and numerous other recent infractions by police officers, they will continue to behave how they see fit.

My 2 cents.

I think a lot could be learned if there is a ticket for another stop like the officer stated. The eye witness may have mistaken that stop for the officer stopping the man. Could be the man knew the person or thought he knew the person that was pulled over and stopped also. If not, what was this guy doing.

I grew up in Houston and lived there many years of my life. It is best not to deal with the police unless one must. Interjecting oneself into a police situation is nuts.

I really suspect something odd went on for things to have turned out the way they did. Without the original person being stopped and ticketed, things don't look go for the current story.

I predict this cop loses their badge and may get some jail time to boot. I think incidents such as these could be prevented if every cop knew judo.

Actually in my state it is required that a officer applies either a chemical agent, or a taser before he is allowed to apply physical force of any kind. Here it’s a law and in the use of force matrix.

It's great how some people have to bring up him being naked as if being naked constitutes being murdered.

This shoot to kill bull# is out of control. Pop the guy in the leg and see how well he's able to chase you. If that kills him, which it shouldn't unless you have absolutely no back up coming within the next five hours, then I guess that's just how it happens and it's unfortunate.

But to kill a guy and act like there was no other option - that's just plain dumb and a flat out lie.

Police are venturing into the role of law enforcement rather than serve and protect.

Police are meant to SERVE and PROTECT the law. They're meant to SERVE and PROTECT innocents. People are INNOCENT until proved guilty.

In a "free country" enforcing the law above and beyond it's original intent should not be tolerated.

But I guess just like the concepts of serve and protect, and innocent until proved guilty, the free country concept has gone right out the window.

don't cops carry batons any more.]