San Francisco Wants to Help Junkies Shoot Up

Why am I not surprised? What the hell is this country coming to?

Originally posted by Legalizer
They've had clean needle heroin centers in Europe for decades, has Europe collapsed? No.
Most of the comments about any progression in the drug policies of the United States are fear based ignorance.

But for the paranoid, here's a thought, if you were an evil government willing to spread a new and virulent disease like MRSA, whats an easy way to do it? Might I suggest a clean needle heroin center?

Heroin is currently cheaper than cigarettes, cheaper than milk, good thing we liberated Afghanistan.

Yes, but you have the second highest heroin users in the world, after China. I am guessing you are happy as long as addicts have a nice warm place to shoot up at? Yes, that sounds very right. I say quite spending money on addict centers, places where crack heads can relax and shoot up, and start spending it on the homeless, or start helping out orphans and such. Since when did it become okay to shoot heroin?!

It is very simple, there will always be drug addicts of some kind.

Prohibition hasn't worked in the past, and it isn't working now. What else can a responsible city do, but to help some of the negative effects of these addicts rather then throwing away money on the useless anti-drug movement.

reply to post by robert z


i dont take any drugs as of yet and have no plans to----- not even an aspirin.if they didnt sell booze in the liqueur stores i wouldn't drink either.even the food we eat i avoid food from china and mexico-------too many stories in the news about unsanitary conditions and e-coli.you only are as good as whats left of your brain and physical health------why take chances with potential poisons?drug dealers should be executed in public---------you'd only have to kill a few before the drug problem would start to diminish.after these guys shoot up in government sanctioned facilities-----what do some do next ------get out on the highways with us driving an 18 wheeler perhaps ?

I suppose the intentions are good. However, one of the problems that I have with ideas like this is that the proposers of them never think about the consequences of the "solution." So, your going to have these facilities where people can go to shoot up using clean needles? You're going to have every curious kid around the state going into these places bumming drugs and needles off of these people... Don't believe me? Watch and see what happens.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by robert z
reply to post by MajorMalfunction

 

From a legal standpoint, how could they possibly justify NOT arresting the junkies and then go out and arrest anybody else for illegal possession?

That would violate the equal protection rights under the Constitution. The only way this could possibly work is if they legalized drugs, or stopped arresting anybody.

Money talks, and well, morals walk.

Honestly, either legallize it and release all the "wrongfully accuse" in the state and county jails, justifiably named so because allowing it in one place means you must inevitibly allow it in another citys in CA. It is a persons choice as to whether or not they choose to destroy their body with the use of chemicals. They will do it whether you would or not, should they choose to as it is their own right as an individual.

I do not condone the use of any of the the said drugs, but I do support the legalization of marijuana.The only, ONLY, reason mary-jane is illegal is because:

A. Cigarette companies lobbied it because it would have outsold tobacco.
B. The federal government couldn't tax it, because anyone who smoked would grow their own.
C. Reefer Madness, which was total BS!

All that said, they need to rethink allowing "shooters" a safe haven, or risk seriously reprocussions from the local populace about the alarming increase in the number of junkies.

-Knightshadowz

(Editted: Can't type today)

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Knightshadowz]

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Knightshadowz]

Good..Get all the junkies in there then let the DEA track them to their dealers. Better yet RFID the junkies and follow them.

reply to post by Equinox99


I agree with you completely. It seems more like they are saying "The homeless adults and kids mean nothing", "forget child welfare those kids are alive even if barely", "all those people out there not getting the proper medical care are not worth our time and money".

Bottom line we live in a country that would rather set up a cozy place for drug addicts who MAKE the choice to do drugs at some point and time. Yet will do little or nothing for the kids out there who need it or the people without proper medical care.

I for one would rather my tax dollars go to a national form of heath care available to all citizens, than for a place for addicts to shoot up.

These addicts do choose to do drugs it is their fault they are in their situation. It is not the fault of an orphan for being where they are. Nor is it always the fault of someone who is without health insurance and unable to get proper medical treatment. People do get laid off do to job cut backs, the elderly are pretty much forgotten and left to starve or live on hardly income each month. Even the homeless always to blame for their situation though they might have some more control at times than the others I mentioned.

As for people worried about a safe place for their kids to play here is an idea step up and get the drug addicts out of your area yourself. If enough people get together instead of cowering in the background or sitting back watching the brain juicing box they could run the addicts off. Roaches like addicts will “live” in places where people let them. Keep your house clean no roaches will stay the same goes for your neighborhood. As for not knowing what it is like to have an addiction been there too I quit smoking nearly two years ago, I still think about them and crave them at times. The difference is I CHOOSE not to follow that craving.

I agree that jail is not the place for an addict as you can get drugs there just as easy as on the street, but if you keep the drug out of the system long enough it is easier to overcome than if you just let someone continue on with no help.

Raist

It's pretty obvious from reading the replies which people live in the real world where drug addiction happens, and those that live in a dream/media influenced world where drug addicts are evil, evil people but if you ignore something long enough it will go away.

Drug addiction is here and it ain't going anywhere soon. You may not like it or even understand it but you are going to have to either accept it happens or just bury your head in the sand.

I was a heroin addict for 4 years (incidentaly four of the very best and very worst years of my life) so have a pretty thorough understanding of this subject.

This is a step in the right direction.
The obvious and inevitable solution is to decriminalise the drug and supply government controlled and taxed drugs (thereby destroying the billion dollar black market and ensuring a clean and relatively safe supply) to registered users.

The high cost and illegality of heroin is the cause of 90% of the problems associated with drug addiction. Once heroin is seen by people as less of a "rebelious" thing and more of a medicinal treatment it will lose it's appeal.

Drugs are bad MmmmmKay.

I'm reading through this entire thread thinking...who the heck wants to shoot up in front of big brother? I have a feeling these rooms will get little use.

I don't think this is a very good solution, however when it comes to drugs, there really isn't a good solution. Drugs will always find their way into the country, people will be able to find them if they really want them. But I feel that if a person makes a decision to do drugs, then they should face the legal consequences that come with it. Not have a safe haven where they can shoot up.

reply to post by myowncrusade


So it would make it better to condone their drug use? Why do we make drugs illegal, yet we allow these people to use drugs in a government facility? Heroin is a want not a need, therefore they do not need it.
They have the power to change their lives, if they do not want rehabilitation, or go to the programs the government offers them, why should we spend more time, money and effort to make their experience even better then it is?

Mod Edit: Discussion of Illegal Activity - Please review this link

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Duzey]

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
I'm reading through this entire thread thinking...who the heck wants to shoot up in front of big brother? I have a feeling these rooms will get little use.

I don't think this is a very good solution, however when it comes to drugs, there really isn't a good solution. Drugs will always find their way into the country, people will be able to find them if they really want them. But I feel that if a person makes a decision to do drugs, then they should face the legal consequences that come with it. Not have a safe haven where they can shoot up.

The problem with that (bury your head) argument is that YOU will have to deal with the consequences of addicts:
A) being unable to afford the high black market prices of the drug (probably turning to crime) and
B) having nowhere safe clean and controlled to take the drug.

reply to post by Equinox99


It's not about making the addicts "experience" better. It's about making your life as a straight, clean citizen easier. If these things are put in place properly you will no longer have to worry about being mugged by a junkie on your way home because they don't need to mug you for drugs money.

Eventually the black market will dry up to a niche and new drug users will be almost zero.

As for the "they can change their lives, it's their choice blah blah" argument. Yes of course they can but most choose not to for many reasons.

The Netherlands are leading on this problem and they are finding it works.

www.drugpolicy.org...

Prohibition just doesn't work. It's been proven time and time again.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by myowncrusade]

reply to post by myowncrusade


They won't mug us? Yes, because if we build them a center they will all be much nicer. Well back to reality, in fact you will see a higher crime rate around those blocks. What will they do if they have no money? Hmm, let me guess. . .mug someone walking home. Some will walk in and grab the needles to go, therefore when they use them, they will toss them out outside the building.
I don't think we are leaning towards the right choice, I think we are encouraging more people to stay on the same route. The message we are sending is this:
If you shoot heroin, then you have a nice clean environment to shoot at.
I mean come on, they could not do something better with that money?

Eventually the black market will dry up to a niche and new drug users will be almost zero.

I am sorry I had to comment on this quote. Why will the market dry up? There will always be new users, there will always be heroin shipped from other countries. Can you elaborate on how and why it will dry up?

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Equinox99]

reply to post by Equinox99



I suggest you read the link I posted.

I don't think "shooting galleries" for an illegal substance are a great idea, but it will help the police identify known users.
Legalisation is the only way forward and will happen. I do appreciatte your "knee-jerk", "drug users are scum" attitude but think a little understanding goes a long way.

If black market drug dealers are pushed out by the government supplying cleaner, cheaper better heroin the black market will crumble. I can't imagine a situation where the government will say "come try smak, it's ace" but if they control the supply and distribution of the drug (don't forget cheaper, better, easier etc..) then there will be far far fewer dealers trying to make money (the entire reason for dealing drugs) to push them on "new" users.

Make sense?


[edit on 19-10-2007 by myowncrusade]

reply to post by myowncrusade


All I am saying is opening these centers are a big mistake, unless of course the police use it to their advantage and act fast on catching the drug ring. If this is only being put in to support the "clean" use of needles, then it is very wrong.


Mod Edit: Discussion of Illegal Activity - Please review this link

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Duzey]

reply to post by Equinox99


Sorry equinox I edited my post while you replied, please read ^^. I think you may find there is no "drug ring". Its a massive, massive industry and taking down a couple of dealers isn't going to stop it.

What is wrong with a little damage reduction? Or do you think all smack addicts should be put on an island, then bombed.

Incidentally, it is estimated over 70% of heroin addicts have an IQ over 120 (weird huh?). I will find the source for that and post in a minute. (Mine is 135, used to be higher before the smak :p )

This thread will be shut down soon as ATS do not condone threads advocating legalisation of drugs apparently. Rumours of genocide are OK but drugs are bad mmmmk!

reply to post by myowncrusade


i am sorry you had a problem with heroin or got to the point that you were not afraid or didnt care if it killed you but what i am interested in doing is making sure nothing like this----not even cigarettes----gets sold anywhere to anyone-------prevention is better than the cure or death.

reply to post by yahn goodey


Thanks Yahn.
I dont think anyone is capable of quashing human curiosity enough (even GWB and his fkd up dictatorship) that we don't try psychoactive substances in the quest for greater knowlege.

We only move forward by pushing boandries. I don't regret my time as an addict at all. I'm a better person for it, for sure.

'm just happy I can contribute to this debate from an educated position.

It's a good thing, I hope your not insinuating otherwise. Canada has similar programs and it decreases the crime rate by the thousands. LA needs it to clean up the gangster activity.