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Fibrin

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posted on Oct, 25 2007 @ 10:21 PM
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I don't think any outside interference controls our personality. Some big hand from the sky can't point to a thing and say "this is what makes you happy." To say a god picks what makes us happy only gives a reason for people to do horrible things. If a serial killer is happy torturing and maiming people, your reasoning says a god approves, when all moral code your god supposedly teaches points to the opposite.

Free Will Forever!



posted on Oct, 25 2007 @ 10:32 PM
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SR, im talking about real joy, not evil and harming others. Innocent joy.

Serial killers are evil and dont have any graces. Innocent happiness im talking about SR.

" free will forever "

yea whats the point? You have free will, and so do I. I want to choose to love Jesus beyond measure, hopefully I can become worthy enough to make it.

So free will forever, I agree.

peace.



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Madness MM did not refute the trinity on the body thing. Thats what the 3 points are for, its a mystery of the faith you dont have to believe but its not by chance the body is like this.


re-read what MM said on the issue, it's quite obvious that her arguments were correct



God chooses certain times (to uphold faith) to reveal certain mysteries as he pleases.


why would god need to reveal things to uphold a belief based on lack of evidence?



Madness you keep saying prove it was created?

That doesnt make any sense. The proof is in the body parts them self. You have to have deepness to see the obvious.


...nothing is self evident in that manner.
science has a way for things to come about naturally, you cannot refute the scientific arguments and then you simply claim that your argument is self evident

here's an argument: this text is red, you have to have the deepness to see the obvious

it's the exact same thing that you're doing



of course if you want to be unsincere and deny everything, you will deny everything.


i deny that which rests on no evidence, which is a very sincere position



People can clearly see that the body parts mentioned above, are not only amazing but were created for a reason.


prove it



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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Are you still on about this ridiculous cross in the body thing?

OK, so why did we have lateral symmetry before there was even Christianity?

You do have to prove it and you have not. The burden of proof is on the one making the statement and you've done nothing but found a pattern where there is none, just like someone seeing the face of Jesus in the clouds.

We have lateral symmetry because we are descended from creatures that also had lateral symmetry, all the way back to a starfish like thing. It's why we have a head and four limbs -- starfish like ancestor had five appendages.

There is no cross on the body. if anything, it's a triangle. Since it's a triangle, does that mean god is gay? Or that the Subgenius are the correct religion?

No, it means we evolved from a five pointed animal. You can find a cross anywhere you look, bisecting lines are common in nature. it doesn't mean it has anything to do with the cult of nailing a guy up on a cross and worshipping his pain for two millenia.

Anyway, this assertion is coming from someone who thinks that women should cover up because he himself can't control his baser urges. So I really have to declare, the source is not credible.



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

I want to choose to love Jesus beyond measure, hopefully I can become worthy enough to make it.



And this statement all on it's own tells us you are not worthy enough to make because the truth is all one needs do is believe on Jesus.



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

SR, im talking about real joy, not evil and harming others. Innocent joy.

Serial killers are evil and dont have any graces. Innocent happiness im talking about SR.


And what if the serial killer derives real joy (as you put it) from what he does?
Innocence is an illusion. Everyone's got some evil dormant within them and within their control. Innocence was a concept conceived by man.


" free will forever "

yea whats the point? You have free will, and so do I. I want to choose to love Jesus beyond measure, hopefully I can become worthy enough to make it.




You misunderstand me. I say free will forever, as in there is no god programing my actions. I am happy doing things I enjoy because it is me choosing what I do. Not some uptight omnipotent being who's a walking contradiction.


peace.


"peace"
yea what's the point? The world is a place of hostilities peace is going to get eaten alive. I'd rather fight everyday in truth, than live in the peace of lies. (aka "Jesus's love").



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 09:41 PM
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SR, I (choose) to believe in Christ. At the end when you see my life in review you will understand why.

I am completely happy as well choosing to believe in God.

You would agree wouldnt you that if someone finds happiness in being a serial killer that person is completely evil right?

Their is a (good) happiness and a (bad), bad being hurting others. You can choose to be happy dojng whatever you want, whether it be simple fading pleasures or whatever, but im talking about a deep happiness with God.

Do I not have the right to believe in God?

Oh and innocence is someone who is harmless and undefiled, looking through my view, someone without sin.


Major M.

The body has 3 points in a triangle.

The heart is on the Left side.

The bible states over and over that Christ sits at the right hand of God.

The opposite of the side the heart is.

Belly button, which (perfectly) intersects the top two parts represents the holy Ghost.


If you would read the post major, im not saying you have to believe it, but its not like this for no reason, I believe its a mystery of the Faith.

Saying its not amystery doesnt prove it false. the reader can choose for themselves.


" Jesus love "

yea, you will except your mothers love right but not Gods? Do you believe in God major?

peace.



[edit on 26-10-2007 by JesusisTruth]



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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" I deny that with no evidence "

No madness, you wont give any thing a chance, not the miracles, not the deepness of creation, nothing.

If God did prove himself, and you knew it, and he said.

Ok so now that you know I exist, you have to become spiritual and stop sinning.

would you believe or just become a satanist?


Oh and MM, I said the indents of the body from belly button to chest, breast to breast, seem like they have a cross formation..


BUt my main point is the triangle trinity thing, only because the heart (father) is on the left side.


" I can choose what I want to do "

Yea, so can I. and im completely happy.

are you saying sin is happiness? Or a simple lets say masturbation?

Is that going to make me happy?

Look, I know souls who would spend whole days masturbating 5 times a day, like drones sitting in lust. Thats not life.

Just because we have commands, doesnt mean we cant be happy.

My Dad gave me commands and rules, and (thank) God he wasnt a slouch and responsible.

Yet.

I was completely happy, now that I look at it, im glad he made me work and gave me rules.

peace.



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Kacen
I believe in evolution but also that it wasn't random but created by my own deity.

I believe she guided it, of course that is not a valid answer for you.

But I thought I would still state my belief on it.


Hey Kacen, just remember I'll back you up at Judgement when you have to explain all this pagan stuff to the Creator entity.


I will be in your corner! trust that.



posted on Oct, 26 2007 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruth
 


I really don't give a rat's arse whether people believe what I believe or not

JIT?

I've always beleived.

I don't care if I lose a few friends along the way because I said that.

"Are we serving HIS Glory...or our own?"

(paraphrasing)

Thesolonians: "Lean NOT on our own understanding...but trust in HIM."

TheDuckster is not here on the ATS/BTS/PTS boards for a POPULARITY CONTEST.

I ask this of everyone:

"Are you here...for YOUR GLORY ONLY?"





[edit on 26-10-2007 by TheDuckster]

[edit on 26-10-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

" I deny that with no evidence "

No madness, you wont give any thing a chance, not the miracles, not the deepness of creation, nothing.


could you please start directly quoting me instead of pseudo-quoting me?
seriously, it gets on my nerves...
anyway, that was a digression before i even started

show me evidence of the miracles...
padre pio with his acid washed stigmata?
aquinas flying to the top of a church...
prove them, i will believe that they happened, just like anything else in the world. i'll believe in anything that can be proven to exist.



If God did prove himself, and you knew it, and he said.

Ok so now that you know I exist, you have to become spiritual and stop sinning.

would you believe or just become a satanist?


the spiritual thing wouldn't be too hard... and neither would the stop sinning part.
though i'd have to ask god what the deal is with caring about what people do in their bedrooms... i would actually try to get the morality from the direct and enlightened source their instead of relying on the petty and arrogant religions that have arisen on this pale blue dot.



Oh and MM, I said the indents of the body from belly button to chest, breast to breast, seem like they have a cross formation..


LATERAL SYMMETRY



BUt my main point is the triangle trinity thing, only because the heart (father) is on the left side.


what about people who are born with their heart on their right side? it happens...and considering the number of people on this planet there are probably millions with the condition.

are they the spawn of satan or something?



" I can choose what I want to do "

Yea, so can I. and im completely happy.

are you saying sin is happiness? Or a simple lets say masturbation?

Is that going to make me happy?


sin? sin is an arbitrarily defined concept of wrong actions.
again, how does masturbation hurt anyone?



Look, I know souls who would spend whole days masturbating 5 times a day, like drones sitting in lust. Thats not life.


you're right, that person needs to find something better to do than masturbating 5 times a day...
maybe get a hobby.
but occasional masturbation isn't wrong



Just because we have commands, doesnt mean we cant be happy.


but we only have commands from ignorant bronze age nomads...
not ones from some enlightened deity.



My Dad gave me commands and rules, and (thank) God he wasnt a slouch and responsible.

Yet.

I was completely happy, now that I look at it, im glad he made me work and gave me rules.


have you ever tried to follow ALL the commands and rules of the bible?

try it for a year, let's see how happy you are.

all of them, every single one... no exceptions



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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i guess it depends how you look at the body.
is it cool that blood clots and we have fingernails? sure

our body as many weak spots that if hit can KILL us.
our bodies are pretty fragile.

how many people before 50 years olf do you know that have bad bones and joints?
i had to have my first disc replaced when i was 21...

what about the exposed throat? a shot upwards to the nose can kill you..

males testes seem to be awfully exposed...i think as painful as it is, ole god would have tucked them dudes up in there or wrapped em in bone or something.

it don't take much to poke an eyeball straight out.
can rip an ear off with about 15-18lbs of pressure
the back of the head where the skull meets the spine is pretty weak.

our wrists..pretty easy to get cut and bleed out.
the large, virtually unprotected MAJOR artery's in our neck, arms, and inner thighs.
slice that thigh in the right spot and you're gonna be dead in about 20 seconds.

i think the human body is amazing. i also think it has a LOT of flaws. those are all flaws we can see too.

we don't know what is going on inside of us...we could all be rolling with some serious, terminal ALS type disease that just has not presented yet....

i don't think we are as fantastic as some think...

hok me up with some armor like an armadillo. gimmie some sonar like a bat and let me hear other humans upwards of 80 miles away like a whale.
let me get some nigh vision and some strangth like an ape. i'll also take speed and agility like a puma...

those are fantastic animals.
we are mediocre.

our huge brains made us and the world what it is......that is NOT a good thing.



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Guess what? Lateral symmetry can go terribly wrong! What god would do these things to an innocent? Either there's no god, and evolutionary mistakes take the blame, or god is a bit of a sadist.

How can a perfect being make such mistakes? Or is one of those ridiculous arguments that it's the sins of the baby's parents that caused the biology to break down?



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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I dont know why some things go wrong, but what goes right is amazing. without the diseases and such the human creation is amazing.

If some dies early, that doesnt mean anything MM. It all matters where the soul goes. If someone is sick early they still can make it to heaven.

This life is very young, and short, and all that matters is the afterlife..

The body parts that God made that I posted, you can refute all you want, but you can clearly see they were made for purposes.

The stuff that goes wrong for suffering, has a purpose too, as God wants us to carry our cross after Christ.



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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madness madness madness...

" try and keep commands for a year "

My God why..

Madness after a while when you keep his commands, he enters you, and you (dont) desire to sin anymore.

So the sins that would make you happy for ten seconds, now you dont wnat to go near...

The ten commands are simple rules, their not hard to keep.

The biggest one is not commit adultury.. that people struggle with. God just doesnt want you to cheating on a wife or messing families up by cheating ect...

everything else are simple rules for peace.

He doesnt command madness to (not smile). Laughter and joy are gifts of the holy ghost.

So yes I can keep the commands for 100 years and still be happy.

Look, a simple orgasm is pleasurable for an instant, but if you reduce this to happiness, thats the ultimate shallowness.

If I dont want to do these things, then how will doing them make me happy?

Like some people go to parties all the time.

Ok thats great.

But to me personally, I like staying home with my animals and watch a fottball game or something.

So everybody has different happiness. You understand?

peace.



posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 09:42 PM
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Duckster what are you talking about?

" Ive always believed "

Dont emphisize the last 2 words. You believe because of Gods grace, not yours, but the father has drawn you to Jesus and his church if you beliveve in his church.. Him and his church go together.

I havent always believed. I used to blaspheme the eucharist when a child by joking around with my brother calling it a potatoe chip, we were completely non religious as children.

So the change came from God. Now I see the eucharist as spiritual life.

Duckster, im not trying to make freinds here. Nobody likes me here for the most part. I want people to believe in God who loves them.

Im not here for a popularity contest. I dont pay attention to the freinds foes things, that means nothing to me. It is part of a self image, I dont care for it.

When I said, you can choose to believe or not.


Im talking about the Trinity on the body. The trinity everybody has to believe to make it I believe, but the mystery of the implanted on the body is not a doctrine.

Its a mystery of the faith. These 3 points people can choose to believe in it or not, but its not like this for no reason.

The heart is on the left, and the right side represents

" Sit thou at my right hand "

Whjy would God say this? He doesnt I presume have hands. But this mystery is imlanted on our bodies.

People can choose to see that as a mystery or not.

" do I serve my own glory "

I am worthless without God. If I have any goodness its from Jesus. To say you are free from all selflove, you would be lying to yourself.

hidden self loves exist in everybody, we are all imperfect.

peace.



posted on Oct, 28 2007 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

madness madness madness...

" try and keep commands for a year "

My God why..

Madness after a while when you keep his commands, he enters you, and you (dont) desire to sin anymore.

So the sins that would make you happy for ten seconds, now you dont wnat to go near...

The ten commands are simple rules, their not hard to keep.


ok...you honestly didn't get the point i was making. i meant following every single one of the rules laid out in the bible. all of em, not just the 10 commandments.

i don't think you follow them all



The biggest one is not commit adultury.. that people struggle with. God just doesnt want you to cheating on a wife or messing families up by cheating ect...


actually, the biggest one is to only worship one god..



everything else are simple rules for peace.


no, no they aren't
when god commands a genocide, it isn't for peace
when the bible outlines slavery practices, it isn't for peace
the misogyny commanded isn't about peace


what about the whole monotheism thing? how is that about peace?



He doesnt command madness to (not smile). Laughter and joy are gifts of the holy ghost.

So yes I can keep the commands for 100 years and still be happy.


but you DON'T keep everything outlined in the bible. i can assure you of that.

there are rules in there that you don't even know about, so how can you keep them?



posted on Nov, 1 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Jesusistruth,
as i said before, its clear you don't understand evolution. how can you refute something if you don't understand it? i would be willing to buy you a book on the basics and beauty of evolution.

you talk about the afterlife being the only thing that matters. this statement really bothers me deep down.. a feeling of melancholy, because from my point of view your wasting away your precious days on earth (approx 300,000) as they don't really matter... worshiping a delusion "god".

you say your happy and you can thank christ for this.. blah blah, well so are heroin addicts taking a needle in the arm (probably a lot more happier than most humans can experience without the help of drugs).

happiness, hate, lust, all human emotions can be explained through evolutionary psychology, were they played an advantage in our survival (they may be misfiring in todays society causing thing such as religion) in the hunter/gather world.

let me guess, your parents were religious and pushed this onto you from a early age? you live in area in america with many other christains in your community? why don't you believe in paganism? ancient greek mythology? aboriginal dream time? islam? YOU believe in jesus because of culture. religion is a virus of the mind, passed down from parent to the gullible offspring (children believe whatever there parents tell me as a evolutionary advantage so they don't have to learn everything themselves, eg. don't go near that cliff, don't eat those berries).

faith? are you really satisfied with a explanation for something (eg. why are we here) that makes no coherent sense and goes against what has been studied and observed?

did you come to these boards for answers or just to convert a few people?

[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]




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