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Miami Police Indiscriminately Mace College Students for No Reason

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posted on Oct, 18 2007 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Also what stands out in this video is the lack of police cars.


i saw a police car.
between 1:45 and 1:47.




posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Street theater?

Film studies assignment?

Whatever it is, it's not what it's purported to be.

Ed Wood made better movies than this.



[edit on 2007/10/19 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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I have not found information on this event, but here is a rather disturbing story of Miami police from 2003.

www.democracynow.org...
video of event at top of page.

They broke up a protest and arrested 150 people including journalist, they then made the journalist strip infront of officers inside the jail.

I don't know if the OP posting is real, but not accepting the possiblity to me seems to be because people only watch Corporate media, and do not know how many times things like this happen.

It seems it might be that it was part of 2003 according to story and this clip on web page here
www.lewrockwell.com...

Anyone who says it did not happen and is fake because it is not in mainstream news, I ask you did you see the 2003 protest in mainstream news? Currently there is alot of non reporting of these events.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by Redge777
Anyone who says it did not happen and is fake because it is not in mainstream news, I ask you did you see the 2003 protest in mainstream news?


There are a lot of reasons to doubt the validity of this video, not the least of which is that it looks about as real as a classroom skit taken to the streets.

The dialog sounds phony.

A guy gets sprayed with mace and all he does is whine about it while keeping the camera perfectly focused on the alleged abuse.

When the "cop" who without provocation sprayed the cameraman in the face with "mace" returns to the cameraman's location, the only thing he has to say is "Go home," or words to that effect.

The "cop" is wearing nothing that would identify him as a police officer.

I could go on.

It defies credibility.

No one doubts that some cops abuse their authority, but to post such an obviously fake video as the real McCoy demeans this forum.

If you want to discuss police brutality, there are videos out there of real abuses by real policemen.

We don't need a high school or college film assignment to use as evidence of a crime being committed, at least not without some kind of disclaimer, such as, "This is a dramatization."

Otherwise, it is pure deceit.

Moreover, we have numerous threads on ATS and this forum which discuss the issue of police abuse.


[edit on 2007/10/20 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
A guy gets sprayed with mace and all he does is whine about it while keeping the camera perfectly focused on the alleged abuse.

Actually the camera spins around when he is maced, it is a second or two after being maced, but mace takes a few seconds to effect someone. Note how he was spitting a bit a minute or two later. His camera even spun when the girl was maced.


When the "cop" who without provocation sprayed the cameraman in the face with "mace" returns to the cameraman's location, the only thing he has to say is "Go home," or words to that effect.

The guy backed up, and the police moved down the street. That would be because that is also when the video ends, the guy left, the police had no reason for any more actions. They also could be private security and not government police, currently many police functions are being handed over to armed private security firms.


The "cop" is wearing nothing that would identify him as a police officer.

The head gear he wore is the same riot head gear in the 2003 clip I added, note how it has a small filter on the side, a face shield and the shape of the helmet. There is also one frame where the police is close up, when he was hitting the guy with a stick (the stick also matches sticks in 2003) The can of peper spray also matches the stuff from 2003. He has an insignia on front brest of jacket, not something usually on casual clothing, although it was out of focus, and I have not identified it.


I could go on.

please do


It defies credibility.

Honestly, the main point I believe it is possible is I know this stuff happens, I would guess you believe this behavior to be rare.


No one doubts that some cops abuse their authority, but to post such an obviously fake video as the real McCoy demeans this forum.

It is possible it is fake, they may have added helicopter sound, they may have added the screaming of people just wanting to get in there house, they may have dressed people with police riot gear. They may have even have had the presence of mind to add three other police on the very edge of the camera field for only the first 3 seconds of the clip. They are walking down the street, and that is where the police look to when breaking contact and the screaming starts.


We don't need a high school or college film assignment to use as evidence of a crime being committed, at least not without some kind of disclaimer, such as, "This is a dramatization."

It is not evidence, but it also can not be dismissed so easily, if there was a disturbance, and police were out trying to keep a place clear that is a possible event.

I have no clue if it is real, but I will not dismiss it yet, there were not alot of hallmarks of a fake, in my opinion.

If it is fake, they had lots of people yelling in the street for awhile just for this video. Notice the echo of the yell, it sounds about right for outdoor, definitely does not sound canned.

Also 2 people walked up got sprayed by cops, but the one with the stripe took off, and the girl fell then cussed out police, this is the type of oddity not usually in directed things, either they both run or both stay, rarely do fakes have mixed behaviors.

I don't know what this is, but I doubt it is fake.



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 01:08 AM
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I've been a part of riot training. I know how phony the interactions are in that scenario

I've been present when cops move in on a disorderly crowd.

I've been roughed up by cops and witnessed others who were roughed up by cops.

I've experienced Mardi Gras.

I'm telling you that this is so phony it reeks.

Ed Wood made better films and the acting was much better.

All the rationalization in the world won't make it more real.

If you don't believe me buy some mace and spray yourself with it and tell me if it's real.

Oh and the "cop" does come back to confront the cameraman.

[edit on 2007/10/20 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 02:20 AM
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ok, now why is it phoney, or why are my points that it is real are wrong?

If you are saying that mace effects people instantanious then you are a bold face liar, because I know riot police have mace traing and would know there is a delay in reaction.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
ok, now why is it phoney, or why are my points that it is real are wrong?



That is obvious if you watch the Sorcha feel video you posted and then watch the one that started this thread. In that thread the poice uniforms are clearly marked with LARGE words saying Police which is not the case with the alleged mace video.

[edit on 10/20/2007 by shots]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by shots
 


very good point, I noticed that also and agree. For it to be real the police would have to have the riot helmet, mace and stick, but not the same jacket, I find this odd also. I could imagine the night shift of the riot control was less formal, just regular patrol police, but that is a guess.

If it was street theater and they got the weaponary correct you would think they would be able to fake up the uniform also. It is odd.

It is an anomaly.

Did you see the other guys in the middle of the street, don't they look like a line moving down the street in the first 4 seconds?

I'm trying to identify this insignia, it is taking some time.



[edit on 20-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
If you are saying that mace effects people instantanious then you are a bold face liar, because I know riot police have mace traing and would know there is a delay in reaction.

Ummm... what??

The hell you talking about?
Delayed reaction? Yeah, it takes about a breath's time to go from "la dee da" to "Oh my ^(*#ing GOD!!".

There appears to be a rather significant gap between what you "know" and reality.



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by BitRaiser
 

The statement you are saying I am wrong about


Actually the camera spins around when he is maced, it is a second or two after being maced, but mace takes a few seconds to effect someone.


I get so frustrated at having to defend things anyone can find if they look.

OC which is the most common pepperspray, now in use by law enforcement, is very quick if hit in the eyes. So direct open eye contact would be immediate. Although if direct contact is not made, lets say a guy looking through a camera, or shutting eyes in time(blink reflex, or turning head away) the stream has to aerosol this can take a few seconds.

Other chem agents do have even longer delays reaching up to 30 seconds.


Delayed effect—chemicals take some time to affect the target, during which an attacker can continue to attack

www.ci.fargo.nd.us...


Many OC products on the market today are released in a tight coherent stream pattern. The sellers claim that this stream gives the user the ultimate range. What they fail to tall you is the stream pattern the spray makes could delay the effects of the OC for up to ten seconds.
A stream product may have limited value for a tear gas (CN or CS) where the chemical will vaporize, but OC does not vaporize and in the past has not been very effective when trapped in the liquid of a stream. In the past the only way this can be accomplished is with a propellant system that breaks down the oleoresin capsicum into micron size as it is being released.

www.selfdefenseproducts.com...


Delayed Effect - chemicals take some time to affect the target, during which an attacker can continue to attack

www.ulm.edu...

The persons reaction is consistent with Pepper spray use, he had a delay before showing effect, a few seconds.

Furthermore, although I said a few minutes he was spitting, it was probably 60 seconds, this is the time to recapture breathing, notice the bad taste, produce sliva, have extra breath and spit to clear mouth.

Watch films of people gassed, they all start spitting after 60 seconds of so, this is also consistent with video and shows it was tear gas or OC.


[edit on 20-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Redge777
 


Dude... give it up.
I'm telling you, as someone who has been hit by multiple forms of pepperspray/mace, you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about.

How long, exactly, do you think it would take the aerosol vapors to travel from your upper-body to your face? That's assuming the cop has remarkably bad aim.

I assure you that even if a cop misses you entirely by a good 2 feet, you will start hacking on your next breath and your eyes will be burning by your next blink.

The first time I was exposed to Police strength spray it was being used on a protester more than 6 feet away from me. I heard the discharge, turned my head to see what happened, and I was DONE. I thought I was gonna die. Couldn't breath, couldn't see, just stumbled away. Fortunately a nice lass with a water bottle came to my rescue.
BTW, an interesting side note, Tums or Rolaids (or any calcium based antacid) will help reduce the after effects of being maced since it will help neutralize the Capsicum in your mouth. For surface exposure (on your face, body, and hands) powdered chalk will do the trick.


So... I don't need to read about this subject. I've been there, done that. there's no teacher like experience.
If you want to be taken seriously, please stop with the absolutely laughable departures from reality.



posted on Oct, 20 2007 @ 06:09 PM
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How long, exactly, do you think it would take the aerosol vapors to travel from your upper-body to your face? That's assuming the cop has remarkably bad aim.

A few seconds as I stated, and sourced. The cop actually sprayed the guy with the camera in the face, he got the camera lens.

I respect your personal experiences, I also have had personal experiences that lend credence to the delay in effect. Plus I tried to site sources.

My point is that the delay of real gassing matches his camera actions. The other poster said it did not because he did not react immediately.

In your case you got diffused lingering particles, not the direct stream, it is the direct stream in liquid form that allowed for his delay.

I guess I was harsh in my tone, but I took offence to your comments, mostly because I also have experience in the area, and site my sources on my posts.

Although my comment about bold face was to harsh and came from a moment of frustration.

If you want to be taken serious please don't misconstrue my comments, they are correct and backed up.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Nov, 24 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by titorite
 


You don't "die by tasering". Do a little research you uneducated fool. You die as a result of the reason you were tasered. In most cases, people are tasered because they don't comply with simple orders my 2 year old would understand. Usually because of drugs, a mental problem, or what's known as "excited delirium". Look it up. Learn something for once in stead of going with the crowd.






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