Originally posted by RogerT


Is that enough, ?

No. Your sites are not reliable scientific or medical sources. They're alternative health sources, which, I'm sorry to inform you, are not the best sources to get information such as this.

And, BTW, your measles information did not have a link provided, and it showed that the kids had an antibody response to measles -- the vaccinated kids didn't GET measles. That means that measles is still around but vaccines are protecting the kids from it.

Thanks for proving my point.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
No. Your sites are not reliable scientific or medical sources. They're alternative health sources, which, I'm sorry to inform you, are not the best sources to get information such as this.

CDC means center for disease control

you are most certainly not a reliable source, but if you are quoting data from one, I will listen

Originally posted by apc
Maybe some people should skip their next tetanus booster (even better if they've never had one), have some stray cats spit and poop all over a few rusty nails, and then jump up and down on them (the nails...).

Besides the obvious wealth of comical pleasure this would bring to the rest of us (myself at least), it should provide sufficient evidence that yup, vaccines work!

Yes, there seem to be quite a few members on ATS who resort to sarcasm when they've not much intelligent information to offer to the debate.

I didn't take a tetanus booster for over 30 years and regularly spike myself on rusty nails, get scratched by cats, and clean up animal poop - does that count?

Originally posted by 27jd
The clinical effectiveness of immunizations, however, is best substantiated by observing the dramatic decline in incidence of disease since their institution.

Hey muscle man, wassup

This is the key line. It's toff, according to data from sources like the CDC in the US. You have to go back a bit further in time than the PR. Please see the example graphs posted.

if you don't believe them cos they are posted on 'alternative health' sites, then call up the CDC and ask for the data

Originally posted by RogerT
if you don't believe them cos they are posted on 'alternative health' sites, then call up the CDC and ask for the data

Well, if you read the site I linked, it goes pretty in depth into the pros as well as the cons of vaccination. It really is balanced if you take the time to read it through. Also, I have nothing against alternative medicines. Instead of steroids (which you insinuated I use), if I'm looking to boost my testosterone levels I take ZMA and tribulus. I believe in a balance between alternative medicine and proven medicine, it's called complimentary medicine, but I'm sure you knew that.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

And, BTW, your measles information did not have a link provided, and it showed that the kids had an antibody response to measles -- the vaccinated kids didn't GET measles. That means that measles is still around but vaccines are protecting the kids from it.

Thanks for proving my point.

errm, what part of this sentence did you not understand:

"Fourteen of 74 seronegative students, all of whom had been vaccinated, contracted measles."

or this one:

"We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune"

the source was something that looked very mainstream and impressive, you'd like it, just google corpus christi measles 1985, it's not far down the page.

Originally posted by 27jd
Well, if you read the site I linked, it goes pretty in depth into the pros as well as the cons of vaccination. It really is balanced if you take the time to read it through. Also, I have nothing against alternative medicines. Instead of steroids (which you insinuated I use), if I'm looking to boost my testosterone levels I take ZMA and tribulus. I believe in a balance between alternative medicine and proven medicine, it's called complimentary medicine, but I'm sure you knew that.

Yeah I knew that. You did say I should crank the sarcasm and arrogance

I used trib myself for a while, but not into the game enough now to warrant the supps.

I do use some awesome organic and wild harvested ginseng, palmetto, yohimbe, ginger mixed with a couple other herbs for a male boost, if you know what I mean

i'll give your site some time later, but no matter what some studies say, i don't want none of that monkey puss in my beautiful baby's blood

[edit on 18-10-2007 by RogerT]

Originally posted by RogerT
I didn't take a tetanus booster for over 30 years and regularly spike myself on rusty nails, get scratched by cats, and clean up animal poop - does that count?

Not really. Tetanus infections occur from deep penetration wounds. You should try it!

Oh, and I'm having fun with this because everyone else is pretty effectively pointing out the flaws in your opinions. Humor is all that's left.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by apc]

Originally posted by RogerT
I used trib myself for a while, but not into the game enough now to warrant the supps.

Well, depending on your age, keeping testosterone levels peaked can be helpful in so many more ways then just athletics. I'm only 30 so right now it's just a boost, but once I'm old enough for test levels to decline I'll start taking DHEA. ZMA is really good too, it really cuts down on soreness, it makes sleep deeper, the dreams can be VERY bizarre though.

i'll give your site some time later, but no matter what some studies say, i don't want none of that monkey puss in my beautiful baby's blood

It's a good site. My son was vaccinated, he's 6 and besides being a bit stubborn and addicted to video games, he's in good health. You can't get them into daycare or public schools here without them being vaccinated. It's not my place to tell any parent what they should do, I hope you made the right decision as far as your child goes. It's a tough decision to weigh your distrust of the medical community against your child's health I'm sure.

Whether or not vaccines cause autism remains to be seen by some. Other side effects from children recieving them before age5 are, earaches ; thyroid problems to name a couple.
On another note, I think we have a problem in this country when you have to be vaccinated to graduate from college.

Originally posted by RogerT


Corpus Christi 1985, 99% vaccinated against measles, nearly 95% caught the disease

Your info doesn't say that. It says 95% had an antibody response. That means that the disease came around and their antibodies became active.

It does not mean that 95% caught the disease. Nice try, though.

And, BTW, my info DOES come from the CDC. Which I will trust because they are the ones with the data. There's no government conspiracy to poison our kids and cause them illness. How would that help the economy of the US and the world?

I'll take the CDC's word on disease before I'll take some fly by night alternative site that doesn't reference its data sources.

I have a niece and nephew who have not been vaccinated and they are fine. Not even minor sicknesses or colds. Perfectly healthy. One is 2 and the other is 1. They are amazingly healthy and have been since birth.

What some people have to realize is that since polio and other diseases have been vaccinated for the past 30 years the strains are no longer present among the masses so there is no need to have your little ones pumped full of a mind-numbing cocktail via syringe.

There are other substances that will give you cancer and lower your kids IQ over time without it being readily apparent. They will end up with ADD, hypertension, high cholesterol, and the like. these include aspertame, high fructose corn syrup, fluoride, and there are more. Look into this stuff.

Whether you like the old fashioned traditions and world or not it doesn't matter. Times are changing rapidly. What william cooper, jfk, alex jones, stephen leeb, aaron russo, george green have been talking about are becoming reality. The ones that decide to remain in there comfort zone can enjoy fighting the change. those who are malleable, open minded thinkers will adapt to the new world order that is already here. People think it will happen in one fall swoop. It can be compared to a virus strain with no vaccine. Ever changing, ever morphing, hidden, and well....ignored or not realized. Read George Green's new paradigm books if you haven't. They are free and will change your life. www.nomorehoaxes.com

the other books are online. just search for em. later

hello all,

I am a farther of 2. My first child was born normal and I followed all the recommendations. As a result at 3, she was diagnosted with autism. My wife and I immediately began intervention and she has steadily gone down the autism spectrum to asbergers(sorry spelling). This being said, we did immense research and the bottom line is that after reviewing all the documentations and theories on both sides, that we delayed all of my sons vaccines and spread them out. Additionally, we made sure that NON of them had thurmerisol. As a result, my son is mostly normal. He is diagnosed ADD, but we refuse to treat it with "Meth" which is basically what the ADD drugs are. While a little rambuctious, and mostly has to be told several times to do something, he can at least deal with society. My daughter fails miserably at it. Bottom line. If I knew then, what I knew now, I can't help but wonder how my daughters life would be like, had she not recieved the vaccines.

That my friends is the moral of the story. Don't scare people, but inform them, and you know what maybe that may change some minds. If it doesn't then they are at the whimes of your body, and its ability to process and filter out heavy metals and other toxins.

My personal opinion: Autism as well as other neurological disorders can be caused by a genetic predispostion to an inability to break down heavy metals. This being said when you give a baby 2000% of the recommended dose of mercury in a couple of shots, for the wieght of the child, things happen. Its almost impossible not too.

2nd opinion: Why you didn't see this in previous decades: has there been any research into how chlorine and floride can make small genetic mutations? Say screwing up the ability to the body to break down heavy metals? My take. All the water you drink, and chemicals in soda when ingested over a long period of time results in mutations. Most people start having kids after there 20. Thats 15+ years of putting this crap in your bodies.

3rd opinion: I don't let my kids drink pop, and I only let them drink charcoal filters water. If I'm right, this combined with my fighting tooth and nail to keep my grandkids mercury free will eliminate this from my decendents. God knows though, and I just prey that there healthy.

I wish you all the best of luck, and God bless you all. I hope that your kids, and there kids are healthy. This being said, PLEASE remember thermersol, and ask you doctor for vaccines with no mecury perservative. I say this only because if you child does develop something, 2nd guessing and guilt can take a toll on your body, and thats something I don't wish on anyone.


God bless,

Camain

camain, for what it's worth I feel I should point out that charcoal/ion exchange water filters (Brita, Pur) do not actually remove significant amounts of fluoride nor chlorine. Reverse osmosis is required if these chemicals are a concern, and I agree that they are.

Originally posted by Saltyseaman

What some people have to realize is that since polio and other diseases have been vaccinated for the past 30 years the strains are no longer present among the masses so there is no need to have your little ones pumped full of a mind-numbing cocktail via syringe.

That is absolutely untrue. Pertussis still infects kids in the US every year. Polio, once nearly eradicated, is making a comeback because it wasn't pursued violently enough in the third world, and now it's spreading back into the civilized world.

It's only because of the vaccines that more children aren't stricken with these horrible diseases, and no longer dying of them. It's because parents are NOT vaccinating their children that these diseases are still prevalent, and just waiting for new, unvaccinated hosts.

This entire "don't vaccinate your kids because it will give them autism" thing is just as ill-informed and misguided as the "condoms cause AIDS in Africa" thing, the "have sex with a virgin and be cured of HIV" thing, and the "HIV does not cause AIDS" thing.

You're very lucky your little loved ones have not yet caught anything. I sincerely hope that the community in which they live have a majority of people who will do the responsible thing and have their kids vaccinated so that your little ones don't have to experience the pain and misery of a crippling and possibly deadly, entirely preventable disease.

You know what, until now, I never really took vaccination seriously.

My mother was against vaccination, that is why in our family, no one had a single vaccination ever. Up to now, my brother, sister & myself are in our early forties, are still healthy and never contacted any of the known dreaded contagious diseases. My brother & sister got chicken pox when they were less than 10 years old. I never got it even though I was directly exposed by being with them. I only got chicken pox (in my late thirties) last year (yeah, quite late I guess). Other than that, even though I travel to a lot of countries, I never really contacted any life threathening contagious disease. Maybe I am just lucky. I don't really know.

Few months ago, here in Vietnam, there were cases of child deaths due to vaccination. I will try to find the old news links about that article. There were (if I can remember well) 3 to 4 babies died after vaccination. 2 died when the nurse who administered the vaccine contamited the children of a certain disease. (I will try to find the old link to the news for the details) And the rest died due to a substance in a 5 in 1 vaccine that was produced in Korea.

Bottomline, there were people who died due to vaccination itself (with documented evidence). There are people who never had a single vaccination who are still living in healthy condition up to now. There were people who died from contacting those contagious diseases that could have been prevented by vaccines. It seems that choices are up to us, but we will never know what's next. What are the chances? What are the risks that are we willing to take? It seems that sometimes, the prevention itself (taking the vaccine) also turned out to be harmful.

And, I am also aware that being vaccinated can give us protection.

My son had all the basic vaccinations, and currently, he is in perfect health condition. My sister, who is against vaccination never let any of her child to be vaccinated. The kids are all fine too up to now.

Although I allowed my son to be vaccinated, I mean I really can not make up my mind on this stuff.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 18-10-2007 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 19-10-2007 by searching_for_truth]

It's not just scary... it's irresponsible and dangerous.

For every child that has suffered a possible negative side-effect of vaccination, there are ten thousand others who only had to cope with a sore arm.

Everyone knows or has heard of someone who might have experienced one of these side-effects. But everyone also knows someone who has been killed in a car accident. We don't stay off the streets because there's a chance it might happen to us. That's just life. We either deal with it, or crawl into a hole and whine about how bad the world is on the Internet.