The Secret......any experiences? good bad??

Originally posted by dominicus
our thoughts/emotions have direct influence over life, events, etc

Of course they do, but not through quantum mechanics!

Everything is atoms from what we know, besides light (still in the air for me at least) Macros is just looking at structures of atoms, you still got atoms everywhere at the end of the day.

But when you put lots of atoms together they stop exhibiting quantum behaviour. That only happens on a subatomic level. Even if it did happen macroscopically, the thoughts/feelings/whatever of the observer have no effect at all - the observer doesn't even have to be human or alive! A computer observing the particles has exactly the same effect as a human. There is absolutely no basis in physics for saying that visualization/intention has any effect on the real world (except through psychology.)

No, your actions in the real world have no effect whatsoever on what goes on at the quantum level.

HAHAHA.... WOW look who the deluded one real is here. HAHAHA. Come on now, let's be alittle more realistic here when posting such a bold delusion and least back up what your saying with some science, the way I did in the original post!!!!!!!

Your own scientific world is proving that all our actions/conciousness/emotions have effects on the real world. See the link in the post above this one and go read up on the "Double Slit Experiment."

Had a good laugh on that one Hahaha......
____________
On another note,
Before the secret ever came out or before I knew about it, aproximately about 12 years or so ago when the Big Game wasn't in place yet, and you had the regular lotto (pick 6)...we had a family friend who owned his own construction company.

This Guy would come over and hang out for the holidays or for bar-b-que's and so forth. Well one year he started telling everyone that he's gonna win the lotto this year (1995). He was telling this to everyone regardless of their responses (which I'm sure you can imagine how people could react to a statement like that)

ANyway, he played everytime the lotto was up (mons, weds, & fri's i believe)

Wouldn't you know it, he ends up hitting a 16 million jackpot.

If that doesnt say something then I dont know what does. This happened when I was a kid and I remember thinking the dude had super powers or something cause everyone used to make fun of him claiming that he was gonna win. People thought he was starting to lose it mentally, and yet he made it happen and laughed in everyone's face afterwards. (figuretively speaking).

He still owns a construction co. and still works everyday, still has employees. Inspiration

Originally posted by TheBandit795
The reason why we shouldn’t bother objections of materialism is because like I said. We are part of God, and God wants to experience everything through us. God wants to experience the highest good and the lowest evil.

It’s so God can experience everything. That’s the reason why God has no morals.

Once again.. All of this is my opinion. Take it or leave it as you like...

Well if I believed that then seeing someone in terrible suffering would just be part of gods plan and I would not need to do anything because my luxury is also his plan, If god doesn't have morals why should we.

I see this differently, I think this is a way to get people not to care about others.

It is part of God's plan, see people suffering. That's unfortunate when you look at it from our level. But from another level it is necessary, because then another part of God would never be able to experience real joy if there wasn't one part of him suffering.

And you know what's funny? It makes sense to help others because by doing so we unconsciously tell The Universe that we have something to give. To which it will react by giving us more of what we are giving to others. Whether it be (all kinds of) support, compassion, love or whatnot. You receive what you give or send out.

So if you see someone suffering, it pays to help them because you will be rewarded for it. Btw.. I'm not saying this from an egocentric point of view. If you only help others because you will be helped in return, you're mistaken. The Universe will know of your selfish intent behind the act, and act accordingly. The intent you're sending out is just a charade that is masking the underlying feelings that you are really lacking something, and in order to get that thing you want to "help" others.

I hope I'm clear enough on this...

Originally posted by jim_w
Of course they do, but not through quantum mechanics!

But when you put lots of atoms together they stop exhibiting quantum behaviour. That only happens on a subatomic level. Even if it did happen macroscopically, the thoughts/feelings/whatever of the observer have no effect at all - the observer doesn't even have to be human or alive! A computer observing the particles has exactly the same effect as a human. There is absolutely no basis in physics for saying that visualization/intention has any effect on the real world (except through psychology.)

There absolutely a basis in physics for saying the observer has a direct effect on the outcome of the experiment. Schrodinger's cat anybody?

en.wikipedia.org...'s_cat

Observership is absolutely mixed up with quantum physics and its giving a lot of top scientists a difficult time.

Did you read the story I posted on the first page? If you dont believe the law of attraction exists, how can you explain my experience? The statistical odds of something like that occurring are mind blowing.

For all of you that don't believe this is real I must ask if you have even tried it? I assure you that it is real and awakening to this possibility will dramatically enrich your lives

I agree. Physics, psychology, science, mysticism, God, it's all tied in together, and al these new findings on the quantum level are really giving the status quo a hard time.

Allot more proof is yet, or soon to be discovered, but no worries here because the stigma of the current scientific status quo will soon be replaced by the next generation of professionals that will realize the interconnectedness of it all.

Check out my thread "How to shapeshift yourself" in which I try to go beyond mere "visualisation".

I think "the secret" is good for beginners, but true "visualisation" is not only a 2-dimensional event in front of the minds-eye but a "whole body event" of projecting energy.

Originally posted by dominicus
I agree. Physics, psychology, science, mysticism, God, it's all tied in together, and al these new findings on the quantum level are really giving the status quo a hard time.

Quantum mechanics *is* the status quo... We understand quantum effects very well - the various quantum theories explain a huge range of phenomena very accurately.

People here seem to be having a hard time with the observer effect. It really doesn't have anything to do with consciousness at all - the act of measurement is what collapses the wave function, not a human seeing the measurement. Schrodinger's cat is supposed to show exactly the opposite of what a poster above says - the cat *isn't* half alive and half dead, because it's a macroscopic thing.The cat is definately either dead or alive, but we don't know which. This means we can look at it as a superpositon, but it's not. Take a real experiment - the famous double slit. The observation isn't a human looking at the measurement, it's the actual measurement. The intereference pattern doesn't reapper when the human doing the experiment covers the readout.

Consciousness has no role in quantum mechanics.

reply to post by jim_w

Consciousness has no role in quantum mechanics.

Well scientists (and debunkers) can't really agree with each other on that subject. There are proponents and opponents of the theory.

en.wikipedia.org...

(as seen in these two parts of the above linked article: Articles and links in support of Quantum Consciousness and Articles and links against quantum consciousness)

So you cannot say with certainty that consciousness has no role in quantum mechanics, because the debate is not final yet.

There's a book on my list (meaning I haven't gotten it yet) called Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness.

Now this particular book intrigues me because it wasn't written by some New Agers (not that there's anything WRONG with that) but by a couple of physics profs from UC Santa Cruz (Richard Feynman's hangout).

They've actually been around long enough to have actually had face-time conversations with Einstein.

There are no hard and fast answers to be found in this book, but I find it fascinating that real mainstream physicists are taking a deep and serious look at this topic. If nothing else, go to the Amazon link and read the introduction called "Presenting the Enigma" by clicking on the book cover.

If anyone else out there has read the book, I'd be interested in your observations (no irony intended).

skyfloating,
Could you provide a link to that thread please? Thanks

Originally posted by Redge777If it is true that reality exist for the individual, even if it is geared to learn, and the individual controls reality through thought, explain this paradox.

Two people with different ideas. Which one prevails?

Those in your life effected by your thoughts are in syncronicity with you... otherwise they wouldn't be in your life/effected by it. Whether or not they want the same thing is irrelevant. What matters is what they expect. Some people constantly expect disappointment, and they continue to receive it.

Multiverse theory is a big part of the answer too.

[edit on 10/22/2007 by Kruel]

Dear OP,

as requested, some expansion on the secret:



How to shapeshift yourself

I'm not really sure if my experience had to do with watching the movie, but I did have something that struck me as interesting. In the movie they talked about dealing with bills, and instead of dreading the bills, just imagine getting checks in the mail. Before I saw the movie, I was dreading my gas bill. I was slapped with a deposit for $270 right after utility companies changed hands. For one year I only paid $5-$10 more than I was being charged for gas usage. Since that seemed to work for a couple months, I figured they were fine with it. Well, one day my gas got shut off. About a week later I actually got a $107 check in the mail from them for interest on what I had paid toward my deposit! I went to get it turned back on, and they only needed $85 for a deposit. When I got the check, my thoughts immediately went to the movie. Nothing like that has happened since. Yet!

Originally posted by TheBandit795
So you cannot say with certainty that consciousness has no role in quantum mechanics, because the debate is not final yet.

True, but the debate isn't scientific - consciousness has no role in the science, but some philosophical interpretations of the science see a role for consciousness. By definition there's no way we can ever test the consciousness-causes-collapse hypothesis, so like many-worlds it's just a philosophical speculation, not science.

Consciousness has everything to do with Science !!! We used our consciousness to discover science and to progress it. We also use it to observe, experiment, and make new findings.

Just because we lack the instrumentation to measure it, contain it, and manipulate it at high levels doesnt mean it has nothing to do with science.

It's the very consciousness itself that you use to understand science, so to say they dont go hand in hand is kind of lacking as a statement.

reply to post by dominicus


I believe what jim_w (above) was referring to is that consciousness has no role in the science of quantum physics. And a whole lot of mainstream physicists would agree with him. In fact, most would. It's the elephant in the room that the mainstream isn't willing to address. Einstein's "spooky action" and "playing dice". And it may just be unknowable. Hard to accept but there it is.

The whole quantum mechanics subject is so complex, nobody understands it completely. So to say there are some out-of-the box thinkers on this topic is a bit misleading, since nobody even understands what's inside the box.

Btw...

I think it's good if we posted links to related material. Free or not.

Yeahright sent me a link with a huge amount of free online books.


psitek.net...

If you actually want to understand modern physics then you can't get much better than the Feynman lectures. He has an amazing way of making it all sound simple - he gives real-world examples for everything he talks about and always seems to know the best way to present complex stuff. Get the audio versions if you can.

When we look at groups of people with all the same things going for them (i.e. IQ, expereince, good up bringing, good self-esteem etc) - we can see that there are those that excell, and those who do well enough, but never seem to reach that 'brass ring'. What we find in studying and trying to find out the difference between the succesfull ones and those that just do well enough, is that the succesfull ones are able to visualise AND MAINTAIN the visual image for more than a few seconds.

This falls right in line also with this TRUE fact: The body does not know the difference between something vividly imagined and reality.

Add to that, this TRUE fact: ALL things we do physicaly, first come through the mind (weather it be consciously or subconsiously).

So adding all these things together, it's not that the secret to riches and fame are to just believe it will be and wait for it to happen... but that those that creat for themselves a picture (have a goal and plan) are more apt to actualy realize those dreams.

Make sense?