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The universe could be rotating!

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posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 07:48 AM
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A quantum gyroscope could tell us if the entire Universe is in a spin, according to new research by scientists.

Physicists used to think it made no sense to say the Universe was or was not rotating. "Rotating relative to what?" asked the Austrian physicist Ernst Mach in 1893. Then Einstein came along.

According to his general theory of relativity, if most of the matter in the Universe happens to be spinning, all of space-time will be pulled round with it. If this is the case, the Universe must have been spinning ever since the earliest moments after the big bang.

Any overall rotation should appear as strange effects on the paths of free particles, but physicists have never previously come close to working out how to measure this. Now a team led by Wolfgang Schleich at the University of Ulm in Germany have suggested a way to adapt the ring-laser gyros currently used to track rotation in aircraft and satellites.


Interference pattern


These devices fire laser beams in opposite directions around a fibre-optic ring. If a plane is turning, the laser beam travelling with the rotation has to travel further to catch up with its starting point, so it arrives later than the beam travelling against the rotation. When the beams meet, they create an interference pattern from which it is possible to work out the difference in the arrival times of the two beams, and hence the rate of rotation.

Shleich points out that the same principle also works with cold atom beams, and because atoms move more slowly than light, the shift is more obvious. This should allow far slower rates of rotation to be measured.

The European Space Agency is already planning to launch a cold atom gyro called HYPER into space, with the aim of measuring whether any rotation is associated with the Earth's gravitational field. This will provide the first test of the prediction, which flows from Einstein's general theory, that nearby space should be dragged round by the Earth's spin

In July's New Journal of Physics (vol 4, p 37), Schleich shows that the accuracy of HYPER could be improved by a factor of 10 billion, which should be enough to measure the rotation of the Universe.

The trick is to get both the cold atom beams into the same quantum state. The beams should then be absolutely identical, so any shift observed when they interfere would have to be due to rotation, rather than random noise (see graphic). "There's a real beauty in the way quantum mechanics makes these gyros more accurate," Schleich says.

Arnaud Landragin, who works for HYPER at the Paris Observatory, says it should be possible to replace the beams with a quantum fluid called a Bose-Einstein condensate, which will have the effect Schleich wants. "It's along the same lines, it's just more difficult," he says.

The first step will be to get the quantum gyro working on the ground, says Landragin, although the adaptations necessary may not be ready in time for HYPER's launch in 2010.




posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 08:20 AM
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so wat u's think? to spin or not to spin? spin relative to what? taking into consideration other theores of the universe.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 08:22 AM
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everything else in the universe seems to spin. Planets and Stars rotate, so it doesn't seem too far fetch to think that the universe also rotates..that's just my logical thinking...so it not too much to go by.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 10:49 AM
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It kind of makes me wonder - if the universe is rotating, is it possible that it is also revolving around something?



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 10:54 AM
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I just can't get my brain around that. It's hard to buy.

Kind of like "the universe doubles in size every night." Who could tell?

I buy it assuming multiverses, which I do believe in. Assuming the entire universe is but an electron in an atom on the butt of a flea on a dog's rump in another universe. (Is referencing two "butts" in one sentence a double negative?)



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Given the Big Bang occured, if the single point of matter just prior to the Bang were rotating in the slightest, that rotational energy would be transferred to the outgoing matter of the explosion. This would then have all that material revolving around that point, thereby make thing the universe rotate.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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First of all from what I remember from Physics class dont you need to determine the center of the Universe to determine centripital force so then you can determine if its spining. Everytime I try to think how big is space it blows my mind it just doesnt end WOW.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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centrifugal = centrifuge = roundish-thing

and not in this case, they think that gravity sort of pulls space time in a rotation, and since gravity is everywhere, all spacetime is being pulled, so it is all rotating.

I read a lot on this theory a while back..



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 04:51 PM
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but what if gravity only exists because the universe is rotating?? kind of like those spining things they use in astronaut training? if u get my point. therefore if the universe were to become static, there would be no gravity stopping it from expanding AND collapsing?? just a thought...



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 05:22 PM
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Everything is circular in the universe... everything either rotates, or orbits, or both... from the smallest atoms to the galaxies and probably beyond everything is in a cycle



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 05:32 PM
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if the universe were expanding and then it stoped expanding, there would be one point that stops first, but the other part of the "edge" of the unviverse wouldnt know it has stoped expanding yet, so parts of the universe would still be expanding making a obscure shape. then collapsing on to the smaller part of the universe (thestretched part)travelling through the void. kind of like a jelly fish does lol



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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Every point within the universe is at its exact center. All 4(pi) steradians at any point exactly point toward the Big Bang. No overall rotation is possible because no unique rotation axis can be defined. If your laser gyroscope measures universal rotation and the guy over in Andromeda has his laser gyroscope measure universal rotation, then there is a blatant contradiction that doesn't require spacetime esoterica. One plus one never equals three, not even for very large values of one. You are confusing univeral whatever with local frame dragging,

Google
"frame dragging" 4050 hits

It is a prediction of the subset of gravitoelectric and gravitomagnetic effects in General Relativity. General relativistic frame dragging is meaningless applied to the univserse as a whole (or our light cone as a piece of it).

Finally, a collection of massed particles orbiting a primary will be subject to tidal forces. The extraordinary sensitivity to be gained with a Bose-Einstein condensate will be an equally wonderful amplifier for irrelevant and inescapable noise. The satellite will require periodic orbital correction because it is being massaged by residual air resistance, the Earth's magnetic field, solar wind... Light is massless, a Bose-Einstein condensate is massed. Each orbital correction will wreak potential havoc with the condensate.

what the hell is the guy talking about in more easier terms?



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 11:40 PM
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TheRenegade

It kind of makes me wonder - if the universe is rotating, is it possible that it is also revolving around something?

Its Center of Mass assuming a finite Universe.


quiksilver

but what if gravity only exists because the universe is rotating?? kind of like those spining things they use in astronaut training? if u get my point. therefore if the universe were to become static, there would be no gravity stopping it from expanding AND collapsing?? just a thought...

Gravity it a force based on mass, not space-time. They are not as related as i think you mean.



quiksilver

what the hell is the guy talking about in more easier terms?

Hmm, easier terms are tough since that like asking some one to explain how a car engine or microproccessor works to some one from the 1800s. But here goes.

Every point within the universe is at its exact center. All 4(pi) steradians at any point exactly point toward the Big Bang. No overall rotation is possible because no unique rotation axis can be defined.
Every point in space was once packed into the big bang. So every point in space WAS at the center. And because the universe has no exterior there is no refference as to the point from which it is expanding. No matter where you are in space you can still move through it, this is because there is no definabe center. Imagine the universe is the SURFACE of a balloon. as the balloon inflates you can travel all around that surface, however the SURFACE has no center. Not the best analogy ever but best I can come up with for the moment.
You are confusing univeral whatever with local frame dragging,
Frame Dragging is when gravity or electromagnetic forces pull and twist space-time. As the earth turns it curves space around it in a twisted patern. The same is true for the other force, electromagnetic-nuclear. So space twist and rotates (localy).
Finally, a collection of massed particles orbiting a primary will be subject to tidal forces. The extraordinary sensitivity to be gained with a Bose-Einstein condensate will be an equally wonderful amplifier for irrelevant and inescapable noise. The satellite will require periodic orbital correction because it is being massaged by residual air resistance, the Earth's magnetic field, solar wind... Light is massless, a Bose-Einstein condensate is massed. Each orbital correction will wreak potential havoc with the condensate.


This is an explination of why the experiment is flawwed.

The whole thing short and sweet means frame dragging is the only effect that will show up from the experiment, which is actualy what is being looked into. There is no way to test for a rotation of the entire universe, because there is no other frame of refference.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 11:50 PM
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lol u should ass great teacher to ur signature. its kinda hard for me right now to understand some of these things. i am only 13-14 yrs old but interested in this kinda stuff so yea. thanx
also what are those pi steradians?? lol



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
Everything is circular in the universe... everything either rotates, or orbits, or both... from the smallest atoms to the galaxies and probably beyond everything is in a cycle


What about the shape of the actual universe? (this is assuming that it is finite - which we are since something infinite can't be rotating can it?). Some scientists beleive that the universe is a dodecahedron (don't ask me why -- it sounds really random). Also, does the universe itself have gravity. I mean, what's stopping me if I developed hyperdrive or something from leaving the universe through its side?



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
everything else in the universe seems to spin. Planets and Stars rotate, so it doesn't seem too far fetch to think that the universe also rotates..that's just my logical thinking...so it not too much to go by.

Yep! I'm quite sure there isn't a thing in the universe that isn't spinning, orbiting, etc. Everything is, on some level...big or small.



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 12:22 AM
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theres a theory that if u were to travel in a straight line from lets say earth, at 1,000,000 times the speed of light(lets just say its possible and that the effects of time slowing down arent in account) you would end up in the same place that your left off eventually? wierd. possibly the universe is a 2 dimensional plane that was a twist in it. u no like that band thing u can make out of paper(forgot anme of it) because if it was 2d that would account for the "expanding into what?" thingy.the 2d universe. the universe is missing alot of mass because i mean it would take alot of energy to expand the universe that fast and seeing as its go no forces acting on it, it shouldnt stop. also what if you entangled a pair of photons and sent one into a black hole? the one in the black hole couldnt send its signal out (judging that nothing can escape black holes gravity) so the other one would send a signal out restoring the photon back? maybe investigating inside black holes. * i am so random *



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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Ok but saying everything in the universe is making up gravity starting with the outer rim of the galaxy and going inwards more mass gasses planets stars etc. I can see why now they think this. You have to think of the universe as a big puddle ( this is my analogie) ok you throw a stone and you get rippels. The greatest number of rippels is at the center and as you go out there are less rippels. Sort of like the universe. At the outer reaches if you go with the big bang there are only gases and dust. the farther in you go there is more junk planets etc. all that combined is pulling and pushing on eachother. then deeper where matter is more compact the greater gravity pull. so due to the orbits of planets etc. and gravity you can achive a sort of spin because of gravities pushing and pulling on each other.



posted on Jan, 29 2004 @ 01:47 AM
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ok heres a theory, the universe boundaries are just a shell, but everything inside is still spinning or/and rotating on a universal level aswell (like everything together) which then goes down to smaller scales, right down to electrons and what not. i think that thats a relatively good guess. so that the universe itself is not spinning/rotating but all the stuff inside is rotating/spinning on the largest scale.



posted on Jan, 29 2004 @ 01:58 AM
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Wow just reading this and the members responses is really making my brain hurt from confusion.

Am I actually alive?

What the hell am I doing here?

Is everything around me fake?

Is the Earth just a crumb in the scheme of it all?

If the Earth is just a crumb, what the hell our we?

I'm sorry for releasing these stupid questions.....but I think everybody hits this total state of confusion once in while. Then reality kicks him, and you start worrying about your life again.




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