YOU are responsible for your posts.

What's up with ATS lately? Such a bunch of grumps and knit-pickers around here.

Don't like the rules? No one is forcing you to log on to ATS. Don't like a member? Click ignore. Don't like a topic? Avoid the thread. Disagree? Yeah well, right back 'atcha.

Get over it and grow up. Between the crybabies and the tabloid posters its getting ridiculous around here. You people are sucking the life right out of ATS.

I am responsible for this post.

[edit on 16/10/2007 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


It's not enough to ignore the worst of posters, i.e. the habitual offenders of the T&Cs. Such individuals drag the board down and hurt our reputation, I don't think they should have the right to post at all.

reply to post by uberarcanist


I'm with you on this one about John Lear, man.

I don't care to get in an argument with anyone about the guy, but I think it's a little ridiculous that he has his own forum, posts some of the things he does, and provides very little if any proof of his claims.

If he isn't passing what he is saying off as facts, and they are his "opinions" as one member stated earlier, then why is he a "conspiracy master"? Aren't conspiracy masters and pros 'experts' in a certain field, or have demonstrated that they are well read on a topic?

If that's the case, and he's well read, or he's an expert, then why the lack of proof?

All of us post our opinions; not all of us have our own forums.

That's all I'm sayin'

Again, don't care to get in an argument about this. Just voicing my opinion.

Originally posted by Badge01
Excuse me? John Lear may post far-out theories, but they are not hoaxes.

He clearly states that these are his opinions.

Are you unable to distinguish between a hoax and a fringe theory?

Well, when i read his posts.. He clearly states that what he say is how it is. Take 5 minutes and listen to the Coast to Coast interview. No theory there ? .. Clear statements..

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Aren't conspiracy masters and pros 'experts' in a certain field, or have demonstrated that they are well read on a topic?

Yes, they are. We do have an aviation forum here, and...

Source

John Lear is a retired airline captain with over 19,000 hours of flight time. He is the son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear. He has flown over 100 different types of planes in 60 different countries. John holds 17 aviation world records. His accomplishments are too numerous to mention here such as: He was the youngest American to climb the Matterhorn in 1959. LEAR FLEW SECRET MISSIONS FOR THE CIA in Central and Southest Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1966 and 1983.

...If that doesn't constitute as an "expert" in a field... What does?*

He's also had personal meetings, and some friendships, with numerous notable people in the field of UFOlogy; including Lazar, Hoagland, and others.

Again, don't care to get in an argument about this. Just voicing my opinion.

Not arguing here, just trying to help you see some of the credentials that you may not have been aware of.

Now, just because he's an expert in the field of aviation, does that mean he shouldn't have the opportunity to voice his opinions on other topics?*
________________________________________________________________________



Alright, enough about Mr. Lear (there are plenty of threads for that).

Lets get back to the topic at hand; "YOU are responsible for your posts. No exception"

I know that my question (at the bottom of page one) was directed towards intrepid, but if any Amigos, Supermods, or Mods would care to chime in; it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!





*Note: these are rhetorical questions that don't need a posted response.

[edit on 10/17/07 by redmage]

Originally posted by redmage
...If that doesn't constitute as an "expert" in a field... What does?*

I know who he is and what he's done.

I said, conspiracy masters are either well read on a topic, or are experts. Experts provide facts, with a dose of opinion. Facts require proof.

Mr. Lear simply posts his opinion and states it in a way that he is implying it is fact, yet he provides no proof to back it up.

That's my problem with him. I have no problem whatsoever with him posting his opinion. I'm not doubting that he knows what he's talking about.

But for those of us who don't have the experience he does, we need proof. Some people are skeptical no matter what, and those people don't just listen to what someone says and trust them that they're telling the truth. That's not how it works.

So all I'm saying is, if he's posting his opinion, that's fine, I just don't understand why he has his own forum. If he's posting facts, then he deserves his own forum, but he needs to post proof.

I think that's a fair request.

I think the problem here stems from the rapidly growing community here at ATS. There are so many new members who obviously aren't taking the time to read the T&C. They just log on and assume this is like every other run of the mill discussion board on the internet.

What people are failing to realize is that ATS is not your average board.

This is a community where not only the Mods but the members not only demand, but deserve respect; not just as fellow ATS'ers, but as fellow human beings.

Just follow the T&C and remain civil until you have been here a little longer. Then you will see that there is no grand conspiracy within the Mod's to restrict certain discussions. You will see there is no conspiracy to promote John Lear or anyone else. The only thing we the members, and the Mod's ask is that you behave in a civil manner.

reply to post by intrepid

Wow! I couldn't have made my point better than this does. This is an absolutely perfect example of what I mean. Thanks! Just look at this post:

Strident, exclamatory, bullying, in-your-face. You WILL comply OR ELSE. No exceptions!!! The entire tone is nasty. It's like someone is standing in front of you slapping your face one hand after the other and yelling at you at the same time, like a Marine Corps boot camp drill sergeant yelling at a hapless recuit standing at attention, the veins on his face standing out as he glares and yells repeatedly, the recruit expected to say "Sir, yes, sir!" repeatedly, no matter what the subject, no matter what the alleged transgression.

There is an alternative. Not Exactly like, but Something like:

"Well, folks, the one line posts we don't like to see are those with a bunch of smileys and nothing else. If you make a solid contribution with a sentence, you won't get dinged for that. And when you do complain make sure you have a case. You might want to actually read the T&C and make sure beforehand. But overall what we would prefer is that you take care of your own posts and leave the rest to us. Concentrate on making a good and worthy contribution. We'll see true abuse and take care of it. But we won't make a spectacle of it and sometimes things are being done and you won't actually see it. So once again, concentrate on making good posts. Thanks."

Both posts say pretty much the same thing. One says it with calmness, respect, and (dare I say it) moderation. The other says it with emotion, disrespect, anger, and what I interpret as an inflated sense of self-worth. Which post would you rather be on the receiving end of?

The more important question is why ATS condones this kind of behavior. Small start-ups often go through a period of wild growth where the original partners scramble to keep up. When venture capital gets involved the company is kind of jerked to attention. Often, professional management steps in. If the company wants to grow, it is forced to grow up and become more professional in how it handles its business, all the way from accounting to PR.

One of the things that a company needs to do in this process is ensure that its 'face to the world' is seen as professional and mature, not wild and unruly. Just like a small town out West that is growing into a bigger city. At some point it has to replace the tough old sheriff who kept law and order by intimidation and a big gun with a more professional police force, one that is respectful and consistent, but still gets the job done.

Can ATS accomplish this? I guess we'll see.

Originally posted by schuyler
There is an alternative. Not Exactly like, but Something like:

"Well, folks, the one line posts we don't like to see are those with a bunch of smileys and nothing else. If you make a solid contribution with a sentence, you won't get dinged for that. And when you do complain make sure you have a case. You might want to actually read the T&C and make sure beforehand. But overall what we would prefer is that you take care of your own posts and leave the rest to us. Concentrate on making a good and worthy contribution. We'll see true abuse and take care of it. But we won't make a spectacle of it and sometimes things are being done and you won't actually see it. So once again, concentrate on making good posts. Thanks."

I like it, says pretty much the same thing.

Both posts say pretty much the same thing. One says it with calmness, respect, and (dare I say it) moderation. The other says it with emotion, disrespect, anger, and what I interpret as an inflated sense of self-worth. Which post would you rather be on the receiving end of?

You'll have to forgive my tone. My youngest went in for surgery this morning and last night was fairly tense. You see, staff ARE people too and we have lives that affect us. I must accept responsibility for my post, you are right, it could have been delivered better.

reply to post by uberarcanist


I do not to wish to create an off topic debate in this thread, but merely make brief mention regarding a point- uberarcanist, I agree. I've gone round-and-round w/ S.O. about the preferential treatment that Lear gets. Feel free to u2u me if need be.

Originally posted by intrepid
My youngest went in for surgery this morning and last night was fairly tense.

Good lord. Few things are more difficult for a parent. Hope things turn out well. Sincerely.



[edit on 17-10-2007 by Reality Hurts]

Great thread intrepid.

I have always read threads that are concerned with or are in regard to management of the site etc. What makes me laugh is how some members will continue to say "yes but what about X..." etc etc and this is just what this thread is dealing with.

If each member just reads and takes from these threads what it is saying and stops the "what about X..." questions we will all learn and if we concern ourselves with OURSELVES and OUR actions we won't have to ask "what about X..."



I have had a warning or 2 in the past and I never say "yes but X..." - I did wrong and I need to suffer the consequences of my actions i.e. losing points etc.

It is not a major loss having my points reduced BUT what I, in reality, gain from the warning is realizing that, HEY, I have been an @hole and I need to review my actions and or words. It also makes me realize that there are people that I respect and it has made them notice i was an @hole and THAT is the biggest loss. The possibility that i may lose the respect i may have gained from these people, i call friends, and the loss friendship is more important than a few points.

Not only that BUT it makes me notice that i have done something wrong AND i have learned to check my words and thoughts and THIS i use in "real" life.

In fact: I have learned to be patient to the point that I deal with stresses and i go home to my daughter less stressed and more patient and my wife has even commented on my gain in patience.

Don't view taking responsibility for YOURSELF as punishment but as a necessity and your consideration to this could actually affect another positively!!

I must admit I do sometimes get a bit annoyed when I get one line posts warnings.
Sometimes what is in your mind is best decribed by keeping it short.
I mean look at all those famous quotes you hear, they are almost all one liners.

But it's the rules so I try my best to go by it .

[edit on 17-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Rules. Rules, Rules when are people going to realise rules are there to be broken, if we all obeyed the rules there would be no need for them but by that time we will have become mind controlled slaves, yes master we must comply and obey

I may have agree'ed with the Terms of Service on this website, but in no way have i agree'ed too the Rules, Etiquette & General Guidelines section,,, nor the Avatar & Signature Guidelines section...

These sections are breaking of reality and need to be stomped on...

NO 13YR OLD IS A MEMBER OF ATS..
SHOW ME A 13Yr Old, AND ILL SHOW YOU A NARC...

Words that have been considered vulger by the marxist ATS media, MUST BE SAID.. For lack of something better to do...

I AM Yh-Wh-!!Q!

Woooooot!

Originally posted by SKULL AND BONES
I may have agree'ed with the Terms of Service on this website, but in no way have i agree'ed too the Rules, Etiquette & General Guidelines section,,, nor the Avatar & Signature Guidelines section...

These sections are breaking of reality and need to be stomped on...

That is not an attitude conducive to collaborative discussion. However you will find that the T&C and the Etiquette rules are pretty much the same.

NO 13YR OLD IS A MEMBER OF ATS..
SHOW ME A 13Yr Old, AND ILL SHOW YOU A NARC...

Sorry, you're wrong.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He was barely 14 when he registered. I can vouch for this, he's my son.

Words that have been considered vulger by the marxist ATS media, MUST BE SAID.. For lack of something better to do...

I AM Yh-Wh-!!Q!

Woooooot!

No, they don't and if you really feel that way, maybe ATS isn't for you.

reply to post by intrepid

Yes, I see this and it isn't conducive to discussion. It's a throwback to the meaningless American(sorry guys but it's a fact) mindset. "With me or against me." That REALLY limits discussion. I REALLY wish we could get past this and discuss topics again. I miss that. Inside the T&C that is.

Are you kidding me?You just put over 300 MILLION people in one category,how ignorant........I did like your OP though and still applauder it,but this statement was TOTALLY unnessicary.I have alwyas had some "unknown bias"towards you as some actions you have taken"rubbed"me the wrong way(actions against me and others-although I have never had any warning,but other actions you have taken and the way you word things towards members)I was going to forget it,but once again you come with some ignorant and totally bias statement.

You don't even know me or the majority of Americans,so what-what you hear on the news and from your fellow Canadian and Euro buddies makes you make that statement?There is alot of things that could be said derogatory against your culture also my friend-but I don't say them.

To be honest with you I never read the T & C,it is just common sense on how to post in an intelligent manner.I bet you wish you could warn me now for my comment to you uh?

I'm sorry but your statement about Americans was totally immature and quite frankly "European"-which isn't surprising we all know Canada and Europe are like "this"(both hands with fingers crossed).

Kick the Americans when their down right?I'm not that mad,it's to be expected since we are the most powerful country in the world.You all enjoy your brief time of fun while America is going through some troubles-it won't last long,I promise you that.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Are you kidding me?You just put over 300 MILLION people in one category,how ignorant........

No he put those with the "with us or against us" mentality into that category. Hows that working out for us BTW? It seems that only the most ardent supported of the present regime would take offence to that

You don't even know me or the majority of Americans,so what-what you hear on the news and from your fellow Canadian and Euro buddies makes you make that statement?

The actions of our country speak pretty loud Im afraid as to those still vocal about supporting this failed administration. Again actions eh?

To be honest with you I never read the T & C,it is just common sense on how to post in an intelligent manner.I bet you wish you could warn me now for my comment to you uh?

We do not issue warning for disagreeing with someone. However, if they are rude about then thats another story. As far as not reading the Terms and Conditions of the site, methinks it might behove you to do so.

Kick the Americans when their down right?I'm not that mad,it's to be expected since we are the most powerful country in the world.You all enjoy your brief time of fun while America is going through some troubles-it won't last long,I promise you that.

Yes nothing an regime change wont cure. As far as kicking us when we are down, thats a bit dramatic no? As far as recovering from this disaterous 8 years, im not so sure th fix will be as rapid and painless as you seem to think


[edit on 4/29/08 by FredT]

[edit on 4/29/08 by FredT]

reply to post by FredT


Im glad a fellow MOD came to Intrepids rescue-I want him to answer me,not you thank you.Your saying it's okay to group the ENTIRITY of America in the "with us or against us"category?I can't believe a member of ATS,let alone a MOD would say that.Im glad you also are trying to start another (off topic,I might add)debate with me about the recovery of the American economy.You "slight"threats of warning me for being sarcastic did not go unnoticed either........I bet if I agreed wtih Intrepid you woldn't have said anything,let alone "threatened"me would ya?

No he put those with the "with us or against us" mentality into that category. Hows that working out for us BTW? It seems that only the most ardent supported of the present regime would take offence to that

Yea..........and by that he put the ENTIERTY of the American population into that"with us or against us" category,without I will add knowing the opinion of more than what, maybe .00000001%of Americas true opinion.I don't think like that AT ALL,and neither does the MAJORITY of America-I know alot of Britain and Canada does though-meaning if you don't agree with them your wrong-like you are trying to say here to me(as Im sure Intrepid will say also).

So now your putting me into ANOTHER category by saying Im pro-Bush-when I infact voted for KERRY,and do not like Bush at all and think he is the worst President in the history of America.So you not only prejudicially group my fellow Americans and myself into "with us or against us",but than proceed to group me into a "pro-Bush"category!!??!

The only reason I am going into detail here about yours and Intrepids comment is I know going to complaints won't do anything cause his comment is perfectly within the T and C,but like I said as a member of ATS,and ESSPECIALLY a MOD he should not have said that and you should not be backing him up,and trust me I am being nice in my response to this matter.Is it you have read my newest threads or looked at my signature and automatically put me into a "Bad American category"?.

I am done,I could say alot more but for the sake of ATS and going grossly of topic I will stop-as I feel my point has been made.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Im glad a fellow MOD came to Intrepids rescue-I want him to answer me,not you thank you.Your saying it's okay to group the ENTIRITY of America in the "with us or against us"category?

Again if you want to keep adding material to your Strawman here not much more I can say. I beleive its you now that are pushing the US vs. Them being applied to ALL Americans, Intrepid said no such thing.

Intrepid is the last guy that would need "rescuing"

his comment is perfectly within the T and C,but like I said as a member of ATS,and ESSPECIALLY a MOD he should not have said that and you should not be backing him up

Yes Intrepid is a Moderator but fist and foremost he is a member as am I and our thoughts, and opinions are just as relevant as anybody elses.

Cheers

While I agree with the purpose of the t&c, (eventhough I have on occaision let my emotional attachment to a particular argument get the best of my decorum), I feel that since a great majority of the topics on this board are of an adult nature, I feel no real obligation to "tone it down" for the younger members.
If you feel at the age of 12, (or 20 for that matter) that you have enough life experience or knowledge to comment intelligently on something as serious as, say, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for example, or 911 with anything more elaborate than "U.S.A. RULES!!!!", then your tender ears can handle it. If not, then perhaps try someplace a little lighter.
That being said, I'm not advocating any kind of discrimination. It is a great place to educate yourself, if you know little to nothing about certain topics.