FaithFreedom.org - Truth about Islam?

In all honesty, proving anything without a doubt wrong or right that happened over a thousand years ago is very iffy.

Especially if the only proof you have is in a holy book that is written cryptically. (Bible/Koran)

If you put the Bible and the Koran in the wind and rain, eventually they will become soaked and fall apart.

A pagan's Bible or Koran is the wind and rain.

(Cliché but it still works)

reply to post by WiseSheep


the way you sound on ATS, i wouldnt disagree with them, in walking away

for me if someone comes up to me and has a respectfull conversation about faiths then i would sit around talking, but if someone starts attacking my faith the best thing is to walk away then argue and drag my self down to their level,

www.geocities.com...

all the explenations u will want
also i have a program which reads the quran and gives the meaning at the bottom but i dought u will want that,

Bodrul, I'm starting to not see much more violence in the Koran than the Bible.

However I am still very unnerved by the sexism, and the hijab rule; it is ridiculous and somewhat unnecessary. Why must they cover themselves more than men? If both sexes had to wear it, I would not mind much.

It says man and women are equal before Allah, but gives them different roles; that is not true equality.

Does the Koran forbid women from having a job, etc?

Originally posted by bodrul
the way you sound on ATS, i wouldnt disagree with them, in walking away

There is no walking involved. They'd fly if they could.

Originally posted by bodrul
but if someone starts attacking my faith

I don't even know who you are, and yet love your soul enough to attempt to bring the knowledge of the creator to you, so that you may be set free.

Read on please...

Originally posted by bodrul
www.geocities.com...

I'll be using the translation you have here, since it suites you.

Originally posted by bodrul
all the explenations u will want
also i have a program which reads the quran and gives the meaning at the bottom but i dought u will want that,

Actually I think I might be interested, as I have a sudden interest in shining the light on more.



Anyway, here's a quick study I did. Quite interesting.

Surah 18:27
AND CONVEY [to the world] whatever has been revealed to thee of thy Sustainer's writ. There is nothing that could alter His words ;3s and thou canst find no refuge other than with Him.

Here the quran says the creator's word can not be altered.

Surah 5:68-69
(68) Say: "O followers of the Bible! You have no valid ground for your beliefs -unless you [truly] ob= serve the Torah and the Gospel, and all that has been bestowed from on high upon you by your Sustainer!"as

Yet all that has been bestowed from on high upon thee [O Prophet] by thy Sustainer is bound to make many of them yet more stubborn in their overweening arrogance and in their denial of the truth. But sorrow not over people who deny the truth: (69) for, verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Sabians,'6 and the Christians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.

Here the quran says I have no valid ground for my beliefs unless I truly observe the Torah and the Gospel, which I do.

Surah 4:163-156
BEHOLD, We have inspired thee [O Prophet] just as We inspired Noah and all the prophets after him - as We inspired Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and their descendants, including Jesus and Job, and Jonah, and Aaron, and Solomon; and as We vouchsafed unto David a book of divine wisdom;* (4: 164) and as [We inspired other] apostles whom We have mentioned to thee ere this,** as well as apostles whom We have not mentioned to thee; and as God spoke His word unto Moses: (4: 165) [We sent all these] apostles as heralds of glad tidings and as warners, so that men might have no excuse before God after [the coming of] these apostles: and God is indeed al­mighty, wise.

Now that as he translated it "book of divine wisdom" is the book of Psalms in the Old Testament. So here the quran makes the claim that the same entity who inspires this "prophet" inspired also the book of Psalms by the hand of King David.

Surah 2:34
And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!"*-they all prostrated themselves, save Ibiis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance: and thus he became one of those who deny the truth.**

Here we are told that the entity who inspired the quran told the angels to worship Adam. This directly contradicts the Torah in which the same book tells me I have no valid ground for my beliefs IF I DON'T FULLY OBSERVE IT . Furthermore, previously it has told me that the creator's word can't be altered, yet it has.

Now let's quote the Psalm 8 in which the same being who inspired the quran claimed also to inspire.

Psalm 8
1O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

3When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

7All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

8The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

9O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Now the same being who claimed to inspire the above also claimed to make the angels worship Adam.

Does anyone see just a slight problem with this?

reply to post by WiseSheep


nope, dont see a problem
have you read the explanations under all/most of the paragraphs you quoted
or just pick them out and add your own?

example

2: 34

And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!"*-they all prostrated themselves, save Ibiis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance: and thus he became one of those who deny the truth.**



* To show that, by virtue of his ability to think conceptually, man is superior in this respect even to the angels.



** For an explanation of the name of the Fallen Angel, see surah 7, note 10. The fact of this "rebellion", repeatedly stressed in the Qur'an, has led some of the commentators to the conclusion that he could not have been one of the angels, since these are incapable of sinning: "they do not bear themselves with false pride. .. and they do whatever they are bidden to do" (16: 49-50). As against this, other commentators point to the Qur'anic phrasing of God's command to the angels and of Iblis' refusal to obey, which makes it absolutely clear that at the time of that command he was indeed one of the heavenly host. Hence, we must assume that his "rebellion" has a purely symbolic significance and is, in reality, the outcome of a specific function assigned to him by God (see note 31 on 15 : 41).

i reccomend you read the explanations aswell
also Jews and christians are seen as the children of the book
but are seen as those who didnt take the message isaaslum (jesus) may rest be apon him. and just manipulated it,

yes i know i will get something back from you saying i am comdemed to hell and so on because unlike christians we dont believe jesus was the son of god but like all other prohpets and so on,

also the fly away, is that one of your jokes?

Kacen
Hijab depends where you are and if you follow islamic laws,
which i doubt you do so i wont concern you with that,

im going to stop now on this topic
as explaining things isnt my strong points
also dont have quote me like you have been doing, because you wont get any future response from, just for the record

[edit on 19-10-2007 by bodrul]

Originally posted by Kacen
It says man and women are equal before Allah, but gives them different roles; that is not true equality.

Does the Koran forbid women from having a job, etc?

No women can get jobs perhaps anywhere- well it was like that in Eygpt.
In the passport office, Photo shop, the hospital and flower shop just to name a few. But they still wear their head coverings. Which I think was a advantage to protect them fom the dry heat and the sunlight.

In June I could barely stand it because it was so hot.

Originally posted by bodrul
nope, dont see a problem

Try to do some more seeing.

Originally posted by bodrul
* To show that, by virtue of his ability to think conceptually, man is superior in this respect even to the angels.

Ahh, but Psalm 8:5 says we are made a little lower [chaser = could be translated as lacking].

You cannot see the fact that one cancels out the other. Something higher than us in rank wouldn't be forced to worship us.

Also It is written in the Torah:

Deuteronomy 10:20
Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.

Why would he contradict himself and make an angel do any different?


Excellent example of a divinely hardened heart here.

Originally posted by bodrul
also the fly away, is that one of your jokes?

No it's a fact. I've had them drop out of an interesting conversation at the drop of a hat. Almost like a mental trigger of some sort. I even had the pleasure of being called a devil by one, once.

Originally posted by Leyla
No women can get jobs perhaps anywhere- well it was like that in Eygpt.
In the passport office, Photo shop, the hospital and flower shop just to name a few. But they still wear their head coverings. Which I think was a advantage to protect them fom the dry heat and the sunlight.

In June I could barely stand it because it was so hot.

I must remind you that Egypt is liberal for a Muslim country.