Preserved dragon (model?)

If that's a model, it's a damn good one. Especially if it was made in 1890.

[Edited on 1-25-2004 by Jenkins]

Fer Frickin sakes, do some tests on it!

I read that stupid article and they are arguing whether it is real or not, TEST IT!

It looks too...perfect to be real. You know, it's exactly what somebody who wanted to make a dragon would do.

that looks quite remarkable for a fake, if it is a fake(probably!), i would still have thought the jar would have been opened and the dragon tested immediately
but then if it was declared a fake it would probably never be heard about!

Don't you think, that if this was from 1890...the "fluid" that is perserving the "dragon" would be a little bit murkier than what it is?

I can't tell, is that wax being used to seal it? If so..there would be no liquid, back then (1890) they would have used something like formaldehyde and it would have evaporated after 114 years.

www.funeralmuseum.org...

Intersting nonetheless. Unlike other myths and legends with nothing substancial to back it up, they have somethign physical that can be tested. So, like others have said, open the damn jar! Fake or not, it looks rather intriguing!

Lostinspace is correct; the only six-limbed things we know of are insects. It's a model or artistic sculpture of some kind.

Sculpture was not as neglected an art back then as it is now. I'm thinking it's a more modern fake, though; that the jar is the old part, but the sculpture is fairly modern since it looks like one of Michael Whelan's dragons from the Pern series (the eyes. Older versions of dragons had smaller eyes and not bee-like eyes.)

how can u say it wouldnt have four legs and two wings. Just by going on what animals are about today? its ALL BOLLOCKS!! no one knows what colour dinosaurs are or how they behaved and acted for example the programme walking with dinosaurs was all made up. u cant base animal instincts on what animals are about today. No one has ever seen a real life dragon so u cant say this look wrong or right. SCIENCE IS CRAP the bone that linked humans to chimps the closest was a FAKE!

Originally posted by NetStorm
Don't you think, that if this was from 1890...the "fluid" that is perserving the "dragon" would be a little bit murkier than what it is?

There are museaums around the world that have specimens that date back to the early 1800's. These jars are perfectly intact and not murky at all. I believe they use something called formalin*. It's amazing to see something that has been preserved for hundreds of years. It just depends on how well the person put it all together in the first place.

*
Formalin has remained the most commonly-used fixing agent in histology, and was blessed with an interesting introduction worth recalling. It was originally discovered by Butlerov in 1859, but only became a viable commercial proposition when in 1868 Hoffman successfully synthesised formalin from methanol. In 1892 a German firm approached an industrial chemist named Blum for formalin to be tested as a possible antiseptic agent. He noticed that while handling the formalin the skin on his fingertips became hardened, a very similar effect to the one alcohol had on tissue during fixation. Acting on this, Blum proceeded to test formalin as a potential histological fixative, and in 1893 sent his final results to the famous German histologist Carl Weigert, who gave it the teutonic equivalent of the 'thumbs up'. On the post-fixation decalcification of calcified tissue, the origins are not as well documented, but it is on record that the famous English microscopist, Quekett, described the use of hydrochloric acid for this purpose back in 1848.

From www.ibmsscience.org...

This is the only dragon I've ever seen:
www.homestarrunner.com...

my brother-in-law makes these kinds of unique items for a living, as well as motion picture special effects (hellraiser, etc). I'm saying a definite fake. Still looks pretty good though...also, by comparison to his REAL specimen collection the pigment looks a wee bit to pale, but hey, if was real, who knows what an unborn dragon "chick" would look like...

You can buy these things in novilty stores that is in the shape if a capsul/pill and when you put it in h2o it expands to become an animal toy of some sort.
Im not saying that is what this is, it just reminded me of those.

Back to Reptiles reproduction and sexing:

Some reptiles are live bearers and others lay eggs.
Egg Layers include:

All turtles, All tortoises, All crocodilians,
Some lizards: Iguanas, Water dragons, Geckos, Veiled chameleons, Panther chameleons, Monitors
Snakes: All pythons, Kingsnakes, Milksnakes, Rat snakes, Corn snakes

Live Bearers:
Some lizards:
Solomon Island skink, Blue-tongue skink, Shingle-backed skink
Some chameleons :
Jackson's chameleon
Some snakes:
All boas, All vipers, Garter snakes

Most reptiles lay eggs. The act of laying eggs is called oviposition. Reptiles that lay eggs are called oviparous. Some reptiles bear live young, and the term for this is viviparous. Technically, a female that lays eggs is said to be gravid when she is holding eggs inside of her. A female that gives birth to live young may correctly be called pregnant.

Here is how to tell the sex!

Male and female reptiles do not have external genitalia to help owners determine the sex of a herp. Males and females do possess different reproductive organs, however. The male possesses two testicles, housed inside the body. The male also has a copulatory organ, either a single penis (turtles and tortoises, crocodilians) or a pair of hemipenes (lizards, snakes) that can often be seen as two bulges behind the cloaca at the base of the tail. The penis or hemipenis is not connected to the urinary tract, and is strictly an organ of reproduction. Lizards and snakes can be sexed by the use of a probe that is inserted into the cloaca, directed towards the tail, off of the midline. The probe will travel farther in the male than in the female.

Here is a little on mating

While it would seem that reproduction is a natural event, without correct circumstances, such as a balanced diet and a suitable environment for egg-laying, eggs may not develop normally or be laid in a timely manner. Owners are often surprised to find that their single pet female lizard has developed eggs. A healthy adult female does NOT need the presence of a male to become gravid.

For fertilization, a male reptile inserts either one of his two hemipenes into the female's cloaca, or the single penis is inserted. Before actual copulation, the pair usually engages in some type of ritualized courtship. After copulation, sperm can be stored for up to six years, and this stored sperm can fertilize subsequent clutches without additional contact by a male.

Using the green iguana as an example, even without a male present to fertilize eggs, a healthy adult female may begin developing eggs. The process begins with the ovaries, where eggs are stored. The ovaries are located inside the body. Most green iguana females become mature when they are between two and four years of age. At that time, follicles begin developing in the ovaries. Each follicle is composed of a tiny egg and a sac filled with yolk. The follicles then detach and move into the oviducts where the egg white is added, and then a shell is placed around the yolk and white. The gravid female usually will not eat for three to six weeks prior to laying her eggs. It makes sense since her abdomen will be full of eggs in the oviducts, and the stomach is quite compressed, and there is little space for food in the stomach

www.exoticpetvet.net...

Hope some of this helps.
I find it fun to let myself believe that there is a possibility that they once might have existed. They probably didn't but then again there are those that believe that there was an Atlantis which was ruled by a Monitor, Vampires, Ailens, Bigfoot, Nessi, Chupa, Sandman, Boogieman, Ghosts and other stuff.
Anyway thats just me!
Laters
BAKED

The pic almost resembles an Iguana (sept for the wings).
I had one, what a cool pet!
They have a personality believe it or not.
Pizz them off and you will get the whip of a tail or bitten.
Their teeth are small but extremely sharp and can shread the nail on your finger no problem.
They Hiss when threatned and the skin on their chin sticks out and their body flattens to let you know they mean buisness.
Anyone ever have one?


Laters
BAKED

BTW...
this is not a pic of mine but I do have some pics if anyone wants to see it. Looks the same as this one.

I've actually got an iguana, she's 6 years old and 5 foot(ish) long, called wesley.... Don't ask...
Anyhoo, i'd like to believe that the dragon is real, but as has been stated throughout this thread, tests should be carried out on the specimen. And who's to say that evolution cancelled out six limbed animals because they weren't practical. If dragons ever existed, maybe they died out cos mother nature thought that a six-limbed animal was just too much. Imagine the confusion when tryin to take flight...

Fake or Real, I think it would be awesome to have.

Interesting article but Im still in the "Its deffinately a fake" camp.

It was quite popular in the in the 1800s to mix animal parts together to create "new" species to hoax or as curiosities. Even seen things like mumified mermaids, 6 inch people (fairy skeletons) etc. a quick Xray would reveal the truth and no need to take it out of the jar either.

mmmmmmmmm......pickled dragon.....*drools*

Heh, I don't see why the owners of that "thing" would want to have it tested. If someone tests it and discovers that it's a fake (which it most certainly is) all the mystique is gone.

You also lose income from curious patrons...

Originally posted by THENEO
Fer Frickin sakes, do some tests on it!

I read that stupid article and they are arguing whether it is real or not, TEST IT!

I know! They are saying it's amazing...but it has to be a hoax. Then they send it to be destroyed? I mean come on. Just test the damn thing. Looks pretty amazing to me.

If the dragon is a fake, how can you be sure that the STORY is not a fake as well.

So I made a nice rubber dragon, stick it in a bottle, then write a seemingly real story about how it came there.

There is no reason to believe it is an old dragon. The entire senario can be fake, the dragone AND the story.